NCAA Boogeyman

[iommi]

I tend to be a nervous, easily excitable type. (Maybe that's why I love the song, "Excitable Boy" by the late, great Warren Zevon.) I know this and accept this about myself. I just wanted to preface what I am writing about here with that realization. That being said, I'm shocked at what I perceive to be a lack of concern about the possible sanctions against our beloved hoops program. I mean there are a few threads about this but not as much chatter as I'd expect.

Now I realize that whatever happens at and after the NCAA hearing is out of our control, but the rumors that have been circulating certainly sound serious. I'm trying not to think about the what if's but as I've said, worrying about things is part of my DNA.

It just pisses me off that this cloud is hovering over our program once again. I'm not sure whom my anger should be directed toward but I'm always ready to tell the NCAA to go to hell. It's a very frustrating situation; I can only imagine how frustrating it is for JB, the hoops staff and the rest of the athletic department at my beloved alma mater. Here we are in the middle of a tremendous era in SU Hoops and I feel very uneasy instead of feeling hopeful and optimistic about a future that looks very bright on paper.

I've gone through some tough personal stuff in the past year; so let me make it clear: despite this post sounding very doom and gloom, it obviously is in context. Nothing that happens to the hoops team is that important in the big picture and I'm well aware of that.

Maybe we're just used to being under the microscope after being dragged through the mud with all the negative news about our program in recent years that we've become desensitized?? I really don't know but I'm hoping someone can talk me off the symbolic ledge because I have been out of sorts since this news leaked last Friday.

 

[AirForceOrange]

 

[Cusefan0307]

People are concerned, but we also know the NCAA is a joke. I think it's more of a roll your eyes type concern.

 

[iommi]

People are concerned, but we also know the NCAA is a joke. I think it's more of a roll your eyes type concern.

Rolling your eyes because the NCAA is a joke and/ or powerless to actually legitimately enforce anything?

 

[RF2044]

I tend to be a nervous, easily excitable type. (Maybe that's why I love the song, "Excitable Boy" by the late, great Warren Zevon.) I know this and accept this about myself. I just wanted to preface what I am writing about here with that realization. That being said, I'm shocked at what I perceive to be a lack of concern about the possible sanctions against our beloved hoops program. I mean there are a few threads about this but not as much chatter as I'd expect.

Now I realize that whatever happens at and after the NCAA hearing is out of our control, but the rumors that have been circulating certainly sound serious. I'm trying not to think about the what if's but as I've said, worrying about things is part of my DNA.

It just pisses me off that this cloud is hovering over our program once again. I'm not sure whom my anger should be directed toward but I'm always ready to tell the NCAA to go to hell. It's a very frustrating situation; I can only imagine how frustrating it is for JB, the hoops staff and the rest of the athletic department at my beloved alma mater. Here we are in the middle of a tremendous era in SU Hoops and I feel very uneasy instead of feeling hopeful and optimistic about a future that looks very bright on paper.

I've gone through some tough personal stuff in the past year; so let me make it clear: despite this post sounding very doom and gloom, it obviously is in context. Nothing that happens to the hoops team is that important in the big picture and I'm well aware of that.

Maybe we're just used to be under the microscope after being dragged through the mud with all the negative news about our program in recent years that we've become desensitized?? I really don't know but I'm hoping someone can talk me off the symbolic ledge because I have been out of sorts since this news leaked last Friday.

I think its hard to know for sure what we're up against until the hearing later this week.

But as for blame, I think its a little from column A, a little from column B.

I love JB, as a life long Syracuse fan. But the guy runs the loosest ship out there--always has, always will. So he certainly deserves some "blame" for having some of the alleged things that are being investigated occur on his watch. I know that it is impossible to expect a major college program to be 100% above board [too unpredictable with college athletes doing dumb stuff all the time], but Boeheim's laissez faire approach let's more of this chicanery go on than should be tolerated. With a net result of--for better or worse, we now have a bunch of stuff for the NCAA to scrutinize.

But the NCAA's enforcement arm is a joke, as is the way they've handled several recent debacles with member institutions like Penn State, Miami, UNC, and Auburn. Their situational enforcement of the rules calls into question their impartiality, let alone the legitimacy of any penalties they might try to impose / enforce. It's tough to take a regulatory agency seriously when they are all over the board in terms of how they enforce the rules, especially when they show blatant favoritism / situational enforcement for some member institutions but not others. And in true keystone cops fashion, even their handling of this investigation with SU--given the multitude of press leaks, the timing of reports surfacing in the media, etc.--has been a fiasco.

The whole thing is a cluster. I'm just hoping that despite the NCAA dredging up old stuff, that none of it is a major violation. We'll see. My belief is that they are hoping that by stacking a bunch of minor violations together, the preponderance of a bunch of minor infractions will support their case for "lack of institutional control," which would be a big deal.

But like you, I've had my fill of that antiquated institution, that exists for no other purpose than to fulfill their own largess and siphon money off of member institutions who actually generate revenue. It would be a different thing entirely if the rules made sense, and if the NCAA actively enforced the rules with standards applied consistently across the board. But they don't, so instead they've become an irrelevant bureaucracy that makes no compunction about cowtowing to powerful constituencies, making a grand spectacle out of excessively punishing minor infractions when the opportunity for low hanging fruit presents a convenient scapegoat, and for being out of touch for what's best for the modern student-athlete. Mark Emmert's tenure over the NCAA has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster in just about every conceivable way.

I look forward to the P5 splitting from the NCAA in the near future. Hopefully, sooner rather than later.

 

[pfister1]

First, we still have very little idea what the subject of the hearing will be. Obviously there has been some speculation that it involves Fab's grades, Southerland's school work, the Athletic Departments lack of a drug policy, the 2007 alleged sexual assault; but this all just speculation, we really don't know what the hearing is about or how serious the allegations/infractions might be. Everything I have seen suggests a range of possibilities. I thought I even saw one article that suggested that it could be other SU programs involved, not just basketball. If that is the case it could mean that the serious infraction(s) that caused it to come to hearing aren't those of the basketball program.

Even the NCAA spokesperson interviewed for the P.S. article on the subject said "the punishments vary so widely that she could not provide a baseline for a potential punishment."

Ultimately, if we are found to have committed a punishable infraction and we are penalized in a heavy handed fashion that the AD doesn't believe is just, we can still appeal and drag it out longer.

I guess my point is what exactly are we supposed to be worrying about at this point? I mean as long as Kentucky is cheating, we're always at risk for being slapped by the NCAA.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Rolling your eyes because the NCAA is a joke and/ or powerless to actually legitimately enforce anything?

For me personally this investigation is way to drawn out. I mean in the time period since the investigation started, we have made the elite 8, final four, changed leagues, Penn State was given sanctions, then those sanctions were taken away, UNC was accused of "teaching fake classes" and they haven't really been investigated except internally, FSU and Tallahassee Police botched a Sexual Assault investigation, and here we have the sudden moral characters of Lloyd Carr and Bobby Cremins telling us how immoral our basketball program is. So I guess to answer your question the NCAA is a joke, and if what they find is what we already know, I hope Daryl and Kent appeal any possible scholarship losses or postseason bans, because the entire Academic support staff in the basketball program has been replaced.

 

[Toga]

Cam Newton

 

[Hoo's That]

I look forward to the P5 splitting from the NCAA in the near future. Hopefully, sooner rather than later.

I'm past pessimistic to being a bit scared about that prospect. I'd rather have the toothless watchdog we have now than no watchdog at all, which is what the SEC will do everything in its power to make sure is what happens. I don't trust the schools in Texas at all, either. Like everyone else, I wish the NCAA did a better and consistent job of enforcement. I just have the horrid feeling that a P5 breakaway would make us long for what we have now as "the good old days."

 

[Brooky03]

I take solice in the fact that the same crap is happening at literally every other major college program and it's just a matter of getting caught. We were put under a microscope and they found some stuff.

If Duke, or L'ville, or UNC, or UK, or KU were investigated closely, the NCAA would find violations there, too. I just hope the NCAA doesn't get carried away and try to make some kind of point here.

 

[RF2044]

I'm past pessimistic to being a bit scared about that prospect. I'd rather have the toothless watchdog we have now than no watchdog at all, which is what the SEC will do everything in its power to make sure is what happens. I don't trust the schools in Texas at all, either. Like everyone else, I wish the NCAA did a better and consistent job of enforcement. I just have the horrid feeling that a P5 breakaway would make us long for what we have now as "the good old days."

I don't fully agree, provided that the new powers-that-be enforce whatever rules they come up with.

If the NCAA did that, they wouldn't be a bureaucratic liability.

Now, if the proposed split results in there not being any rules to keep the playing field level and things turn into the wild wild west, then I agree with your point 100%. I just want to see [1] rules applied that make sense in contemporary college athletics, and [2] said rules enforced consistently, across the board. If the NCAA gets their head out of their collective arses and delivers upon this, I reserve the right to change my opinion about their legitimacy. But since they have proven repeatedly that they are congenitally incapable of doing so, I'm in favor of change.

There was a time when the NIT tournament was the postseason gold standard. But then the NCAA came up with something better. I'm eager to see what the P5 might come up with to replace the current, broken model. If the proposed concept makes things a free for all, then I side with you. Otherwise, bring it on. The NCAA has slit their own throat with their rampant greed, hypocrisy, and corruption.

 

[iommi]

[QUOTE="pfister1, post: 1168860, member: 285
I guess my point is what exactly are we supposed to be worrying about at this point? I mean as long as Kentucky is cheating, we're always at risk for being slapped by the NCAA.[/QUOTE]

I don't get your line about Kentucky: are you saying that they are the poster child for cheating (obviously they are) and they are using a school like Syracuse as a scapegoat?

 

[RF2044]

[QUOTE="pfister1, post: 1168860, member: 285
I guess my point is what exactly are we supposed to be worrying about at this point? I mean as long as Kentucky is cheating, we're always at risk for being slapped by the NCAA.

I don't get your line about Kentucky: are you saying that they are the poster child for cheating (obviously they are) and they are using a school like Syracuse as a scapegoat?[/QUOTE]

It's a reference to the old Jerry Tarkanian sarcastic observation about the NCAA.

 

[Hoo's That]

I'm past pessimistic to being a bit scared about that prospect. I'd rather have the toothless watchdog we have now than no watchdog at all, which is what the SEC will do everything in its power to make sure is what happens. I don't trust the schools in Texas at all, either. Like everyone else, I wish the NCAA did a better and consistent job of enforcement. I just have the horrid feeling that a P5 breakaway would make us long for what we have now as "the good old days."

I don't fully agree, provided that the new powers-that-be enforce whatever rules they come up with.

If the NCAA did that, they wouldn't be a bureaucratic liability.

Now, if the proposed split results in there not being any rules to keep the playing field level and things turn into the wild wild west, then I agree with your point 100%. I just want to see [1] rules applied that make sense in contemporary college athletics, and [2] said rules enforced consistently, across the board. If the NCAA gets their head out of their collective arses and delivers upon this, I reserve the right to change my opinion about their legitimacy. But since they have proven repeatedly that they are congenitally incapable of doing so, I'm in favor of change.

There was a time when the NIT tournament was the postseason gold standard. But then the NCAA came up with something better. I'm eager to see what the P5 might come up with to replace the current, broken model. If the proposed concept makes things a free for all, then I side with you. Otherwise, bring it on. The NCAA has slit their own throat with their rampant greed, hypocrisy, and corruption.

I wish I could be optimistic as you about what would come out of a split, but I just can't. I don't think they'll come up with effective rules because the SEC won't let them. And right now, they're driving the bus.

 

[MSOrange]

I think its hard to know for sure what we're up against until the hearing later this week.

But as for blame, I think its a little from column A, a little from column B.

I love JB, as a life long Syracuse fan. But the guy runs the loosest ship out there--always has, always will. So he certainly deserves some "blame" for having some of the alleged things that are being investigated occur on his watch. I know that it is impossible to expect a major college program to be 100% above board [too unpredictable with college athletes doing dumb stuff all the time], but Boeheim's laissez faire approach let's more of this chicanery go on than should be tolerated. With a net result of--for better or worse, we now have a bunch of stuff for the NCAA to scrutinize.

But the NCAA's enforcement arm is a joke, as is the way they've handled several recent debacles with member institutions like Penn State, Miami, UNC, and Auburn. Their situational enforcement of the rules calls into question their impartiality, let alone the legitimacy of any penalties they might try to impose / enforce. It's tough to take a regulatory agency seriously when they are all over the board in terms of how they enforce the rules, especially when they show blatant favoritism / situational enforcement for some member institutions but not others. And in true keystone cops fashion, even their handling of this investigation with SU--given the multitude of press leaks, the timing of reports surfacing in the media, etc.--has been a fiasco.

These two paragraphs sum up my feelings exactly. Thanks for typing it out so I didn't have to I agree with the rest of your post also but these two paragraphs are exactly what has been on my mind since the news broke again last week.

 

[RF2044]

I wish I could be optimistic as you about what would come out of a split, but I just can't. I don't think they'll come up with effective rules because the SEC won't let them. And right now, they're driving the bus.

Here's a reality I've grown more comfortable with over the past year or so: the old model of amateur college athletics I grew up enjoying and that most pundits enjoy giving lip service to is dead and buried. Money drives the bus, and the NCAA has grown bloated slurping at the teat of programs who drive revenue. And in so doing, have sown the seeds of their eventual destruction.

It would be great [my opinion only] if the focus was on student athletics, and in enforcing the rules to keep amateurism part of college sports, in a way that leveled the playing field and legitimately made it about competition on the field of play. But let's face it--those ideals went by the wayside long ago. Sneaker companies, AAU programs, street agents, professional agents, boosters, etc. have redefined the landscape. We have coaches in both major sports who excel at pushing the boundaries well beyond where they are designed to allow, and we have an enforcement body that makes no qualms about illegally obtaining information during investigations, looks the other way when some schools commit vulgar, flagrant rules violations while simultaneously seeking to corporally punish other schools over far more minor infractions.

I'd love for things to be more like the 1980s, but that time in college athletics is gone forever. The almighty dollar is what's important--so its time to stop pretending that the NCAA is protecting important values or doing what they do to benefit student athletes. They do what they do to ensure that they can continue to wet their beaks. It's like organized crime, only with everyone willing to pretend that it is the right way to do things.

Honestly, can a splinter faction be any worse than how things have become? There is no love in my heart for the SEC, I want to be clear, and that's why it will be incumbent upon the other P5 member institutions to have their say, and not get pushed around when it comes to setting and enforcing rules.

 

[NKR1978]

I tend to be a nervous, easily excitable type. (Maybe that's why I love the song, "Excitable Boy" by the late, great Warren Zevon.) I know this and accept this about myself. I just wanted to preface what I am writing about here with that realization. That being said, I'm shocked at what I perceive to be a lack of concern about the possible sanctions against our beloved hoops program. I mean there are a few threads about this but not as much chatter as I'd expect.

Now I realize that whatever happens at and after the NCAA hearing is out of our control, but the rumors that have been circulating certainly sound serious. I'm trying not to think about the what if's but as I've said, worrying about things is part of my DNA.

It just pisses me off that this cloud is hovering over our program once again. I'm not sure whom my anger should be directed toward but I'm always ready to tell the NCAA to go to hell. It's a very frustrating situation; I can only imagine how frustrating it is for JB, the hoops staff and the rest of the athletic department at my beloved alma mater. Here we are in the middle of a tremendous era in SU Hoops and I feel very uneasy instead of feeling hopeful and optimistic about a future that looks very bright on paper.

I've gone through some tough personal stuff in the past year; so let me make it clear: despite this post sounding very doom and gloom, it obviously is in context. Nothing that happens to the hoops team is that important in the big picture and I'm well aware of that.

Maybe we're just used to be under the microscope after being dragged through the mud with all the negative news about our program in recent years that we've become desensitized?? I really don't know but I'm hoping someone can talk me off the symbolic ledge because I have been out of sorts since this news leaked last Friday.

I genuinely hope the rough stuff in your personal life has passed or that you're making it through.

Honestly, I'm just not worried because worst case scenario we lose one post season and maybe a scholarship or two. It would suck not to have the tournaments to look forward to this year, but it wouldn't affect anything long term. Aside from the fact that recruiting would be fine in that I doubt anyone would refuse to come play for 30,000+ people a few times a year because we were punished by the NCAA. The NCAA has lost all credibility with anyone who follows college sports. There just isn't the scarlet letter associated with sanctions and investigations that there was in the 90's.

Honestly, the academic stuff is a joke. No one outside of a few hand wringers and pearl clutchers in the media actually care about the academics. I doubt the kids we're recruiting actually care that Fab Melo never went to class. No one outside of that moron Pat Forde cares about college kids smoking pot.

I think we've also seen the slaps on the wrist (or less) that Auburn got after Cam Newton's dad basically sold him to the highest bidder, or that any of Yahoo's or SI's "blockbuster" reports led to basically nothing happening to the programs affected.

I also think a part of it for me is that we survived Bernie's scandal with some scratches and bruises. That was like being in a head on collision with an 18 wheeler in a Mini Cooper with ESPN leading the charge. And we survived.

 

[anomander]

You definitely have a right to be nervous, and you should be. The NCAA is a joke organization who pick and choose who they feel they can push around.

 

[RF2044]

You definitely have a right to be nervous, and you should be. The NCAA is a joke organization who pick and choose who they feel they can push around.

Fortunately, there has never been a time more ripe to take them on and challenge their hypocrisy.

 

[anomander]

I genuinely hope the rough stuff in your personal life has passed or that you're making it through.

Honestly, I'm just not worried because worst case scenario we lose one post season and maybe a scholarship or two. It would suck not to have the tournaments to look forward to this year, but it wouldn't affect anything long term. Aside from the fact that recruiting would be fine in that I doubt anyone would refuse to come play for 30,000+ people a few times a year because we were punished by the NCAA. The NCAA has lost all credibility with anyone who follows college sports. There just isn't the scarlet letter associated with sanctions and investigations that there was in the 90's.

Honestly, the academic stuff is a joke. No one outside of a few hand wringers and pearl clutchers in the media actually care about the academics. I doubt the kids we're recruiting actually care that Fab Melo never went to class. No one outside of that moron Pat Forde cares about college kids smoking pot.

I think we've also seen the slaps on the wrist (or less) that Auburn got after Cam Newton's dad basically sold him to the highest bidder, or that any of Yahoo's or SI's "blockbuster" reports led to basically nothing happening to the programs affected.

I also think a part of it for me is that we survived Bernie's scandal with some scratches and bruises. That was like being in a head on collision with an 18 wheeler in a Mini Cooper with ESPN leading the charge. And we survived.

I hear what you're saying but do you really want to have to miss a post season even if it's just 1? With all the other crap going on around the country why are they choosing to take a stand against us? Just look at how missing 1 post season and loss of scholarships effected us in the early 90's. Hopefully that doesn't happen again, and I guess we have Uconn to look at how they bounced back from missing a post season even if it was for APR purposes. It's just BS schools like UNC, and the whole SEC football get a pass, but we're going to get screwed.

 

[iommi]

Great post, NKR. I'm fine now and so is my family...thanks. That's the most important thing.

Do you (and others) think any post season ban would come down the road? I find it hard to believe they'd be able to put it in place this year. Maybe next year or '15-1'6? I realize this is mere speculation.

 

[NKR1978]

Oh and in spite of my calm demeanor, I reserve the right to go absolutely ape**** if the hammer is dropped.

And Iommi, I hope you're back full time. This place is better when you're here even when we disagree, which is quite a lot during the season.

 

[anomander]

Fortunately, there has never been a time more ripe to take them on and challenge their hypocrisy.

You're right. That's what gets me I really don't see how they have any legs to stand on. College football has made a mockery of the system, and the stuff at UNC makes it that much worse for them. Then having Lloyd Carr and Bobby Cremins on the advisory board for the hearing? Talk about making a joke of yourself.

 

[NKR1978]

Great post, NKR. I'm fine now and so is my family...thanks. That's the most important thing.

Do you (and others) think any post season ban would come down the road? I find it hard to believe they'd be able to put it in place this year. Maybe next year or '15-1'6? I realize this is mere speculation.

I just hope it would be this year because it would do the least amount of damage. Your guess is as good as mine.

This hurts to say, but UConn is a model we should look at. They got absolutely screwed by the NCAA. Held onto most of their players and recruits except for Oriakhi (and I don't think they were too sad he left) and then won the Tournament the next year. Their fanbase and players rallied behind the program, and that's what I hope we would do.

 

[iommi]

Oh and in spite of my calm demeanor, I reserve the right to go absolutely ape**** if the hammer is dropped.

And Iommi, I hope you're back full time. This place is better when you're here even when we disagree, which is quite a lot during the season.

I never really left. I'm always lurking and have posted whenever I feel I can contribute on either this board, the recruiting board or the football board. I didn't realize we disagree a lot... LOL.