I'm surprised there's no thread on Judah's outburst

[Melancer46]

I actually didn’t think my take on him not being an elite athlete was controversial. If he was an elite athlete, he’d be in the NBA.

He’s not. And not only that, his other attributes like dribbling and vision aren’t elite either.

He’s a very talented college player. No doubt. And he should be rewarded with an all conference nod. But we’re not talking a guy that’s putting us as a lock for a top four NCAAT seed.

Again, I said he should have tried to model his game after Jeff Teague. That was supposed to be a compliment. But Judah isn’t close to Jeff Teague. Jeff Teague made a jump between frosh and soon year and then had an heckuva nba career.

Givony had Judah as the 18th best PG prospect. He has him last pick of the 2025 draft now and that is tenuous at best.

Judah would 100% be gone to the nba if he was an elite athlete.

Judah's a good athlete. Definitely not elite. He does have a knack for getting into the lane a ton, but I think it's mostly due to good athleticism and good salesmanship with his moves. He's very smart about how to manipulate his defender to get a step on them.

I think it's understandable for some to think he's an elite athlete after some of the guards that we've watched play for us in recent years.

 

[TheCusian]

I’m not measuring him against our guards. I’m measuring him against using the term elite. He does not have elite speed. He does not have elite leaping ability. He is agile. He has a quick first step against college guards.

But elite??? Where it’s consider it upper end of potential nba traits? No.

Now, that’s fine for college to an extent. But he’s also not an elite dribbler and doesn’t have elite vision.

He’s a very talented player at the college level. No doubt.

But his best case, and it’s a moonshot at this point, is to model himself after Jeff Teague.

That’s who he is. He is not an elite athlete.

whatever athletic ability that allows him to get into the lane and fouled at the highest clip for a guard in the P5 (100th percentile) is sure as hell elite

The problem with all of these arguments is that "elite" is a moving target and subject to opinion

 

[dollarbill44]

It was inspired by the true story of Bob Knight and nobody will convince me otherwise. Too many parallels.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I will drop it as it is going nowhere, but stuff like this just boggles my mind. How do we say it is our best player that is not taking us there rather than the roster as a whole? How is the guy second in scoring in the ACC the reason we are not getting there? Feel like I am on a different planet right now. You "get there" by building a stronger depth of talent, not showing your best players the door and replacing them with portal adds that may or may not be better. I agree with you and everyone else I am getting into it with on like 95% of things. Will drop it now.

Maliq is still our best player. Two ends of the floor

 

[MikeSU02]

whatever athletic ability that allows him to get into the lane and fouled at the highest clip for a guard in the P5 (100th percentile) is sure as hell elite

The problem with all of these arguments is that "elite" is a moving target and subject to opinion

Elite gets you into the nba.

That’s why it’s the highest level.

 

[Nicknack]

Lots of assumptions there.

What's the assumption? Just making some observations.

 

[Scooch]

I guess I don't understand why you categorize it as "strange."

If anything, the incident itself was bizarre -- if for no other reason than Judah's seemingly heated exchange with his head coach, in the middle of the game / on the court / on national TV [even setting the eventual "T" result aside].

Why would it be "dumb" to discuss such an unusual in-game situation?

Reading the first page of this thread, it just struck me that the OP was pretext to have the “Judah needs to move on” conversation again. Which is what it quickly became.

Which is fine if that’s what people want to talk about, obviously. I’m not the conversation police.

It’s not a big deal. Just struck me a strange given that we’re a day away from our biggest regular season game in ages. That’s all. No biggee.

 

[br801]

What's the assumption? Just making some observations.

You pretty much suggested Judah's behavior has infected his teammates. That's not an observation. Unless you have insider knowledge, that's one hell of an assumption.

 

[Nicknack]

You pretty much suggested Judah's behavior has infected his teammates. That's not an observation. Unless you have insider knowledge, that's one hell of an assumption.

Go back and re-read. That's not at all what I said. I simply said that players were watching, as they obviously were (fact). I also said players seeing another player get away with bad attitude/behavior is how it can spread on a team. I didn't say it was happening on our team, I have no idea. But it most certainly can lead to this, which was the point I made.

 

[Millhouse]

How many games do we win without Judah this season? Who puts the ball in the hoop? Who draws the top defender and still produces enough? We play 6 guys basically. Two can't shoot. Another two can't play defense. No center, which forces our other top player out of position. We NEED Judah!

If he goes, I do think they should get someone else and not go 4 on 5

 

[Millhouse]

whatever athletic ability that allows him to get into the lane and fouled at the highest clip for a guard in the P5 (100th percentile) is sure as hell elite

The problem with all of these arguments is that "elite" is a moving target and subject to opinion

If other teams actually want their pg to get fouled in the lane that much, sure

 

[AlaskaSU]

It is reasonable to assume that his beef was about not getting the call. Maybe the ref needed that wakeup call from Judah. More fouls were called afterwards. He might also try some humor; I need a timeout to buy life insurance!, etc.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

You are wrong in my case.

He's easily a top 2 player for our team. He's also the reason we are barely on the bubble this year both positively and negatively.

My case in him not coming back is pretty easy. He went through NBA Draft, was told specifically what he needed to improve at, and proceeded to do the opposite or not improve at all.

3 pt percent and eFG% is almost the exact same, WORST Ast% and TO%, lower BPM

He's played very similar to last year. I simply don't see him changing his game and, imo, his game (as he currently plays) has a ceiling.

You are correct in his stats being basically the same over the last 2 seasons. Those statistics currently equate to the following rankings in the ACC for the 2023-24 season:

2nd in PPG
4th in Assists per game (8th in Ast%)
2nd in Steals per game
2nd in points produced
1st in FTA and FTM
14th in FG%
14th in PER

Also of note, his BPM went down .3 between seasons and is still a + box number, his EFG% is Top 20 in the ACC this season (despite the awful 3 point shooting) and his TO% was up 1.3 over 100 possessions.

Like I said previously, he can improve upon parts of his game as most all of the players in college can but to think that he's not a high-level PG in college basketball and can be easily replaced through the portal/or on the roster is wrong imo.

And even if he has a "ceiling" that ceiling is going to be a 1st or 2nd team all-conference player. Look at history of this program since joining the ACC to see how easy that is to replace.

 

[djcon57]

You are correct in his stats being basically the same over the last 2 seasons. Those statistics currently equate to the following rankings in the ACC for the 2023-24 season:

2nd in PPG
4th in Assists per game (8th in Ast%)
2nd in Steals per game
2nd in points produced
1st in FTA and FTM
14th in FG%
14th in PER

Also of note, his BPM went down .3 between seasons and is still a + box number, his EFG% is Top 20 in the ACC this season (despite the awful 3 point shooting) and his TO% was up 1.3 over 100 possessions.

Like I said previously, he can improve upon parts of his game as most all of the players in college can but to think that he's not a high-level PG in college basketball and can be easily replaced through the portal/or on the roster is wrong imo.

And even if he has a "ceiling" that ceiling is going to be a 1st or 2nd team all-conference player. Look at history of this program since joining the ACC to see how easy that is to replace.

All fair points. We'll see what the result is.

 

[MikeSU02]

You are correct in his stats being basically the same over the last 2 seasons. Those statistics currently equate to the following rankings in the ACC for the 2023-24 season:

2nd in PPG
4th in Assists per game (8th in Ast%)
2nd in Steals per game
2nd in points produced
1st in FTA and FTM
14th in FG%
14th in PER

Also of note, his BPM went down .3 between seasons and is still a + box number, his EFG% is Top 20 in the ACC this season (despite the awful 3 point shooting) and his TO% was up 1.3 over 100 possessions.

Like I said previously, he can improve upon parts of his game as most all of the players in college can but to think that he's not a high-level PG in college basketball and can be easily replaced through the portal/or on the roster is wrong imo.

And even if he has a "ceiling" that ceiling is going to be a 1st or 2nd team all-conference player. Look at history of this program since joining the ACC to see how easy that is to replace.

Fair argument. Appreciate it. Two things:

1) he can’t control his physical limitations

2) what he can control and needs to improve on, he didn’t this year, so you’re banking on him becoming someone else next year.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Try reffing a basketball game sometime…any level. Then tell me how easy it is.

If you can't do it, then don't pretend you can and then get paid for it anyway. If it were easy we would all be doing it. I tried it and it's hard. So I don't go out and screw things up because I have an ego. By the time you are reffing college ball you should be damned good at it.

 

[SWC75]

I think a sideline in sports is like a ship in a storm. Nothing is whispered. I wouldn't conclude that relationships are being severed.