LeMoyne College exploring move to D1

[SWC75]

D-2? Most of them are from D-3. They're not competitive in FCS football, so ... They're not hoping to be spoilers; that's just a side benefit. They're anticipating getting the large checks from the CBS TV money to fund their athletic programs. That's why they moved up in the first place. That's why the competition restrictions are placed on movers.

Folks that say that the restrictions are unfair, etc., are thinking like fans. They're not thinking like ADs who have to protect the investment their schools have made in athletics. Or like the NCAA which is trying to preserve the competitiveness of D-2 and D-3.

That pretty much defines the term "hangers-on".

 

[shandeezy7]

That pretty much defines the term "hangers-on".

So they shouldn't take advantage of the financial opportunity presented to them? College athletics is headed toward major upheaval in the next 20 years anyway, so why not take advantage of what's available now while it still is?

 

[TexanMark]

Yeah I think he meant that JMU was very good last year (8-3) and would have otherwise made a bowl game if not for the stupid rule making them sit out.

It’s like if you invited over a new friend for a dinner party but when it was time for dessert told them they don’t get any because they’re new to the group.

Well we do that to newbies to the SyraCruz Tailgate but with the good beer.

Is that wrong?

 

[TexanMark]

Not to mention, the revenue that can be brought in from "buy games." Le Moyne playing at Syracuse in an exhibition game is lucky if they get paid $10,000 for the game. "Buy games" for D1 opponents are closer to $100,000. That's a major difference, especially when you're playing 3 or 4 of those per year.

I bet LeMoyne gets less...virtually no travel expenses

 

[SWC75]

So they shouldn't take advantage of the financial opportunity presented to them? College athletics is headed toward major upheaval in the next 20 years anyway, so why not take advantage of what's available now while it still is?

The purpose of divisions is to give everyone a shot at a title they can win. Do you want Canelo Alvarez to fight Tyson Fury?

 

[Lord Ashby]

The NCAA wants to keep as many schools in the other Divs as possible because of the payout money involved (more mouths to feed) and to keep competitiveness in those divisions. What they're saying is, "You're welcome to change, but you and your conference won't get any extra money for a while."

The NEC's rule is an attempt to maintain a stable membership.

LeMoyne is not another mouth to feed at the dinner party as they're replacing St Francis Brooklyn which announced it was cutting all athletic programs. The NEC needed another program and LeMoyne stepped up and is willing to make the investments needed. The NEC is at risk of folding as a conference if someone else takes a similar path as St Francis, Brooklyn or if someone bolts for greener pastures.

 

[shandeezy7]

I bet LeMoyne gets less...virtually no travel expenses

Sure, but they aren't limited to only playing Syracuse as a buy game.

 

[shandeezy7]

The purpose of divisions is to give everyone a shot at a title they can win. Do you want Canelo Alvarez to fight Tyson Fury?

In the last 30 years, a total of 49 programs have made the Final Four. Only 39 of those are from the Power 6 conferences. Should Division 1 only consist of around 50 teams? They are the only ones competing for a title. Syracuse football isn't competing for a title. Should they be relegated to a lower division?

 

[TexanMark]

Sure, but they aren't limited to only playing Syracuse as a buy game.

Are you suggesting LeMoyne would host?

Or do you mean they'll take $$ from Yukon, Binghamton and St Bona?

 

[Scooch]

The purpose of divisions is to give everyone a shot at a title they can win. Do you want Canelo Alvarez to fight Tyson Fury?

Is it? I thought the purpose of divisions was for schools to align with others who have like-minded views on the importance of athletics.

There's a lot of D3 schools that have the financial resources to be D1, but they don't want to be, typically for financial and cultural reasons. I'm not sure that most D3 schools are D3 for the championship opportunties.

 

[TexanMark]

Is it? I thought the purpose of divisions was for schools to align with others who have like-minded views on the importance of athletics.

There's a lot of D3 schools that have the financial resources to be D1, but they don't want to be, typically for financial and cultural reasons. I'm not sure that most D3 schools are D3 for the championship opportunties.

NYU could be a power in hoops for sure.

 

[TexanMark]

Whats their gym like? Would they try and play home BB games at the War Mamorial?

Basically a large HS gym...maybe 2000 capacity

If it warrants I could see a few games going downtown

 

[shandeezy7]

Are you suggesting LeMoyne would host?

No I'm suggesting Le Moyne could play at any other P5 school as a buy game where they would be compensated well.

 

[TexanMark]

No I'm suggesting Le Moyne could play at any other P5 school as a buy game where they would be compensated well.

Yeah I reread and edited my comment...lol then saw your reply

 

[shandeezy7]

Basically a large HS gym...maybe 2000 capacity

If it warrants I could see a few games going downtown

Yeah there's room to add maybe a couple hundred more seats, but it's pretty much maxed out around 2,000. Not totally out of line with other schools on the same level. Canisius' gym holds 2,100. Colgate holds 1,750. FDU holds 1,800. Hell, FAU just made the Final Four from their huge 2,900 seat arena.

 

[SWC75]

In the last 30 years, a total of 49 programs have made the Final Four. Only 39 of those are from the Power 6 conferences. Should Division 1 only consist of around 50 teams? They are the only ones competing for a title. Syracuse football isn't competing for a title. Should they be relegated to a lower division?

I think the success rate of conferences in the tournament should be considered in deciding what division they are in. And if super conferences are created, I expect SU would join with other "left behinds to form a new division where they all might have a shot at a championship.

 

[SWC75]

Is it? I thought the purpose of divisions was for schools to align with others who have like-minded views on the importance of athletics.

There's a lot of D3 schools that have the financial resources to be D1, but they don't want to be, typically for financial and cultural reasons. I'm not sure that most D3 schools are D3 for the championship opportunities.

Yes it is. That's why they hold the championships. When the NCAA split into divisions in 1973, they held a championship tournament for Divisions 2 & 3. The only reason they didn't do it for the Division 1 was the bowls. They created 1AA so that schools that clung to D-1 status even though they could never win a championship there would have a championship they could win. And the reason they want to keep teams in D2 and D3 is to keep those divisions alive so those schools would have championships they could win.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think the success rate of conferences in the tournament should be considered in deciding what division they are in. And if super conferences are created, I expect SU would join with other "left behinds to form a new division where they all might have a shot at a championship.

As a Le Moyne grad, I'd rather see the basketball team win a conference championship and win one game in the NCAA tournament than win a D2 or D3 championship.

 

[RandygoCuse]

I think the success rate of conferences in the tournament should be considered in deciding what division they are in. And if super conferences are created, I expect SU would join with other "left behinds to form a new division where they all might have a shot at a championship.

I'd love to see a "Premier" division - For football, all the Power 5 schools and a few select others that could compete. For basketball, all the major conferences and a few other select schools. The ones that simply can't compete with them shouldn't have to.

 

[MSOrange]

As a Le Moyne grad, I'd rather see the basketball team win a conference championship and win one game in the NCAA tournament than win a D2 or D3 championship.

Same with me when Mercer beat Duke.

 

[Orangezoo]

We need Lemoyne to be an SU minor league team...good feeder pool for potential local gems to perfect their craft to portal down the road or a nice landing spot for any projects that should step down.

 

[two3zone]

We need Lemoyne to be an SU minor league team...good feeder pool for potential local gems to perfect their craft to portal down the road or a nice landing spot for any projects that should step down.

Ehhh, it’ll just be guys who probably have no business playing for us yet people around here will act like the guy is the next melo.

 

[Scooch]

Yes it is. That's why they hold the championships. When the NCAA split into divisions in 1973, they held a championship tournament for Divisions 2 & 3. The only reason they didn't do it for the Division 1 was the bowls. They created 1AA so that schools that clung to D-1 status even though they could never win a championship there would have a championship they could win. And the reason they want to keep teams in D2 and D3 is to keep those divisions alive so those schools would have championships they could win.

I just don’t thinks that’s the calculus of how schools associate themselves in 2023. I’m not saying the athletes competing at D2 and D3 aren’t trying to win. But the reason, say, Tufts competes at D3 instead of D1 isn’t because their cross country team can win a D3 title. It’s because they don’t want to fund their athletics program at a D1 level, and culturally they don’t want to be a D1 sports school.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If you're talking other D2 programs, then I could get it. But Le Moyne lax has had a roster ripe for picking by D1 programs for 15+ years now and there hasn't been much attrition. Maybe the prospect of not being able to compete for titles pushes some out, but I think there will be just as many that will be excited to play a schedule against the likes of possibly Syracuse, Colgate, Albany, Cornell, Army, etc. and get the honor of saying they are a Division I athlete (especially for the guys that weren't recruited as D1 athletes).

Not to be that guy but while Lemoyne has a really good D2 team they don't have many guys who are ready to play at the Power D1 level ie ACC, B10, and IVY. There's a reason why when SU and Lemoyne used to scrimmage in the pre-season SU's starters were out by the 2nd quarter if they played at all.

 

[Orangezoo]

Ehhh, it’ll just be guys who probably have no business playing for us yet people around here will act like the guy is the next melo.

Nah- we are moving past that it appears the way Red is attacking 2024 so far. If Lemoyne gets a really good one though...