Mick Cronin says...

[orange79]

Just end this reallignment talk and force ND's hand we will end up in the 4th super-conference anyway which is better than where we are now.

And just how do you intend to 'force ND's hand"?

 

[DNABB5]

And just how do you intend to 'force ND's hand"?

That's my point. The ACC can't.

 

[Alsacs]

And just how do you intend to 'force ND's hand"?

Give them an ultimatum either full membership or go take your olympic teams to Lubbock, Ames, Waco, Stillwater, Manhatten, Lawrence, Norman, Ft. Worth, Morgantown, and Austin. I am sick of ND they are the root of all this. If they would have been the B1G 12th team in 1999 none of this stuff would have ever happened IMO. The SEC and B1G react to each other, I don't think the B1G goes beyond 12 unless the SEC did as well.

 

[orange79]

That's my point. The ACC can't.

Bingo

 

[orange79]

Give them an ultimatum either full membership or go take your olympic teams to Lubbock, Ames, Waco, Stillwater, Manhatten, Lawrence, Norman, Ft. Worth, Morgantown, and Austin. I am sick of ND they are the root of all this. If they would have been the B1G 12th team in 1999 none of this stuff would have ever happened IMO. The SEC and B1G react to each other, I don't think the B1G goes beyond 12 unless the SEC did as well.

Well, that would be rather silly. It would kill any negotiations the ACC currently has with ESPN, because the WWL opened up the contract again because ND came in for everything but FB. Would they take their Olympics to the Big XII? Probably not. Would they take them to the A-10, which has quietly built themselves a nice little league? Quite possibly. They have more options than just the Big XII.

 

[All4SU]

If They HAVE to go 16, and one is not ND, then I say add l'ville, and Uconn, then go and offer WVU.

 

[DNABB5]

If They HAVE to go 16, and one is not ND, then I say add l'ville, and Uconn, then go and offer WVU.

I do kind of miss those toothless inbred moonshine loving bastards.

Didn't they have that Barbi poster going for them a long time ago too?

 

[kingottoiii]

If the ACC wanted to, they could have the following divisions:

FSU, Miami, UVA, UNC, Duke, BC
Clemson, GA Tech, VT, NC St, Wake, SU

Then rotate which division Pitt is in every year. If you have Pitt and ND play every year and not count it as a conference game but count the ND games for everyone else, then everyone plays 8 ACC games. I would prefer this to adding crap from the Big East.

 

[KaiserUEO]

It would also be admitting a HUGE mistake by not taking WV. If you are willing to take crappy schools like UL and Cincy then why was WV not taken again? At least they are an Eastern school. Having both UL and Cincy in the ACC would just be throwing out the entire set of values the ACC has had its entire existence. Why? What do they add exactly? And if more schools are leaving then why not USF or UCF? Because FSU ain't sticking around.

I'll say it again...the failure was not adding rutgers when ND did its little dance.

Go to 15 RIGHT THEN. Lock up jersey, NYC and Atlantic Coast. If any(Maryland) defects, u can choose between academics (storz) or athletics (ville) and still wait on ND. That was the doomsday decision.

Now we get bigeast part duh.

 

[Alsacs]

I'll say it again...the failure was not adding rutgers when ND did its little dance.

Go to 15 RIGHT THEN. Lock up jersey, NYC and Atlantic Coast. If any(Maryland) defects, u can choose between academics (storz) or athletics (ville) and still wait on ND. That was the doomsday decision.

Now we get bigeast part duh.

Sadly, your right but I still think the B1G could gotten RU to go TCU and go from the BE-ACC-B1G before playing a game in the ACC.

 

[Townie72]

I'll say it again...the failure was not adding rutgers when ND did its little dance.

Go to 15 RIGHT THEN. Lock up jersey, NYC and Atlantic Coast. If any(Maryland) defects, u can choose between academics (storz) or athletics (ville) and still wait on ND. That was the doomsday decision.

Now we get bigeast part duh.

How is it that adding RU "locks up" NY//NJ? They have been in the Big East for 20+ years and I haven't noticed any locking up of anything.

Really. Please explain to me how Rutgers could have such low (demonstrated and proven over 20 years) impact and value to the Big East but it is now going to be valuable to the ACC?

Rutgers value to the Big Ten is based on the BTN and local cable subscribers. Since the ACC doesn't have a similar network than RU's value was based on the school, the athletic program, the fan base, etc and RU was found wanting.

 

[GoSU96]

You don't go to 16 just to say you were first. The ACC is better off at 13 than 16 if those are your choices. Why would FSU want to be in a league with Louisville, UConn, and Cincy. That is the Big East.

Let's see, the Big10 invites Rutgers and Maryland and that is a killer move against the ACC, and yet FSU and Clemson are going to leave because three athletic programs all better than Maryland join. Why would FSU and Clemson make decisions based on who's in the conference when everyone else is chasing dollars?

And you go 16 if ESPN is going to bankroll you as a stalking horse against the Big12 and Fox and they think it's a good idea.

 

[chakka3421]

So much fear on this board. I was lurking over on some B12 sites - 2 points:
1. They fear Pac12 expansion and provide scenarios of what teams would be taken to get to 16 and who would add the most value in added cable subscriptions and recruiting grounds.
2. They hate UTexas as much as we hate ND screwing the BE and now the ACC because the GOR that was signed is not as ironclad as the PAC12, B1G & SEC GORs. It left out tier 3 rights so UTexas could keep its LHN and other loopholes exist like buyouts that favor you know who - UTexas!

 

[Alsacs]

So much fear on this board. I was lurking over on some B12 sites - 2 points:
1. They fear Pac12 expansion and provide scenarios of what teams would be taken to get to 16 and who would add the most value in added cable subscriptions and recruiting grounds.
2. They hate UTexas as much as we hate ND screwing the BE and now the ACC because the GOR that was signed is not as ironclad as the PAC12, B1G & SEC GORs. It left out tier 3 rights so UTexas could keep its LHN and other loopholes exist like buyouts that favor you know who - UTexas!

I would give Texas WHATEVER the hell they wanted within reason to be a full member of the ACC. Whatever they wanted as long as they would play a FULL ACC football schedule. I hate ND because they have their cake and eat it too. Texas plays @Iowa State and @Kansas State. Notre Dame won't play @UConn or @Syracuse, but they will play @Boston College.

 

[chakka3421]

Many say on some of these B12 forums that UTexas has a lot of alums that live more in western states than eastern states and also would give them a huge recruiting advantages over SEC teams meaning California. The PAC12 then becomes the de facto largest conference in terms of cable subscribers in the nation with UTexas & company. To me UTexas to PAC12 makes a whole lot more sense as the next move in this madness - remember the PAC12 already almost brokered the deal twice - and it looks like UTexas & Oklahoma left loopholes to get them out with little monetary damage (tier 3 was left out of GOR is my understanding).

 

[Alsacs]

Many say on some of these B12 forums that UTexas has a lot of alums that live more in western states than eastern states and also would give them a huge recruiting advantages over SEC teams meaning California. The PAC12 then becomes the de facto largest conference in terms of cable subscribers in the nation with UTexas & company. To me UTexas to PAC12 makes a whole lot more sense as the next move in this madness - remember the PAC12 already almost brokered the deal twice - and it looks like UTexas & Oklahoma left loopholes to get them out with little monetary damage (tier 3 was left out of GOR is my understanding).

Texas can't head west without ESPN's permission. LHN is owned by UT and ESPN, and Pac-12 won't let them keep it. That is why they didn't go the first time.

 

[chakka3421]

Alsacs - ok what is the one common denominator that created all of the mess we are currently in - ESPN!

1. ESPN was going to let the BE die - maybe due to turning down that contract from before that caused Pitt, Syr and WMU to bolt
2. ESPN wanted a successful LHN similar to ND - LHN is broke and going nowhere and with aTm offering a SEC alternative I think it changes the game for people living in Texas. UT is a Texas brand, ND is a national brand
3. ESPN got blindsided by the FOX move into ACC territory
4. ESPN simply got outFOXed.

Who is to stop the BTN from creating its own eastern conference by destabilizing the ACC - Penn St, Rutgers, Maryland, UConn, UVA, UNC, GT, ND and 4 more teams creating its own 12 team conference on the FOX/BTN network. Then the original BTN teams go back to being a 12 team mid west conference. In one fell swoop, FOX could own both the north and eastern half of the US. Checkmate FOX.

 

[Alsacs]

Not sure, I understand your 2nd paragraph, but I agree with your first paragraph. However, Texas can't head west to the Pac-12 without giving up the LHN. ESPN has invested capital into the LHN that they won't simply eat to let Texas get into the Pac-12 portoflio and ESPN giving the LHN creditability to be the regional Pac-12 network for Texas. ESPN will want Texas to stay where they are I believe.

 

[chakka3421]

Ok this is my last post on conf madness and I didn't want to start a new one.

I don't think the SEC or B1G needs to do a thing anytime soon. They believe they can get who they want at anytime. I think they sit tight to see if the Pac12 expands East to pick up 2 teams to go to 14 or 4 to 16 destabilizing the B12. They also will sit tight to see if the ACC strengthens its conference deal with ESPN or not. If not, the ACC destabilizes further.

I keep saying the prize for the PAC12 is to get UTexas. Far as I can tell, UT wants to be associated with the higher learning institutions of the PAC12 and not with too many of the schools in the SEC.

The real question is this - where does the PAC12 go to get it next 4 teams?

 

[kingottoiii]

I am starting to think it will be just UConn. Thinking logically UConn vs Louisville should not be a deal breaker for FSU. I can't see that being a reason to go to the B12. If I am them that wouldn't matter as much to me as switching Clemson and Miami in the divisions. If I am FSU I want the 2nd best FB program on the other side so my path is easier to the ACC CG. Having to play GA Tech this year in the ACC CG would piss me off more than adding UConn.

Also thinking logically the one school that holds the ACC together is not FSU, but UNC. Just about every school is tied to what UNC does. So isn't the best thing for the ACC to add the school UNC wants? Adding Louisville could piss off UNC. Adding Louisville and Cincy would surely piss off UNC. UNC is snobby school. They would rather go B1G with UVA/Duke than be associated with schools like Louisville and Cincy. So isn't there a greater risk in not doing what UNC wants?

UNC is the ACC. The league will stay together as long as UNC wants it to. They like being the big dog and I am sure the North Carolina economy likes having the ACCT and ACC CG in the state. That is why I do not see UNC leaving. And why I do not see NC St leaving. Which means Duke and Wake are staying. And UVA who wants to be with UNC stays, which means VT stays. GA Tech also wants to be with UNC so they stay. SU and BC are not going anywhere. So you have 9 of 13 schools that are dependent on what UNC wants. Pitt, Miami, and Clemson prefer to be with UNC but I could see them leaving to the B12 if FSU did. I could see FSU leaving for the SEC but not for the slight $ increase in the B12. Especially with the prospect (not matter how slim) of ND one day joining the ACC.

So in reality UNC is the school we need to keep happy. The B1G and SEC cannot expand as long as UNC is happy. The B12 cannot expand unless the ACC is blown up. So that tells me it is UConn as #14 and FSU will be given preference as to how the new divisions are made up.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

CBS is reporting that the ACC will be adding one school by Tuesday. I guess this doesn't preclude taking more in the future -- near or far -- but it means a cap at 14 teams for now. The question then becomes: Louisville or UCONN?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Okay, here's a link: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ng-expansion-but-16-teams-unlikely-per-source

Doesn't specify a specific week. Just says an invite might come this week. It has the Ville and UCONN boards stirred up.

 

[Alsacs]

I am starting to think it will be just UConn. Thinking logically UConn vs Louisville should not be a deal breaker for FSU. I can't see that being a reason to go to the B12. If I am them that wouldn't matter as much to me as switching Clemson and Miami in the divisions. If I am FSU I want the 2nd best FB program on the other side so my path is easier to the ACC CG. Having to play GA Tech this year in the ACC CG would piss me off more than adding UConn.

Also thinking logically the one school that holds the ACC together is not FSU, but UNC. Just about every school is tied to what UNC does. So isn't the best thing for the ACC to add the school UNC wants? Adding Louisville could piss off UNC. Adding Louisville and Cincy would surely piss off UNC. UNC is snobby school. They would rather go B1G with UVA/Duke than be associated with schools like Louisville and Cincy. So isn't there a greater risk in not doing what UNC wants?

UNC is the ACC. The league will stay together as long as UNC wants it to. They like being the big dog and I am sure the North Carolina economy likes having the ACCT and ACC CG in the state. That is why I do not see UNC leaving. And why I do not see NC St leaving. Which means Duke and Wake are staying. And UVA who wants to be with UNC stays, which means VT stays. GA Tech also wants to be with UNC so they stay. SU and BC are not going anywhere. So you have 9 of 13 schools that are dependent on what UNC wants. Pitt, Miami, and Clemson prefer to be with UNC but I could see them leaving to the B12 if FSU did. I could see FSU leaving for the SEC but not for the slight $ increase in the B12. Especially with the prospect (not matter how slim) of ND one day joining the ACC.

So in reality UNC is the school we need to keep happy. The B1G and SEC cannot expand as long as UNC is happy. The B12 cannot expand unless the ACC is blown up. So that tells me it is UConn as #14 and FSU will be given preference as to how the new divisions are made up.

Good post, but the ACC needs to feed FSU's ego a little.

 

[Toga]

We need some good strategery.

 

[orange79]

I am starting to think it will be just UConn. Thinking logically UConn vs Louisville should not be a deal breaker for FSU. I can't see that being a reason to go to the B12. If I am them that wouldn't matter as much to me as switching Clemson and Miami in the divisions. If I am FSU I want the 2nd best FB program on the other side so my path is easier to the ACC CG. Having to play GA Tech this year in the ACC CG would piss me off more than adding UConn.

Also thinking logically the one school that holds the ACC together is not FSU, but UNC. Just about every school is tied to what UNC does. So isn't the best thing for the ACC to add the school UNC wants? Adding Louisville could piss off UNC. Adding Louisville and Cincy would surely piss off UNC. UNC is snobby school. They would rather go B1G with UVA/Duke than be associated with schools like Louisville and Cincy. So isn't there a greater risk in not doing what UNC wants?

UNC is the ACC. The league will stay together as long as UNC wants it to. They like being the big dog and I am sure the North Carolina economy likes having the ACCT and ACC CG in the state. That is why I do not see UNC leaving. And why I do not see NC St leaving. Which means Duke and Wake are staying. And UVA who wants to be with UNC stays, which means VT stays. GA Tech also wants to be with UNC so they stay. SU and BC are not going anywhere. So you have 9 of 13 schools that are dependent on what UNC wants. Pitt, Miami, and Clemson prefer to be with UNC but I could see them leaving to the B12 if FSU did. I could see FSU leaving for the SEC but not for the slight $ increase in the B12. Especially with the prospect (not matter how slim) of ND one day joining the ACC.

So in reality UNC is the school we need to keep happy. The B1G and SEC cannot expand as long as UNC is happy. The B12 cannot expand unless the ACC is blown up. So that tells me it is UConn as #14 and FSU will be given preference as to how the new divisions are made up.

This makes a lot of sense. So, that means it can't possibly happen.