Mock NBA Draft by Chris Mannix CNNSI has Ennis projected to go to | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Mock NBA Draft by Chris Mannix CNNSI has Ennis projected to go to

RF2044 said:
Awesome--so every 5-6 years, one player who's drafted in the second round fits that criteria. Awesome.

Think about what you are saying, and how this apparently relates to the point people are trying to make about Grant. McRoberts was a very highly rated recruit, went to Duke, had some pretty good numbers [better than Grant], went pro after his sophomore season... and got drafted in the second round.

He was a better collegiate player than grant, and 3 inches taller, with better numbers, and went in the second round. That shouldn't be the exemplar people are pointing toward as the model a player like Grant--who is a tweener and lacks refinement, and is quite a bit shorter than, by the way--should follow.

That's why he's an outlier, as an example.
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The difference between the two is this McRoberts left because he didn't like playing at Duke. He left early to get away and was never projected to go high. Grant is projected to be a solid first round draft pick and Chad Ford has him in his mock lottery right now. If Grant wasn't a first round pick he wouldn't have left.
 
RF2044 said:
Outstanding--so every 5-6 years, one player who's drafted in the second round fits that criteria. Awesome percentage.

Think about what you are saying, and how this apparently relates to the point people are trying to make about Grant. McRoberts was a very highly rated recruit, went to Duke, had some pretty good numbers [better than Grant], went pro after his sophomore season... and got drafted in the second round.

He was a better collegiate player than grant, and 3 inches taller, with better numbers, and went in the second round. That shouldn't be the exemplar people are pointing toward as the model a player like Grant--who is a tweener and lacks refinement, and is quite a bit shorter than, by the way--should follow.

That's why he's an outlier, as an example.
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http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/19/4068419/former-duke-star-josh-mcroberts.html

McRoberts' skills are an acquired taste. There's nothing SportsCenter-flashy about what he does, so he's played for five NBA franchises since going in the second round of the 2007 draft to Portland.

(An aside on his two seasons at Duke: McRoberts said playing for Mike Krzyzewski "wasn't the best fit for me, that's all I'll say ... I probably stayed longer than I should have.")

McRoberts fell to the 2nd round because Duke was a bad fit for him and he suffered in the draft as a result.
 
Alsacs said:
The difference between the two is this McRoberts left because he didn't like playing at Duke. He left early to get away and was never projected to go high. Grant is projected to be a solid first round draft pick and Chad Ford has him in his mock lottery right now. If Grant wasn't a first round pick he wouldn't have left.
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Here's something to chew on: Dante Green was also projected to be a much higher first round pick than where he ended up, and got intel to support that belief.

I pray to christ that Grant gets drafted high. Chad Ford / ESPN's mock draft simulator are about on par with nbadraft.net, in terms of accuracy at this point in the game. If you guys had seem the scouting report on Grant that I'd seen, you would be singing a different tune.

I wish him nothing but the best. Love Jerami. I'm not even saying he's making a "bad" decision, I just don't think that him going in the lottery is a sure thing--at all.
 
Alsacs said:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/19/4068419/former-duke-star-josh-mcroberts.html
McRoberts' skills are an acquired taste. There's nothing SportsCenter-flashy about what he does, so he's played for five NBA franchises since going in the second round of the 2007 draft to Portland.

(An aside on his two seasons at Duke: McRoberts said playing for Mike Krzyzewski "wasn't the best fit for me, that's all I'll say ... I probably stayed longer than I should have.")

McRoberts fell to the 2nd round because Duke was a bad fit for him and he suffered in the draft as a result.
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I think your last sentence is unsubstantiated, and a completely unsupportable assertion.

At best.
 
RF2044 said:
Here's something to chew on: Dante Green was also projected to be a much higher first round pick than where he ended up, and got intel to support that belief.

I pray to christ that Grant gets drafted high. Chad Ford / ESPN's mock draft simulator are about on par with nbadraft.net, in terms of accuracy at this point in the game. If you guys had seem the scouting report on Grant that I'd seen, you would be singing a different tune.

I wish him nothing but the best. Love Jerami. I'm not even saying he's making a "bad" decision, I just don't think that him going in the lottery is a sure thing--at all.
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Donte Green wasn't the athlete Grant is. Jerami is projected to go high because of his motor and athletically ability. If Jerami Grant or Aaron Gordon could shoot really they would be in contention for the 1 pick in the draft. Grant's jump shot needs work, but he will work on it better in the pros than at SU. JB wouldn't want him working on his weakness during games he would want him posting up and scoring within the offense. Grant was smart.
 
Alsacs said:
Donte Green wasn't the athlete Grant is. Jerami is projected to go high because of his motor and athletically ability. If Jerami Grant or Aaron Gordon could shoot really they would be in contention for the 1 pick in the draft. Grant's jump shot needs work, but he will work on it better in the pros than at SU. JB wouldn't want him working on his weakness during games he would want him posting up and scoring within the offense. Grant was smart.
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That's your opinion--per my post above, I'm not sure that many professional scouts agree with your opinion.

Being a tremendous athlete doesn't change that he's a small tweener who's physically weak, lacks a position, and doesn't do anything particularly well on offense. He lacks the skill to be a 3, and the physical attributes to be a power forward in the league.

Despite that athleticism, players like Grant are a dime a dozen, and rarely succeed in the NBA. Time will tell how smart his decision is.
 
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Grant's jump shot needs work, but he will work on it better in the pros than at SU. JB wouldn't want him working on his weakness during games he would want him posting up and scoring within the offense
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Think this is an underrated point
 
Knicks411 said:
Think this is an underrated point
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Considering that Grant was the odds on favorite to see the majority of his time at the 3, I don't think that it is a very good point at all.

I think it is a nonsense truism that people are using to rationalize.

Grant would have been given every opportunity [and in all likelihood, a complete green light] to show diversified offensive skill development next season.
 
RF2044 said:
That's your opinion--per my post above, I'm not sure that many professional scouts agree with your opinion.

Being a tremendous athlete doesn't change that he's a small tweener who's physically weak, lacks a position, and doesn't do anything particularly well on offense. He lacks the skill to be a 3, and the physical attributes to be a power forward in the league.

Despite that athleticism, players like Grant are a dime a dozen, and rarely succeed in the NBA. Time will tell how smart his decision is.
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...-stock-pro-future?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Grant

All the doubt your expressed are in that article. Yet Grant is pegged to go anywhere from 12 to 20 in the first round.

Here is an excerpt
He has a strong motor, attacks the rim and has the ability to guard the 2, 3 and 4, which also has a strong appeal to NBA scouts. But his lack of offensive skills somewhat dampens that enthusiasm.

Grant has the makings of a midrange jumper (though it's still inconsistent), but other than that, he doesn't have much of an offensive game. He has no 3-point shot to speak of and can't really create his own shot off the dribble yet.

The question for Grant: Can he go from elite athlete to something more? NBA players need to have the ability to score at the next level; it's hard for them to get on the floor if they can't. I think teams are going to give him a long look in the 12-20 range, but his long-term potential is dependent on developing small forward skills either in the D-League or practice
 
RF2044 said:
Considering that Grant was the odds on favorite to see the majority of his time at the 3, I don't think that it is a very good point at all.

I think it is a nonsense truism that people are using to rationalize.

Grant would have been given every opportunity [and in all likelihood, a complete green light] to show diversified offensive skill development next season.
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I don't think he was going to get nearly as much of a chance to work on his jumper with another year at school than he would by going pro. But if he struggled with the jumper early here I wouldn;t be surprised at all to see JB tell him to back off taking it as much. He would definitely have gotten more shots if he came back to school since he'd be the focal point of the offense, but I still think it would have been mostly of the face up and drive variety as opposed to taking jumpers. We'll never know now though
 
Knicks411 said:
I don't think he was going to get nearly as much of a chance to work on his jumper with another year at school than he would by going pro. But if he struggled with the jumper early here I wouldn;t be surprised at all to see JB tell him to back off taking it as much. He would definitely have gotten more shots if he came back to school since he'd be the focal point of the offense, but I still think it would have been mostly of the face up and drive variety as opposed to taking jumpers. We'll never know now though
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Balderdash. He would have had every same opportunity to work on his jumper between now and the start of college basketball season as he would playing at the next level leading up to the beginning of the NBA season. The real question is: would he develop perimeter skills or not? Because if yes, then JB wouldn't tell him to back off. And if no, then it doesn't matter whether he's hoisting jumpers in the Melo center or some pro facility--the end result would be the same. He wouldn't magically develop a better jumper as a function of wearing different warm up gear.
 
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I'm coming from the idea that to make it in the NBA he's going to have to have more of a perimeter game than he'd necessarily need to be a really good player for SU next year and he would focus more on that. Maybe I'm totally off on that.
 
RF I like your posts on this one we just disagree. Which is cool because I respect you have brought legit opinions/statements to your posts and not just disagreeing with nothing behind it. I just feel Grant's weakness would improve better with pro coaching rather than coming back to SU. Obviously, I think Grant would have had a good season for SU next year, but his weaknesses IMO wouldn't improve while at Syracuse.
 
Alsacs said:
RF I like your posts on this one we just disagree. Which is cool because I respect you have brought legit opinions/statements to your posts and not just disagreeing with nothing behind it. I just feel Grant's weakness would improve better with pro coaching rather than coming back to SU. Obviously, I think Grant would have had a good season for SU next year, but his weaknesses IMO wouldn't improve while at Syracuse.
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Cool--agree to disagree.

Happy easter!
 
Alsacs said:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...-stock-pro-future?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Grant

All the doubt your expressed are in that article. Yet Grant is pegged to go anywhere from 12 to 20 in the first round.

Here is an excerpt
He has a strong motor, attacks the rim and has the ability to guard the 2, 3 and 4, which also has a strong appeal to NBA scouts. But his lack of offensive skills somewhat dampens that enthusiasm.

Grant has the makings of a midrange jumper (though it's still inconsistent), but other than that, he doesn't have much of an offensive game. He has no 3-point shot to speak of and can't really create his own shot off the dribble yet.

The question for Grant: Can he go from elite athlete to something more? NBA players need to have the ability to score at the next level; it's hard for them to get on the floor if they can't. I think teams are going to give him a long look in the 12-20 range, but his long-term potential is dependent on developing small forward skills either in the D-League or practice
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The key word there is "pegged" Donte greene was pegged to be drafted a lot higher than 28. Grant doesn't do any one thing well. He is a good athlete , which is a dime a dozen in the nba. He needs a lot of work on his game.
 
Alsacs said:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...-stock-pro-future?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Grant

All the doubt your expressed are in that article. Yet Grant is pegged to go anywhere from 12 to 20 in the first round.

Here is an excerpt
He has a strong motor, attacks the rim and has the ability to guard the 2, 3 and 4, which also has a strong appeal to NBA scouts. But his lack of offensive skills somewhat dampens that enthusiasm.

Grant has the makings of a midrange jumper (though it's still inconsistent), but other than that, he doesn't have much of an offensive game. He has no 3-point shot to speak of and can't really create his own shot off the dribble yet.

The question for Grant: Can he go from elite athlete to something more? NBA players need to have the ability to score at the next level; it's hard for them to get on the floor if they can't. I think teams are going to give him a long look in the 12-20 range, but his long-term potential is dependent on developing small forward skills either in the D-League or practice
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That basically tell you all you need to know, this scout think Grant should have come back for another year.
 
Briancuse said:
That basically tell you all you need to know, this scout think Grant should have come back for another year.
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Does it? Says 12-20 or $2.5M - $3.7M.
 
Briancuse said:
The last time I checked Chris Mannix isn't a gm, neither is anyone at nbadraft.net
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Point? I used the same article you are from ESPN.
 
Alsacs said:
Donte Green wasn't the athlete Grant is. Jerami is projected to go high because of his motor and athletically ability. If Jerami Grant or Aaron Gordon could shoot really they would be in contention for the 1 pick in the draft. Grant's jump shot needs work, but he will work on it better in the pros than at SU. JB wouldn't want him working on his weakness during games he would want him posting up and scoring within the offense. Grant was smart.
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This is a really silly statement. If Shabazz Napier was 6 foot 6 and had ups like Grant, or if Tyler Ennis could dunk from the FT line and make 75% from 3 pt land... they would be in contention for the #1 pick too. But they cant. And Jeremi cant shoot. So they are what they are... dicey NBA prospects who are 50/50 at best to get a second contract.
 
TBCuse11 said:
This is a really silly statement. If Shabazz Napier was 6 foot 6 and had ups like Grant, or if Tyler Ennis could dunk from the FT line and make 75% from 3 pt land... they would be in contention for the #1 pick too. But they cant. And Jeremi cant shoot. So they are what they are... dicey NBA prospects who are 50/50 at best to get a second contract.
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Most players are 50/50 at best to get their 2nd contract. Jeremi can shoot, just not from deep. I think he's shown enough from inside the arc to warrant the 1st round selection - he will become a better shooter in the NBA.

Dicey NBA prospects are kids who are taken in the 2nd round.
 
TBCuse11 said:
This is a really silly statement. If Shabazz Napier was 6 foot 6 and had ups like Grant, or if Tyler Ennis could dunk from the FT line and make 75% from 3 pt land... they would be in contention for the #1 pick too. But they cant. And Jeremi cant shoot. So they are what they are... dicey NBA prospects who are 50/50 at best to get a second contract.
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players can and do develop jump shots - but players do not grow 8 inches after the age of 23
in other words - it is possible that Grant becomes the best shooter in history - or even a serviceable shooter
it is not possible for Napier to become 6'6"
 
Not to pile on Brian but another reason why his logic is flawed is the assumption that coming back for another year is automatically going to improve your draft position. This just isn't the case. Take a look at my etcha-sketch lottery breakdown of the last 4 drafts. Upperclassmen (Juniors and Seniors) make up a minority of the lottery. Where in the lottery are all these Junior and Seniors who are benefiting from the extra "development" they're getting in college ? There just isn't that many. Just off the top of my head guys like Sullinger and McAdoo actually hurt their draft stock by coming back. I'm sure there's many others (hell, maybe even Fair). The reality is whether Grant leaves this year or next year chances are, it's not going to drastically impact where he goes in the draft. So why lose 2+ million to find out ?

Junior and Seniors/Lottery
2010 - 5/14
2011 - 5/14
2012 - 3/14
2013 - 3/14
 
TBCuse11 said:
This is a really silly statement. If Shabazz Napier was 6 foot 6 and had ups like Grant, or if Tyler Ennis could dunk from the FT line and make 75% from 3 pt land... they would be in contention for the #1 pick too. But they cant. And Jeremi cant shoot. So they are what they are... dicey NBA prospects who are 50/50 at best to get a second contract.
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...chad-ford-non-freshmen-lottery-mock-draft-nba

6. Boston Celtics

Jerami Grant, F, Syracuse

Grant comes with a great basketball pedigree, is an elite athlete and is starting to develop a midrange game. If he were a better shooter, he would have had a legitimate shot at being the No. 1 pick.

Grant is a good jump shot from being elite. Others need the jump shot to be decent Grant has the other stuff.
 
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