OT: Conference Realignment (Big Vote Next Week)

[Alsacs]

Texas could go Indy tomorrow if they wanted.
They only need to play Oklahoma in the Big XII right now and OU would continue playing them as it mutually beneficial game.
They could play 5 ACC games/OU/ND 7 games
3 games from Houston/SMU/Rice/Tulane/Texas State/North Texas/UTEP
2 TBAs each year and be fine.

 

[Btstimpy]

According to one of our board gurus in a position to know, Texas was offered the ND deal by the ACC before ND was an turned it down. Maybe it's time to ask them again?

Possibly it is time. Oklahoma's David Boren is creating a lot of havoc in that league lately.

 

[baggerbob]

Possibly it is time. Oklahoma's David Boren is creating a lot of havoc in that league lately.

Invite Oklahoma, and West Virginia as 15, and 16, you get good football, and basketball, satisfy everyone, and force Texas hand.

 

[SU68]

AS I wasn't in the BE in any way, shape, or form , the BE problems did not work in any way for me. I am a UNC grad, and I always hated the BE - people who have known me as a poster back to the start of this century will know that I always said that because the BE become a 2-headed monster, it would die, and also that I cheered for the coming death of the BE.

The BE problem, the one it could never get past, was that it was founded exclusively as a basketball league. Of the 7 charter members, only Cuse and BC played 1A football. The 9th member, Pitt, also played 1A football, meaning that only 1/3rd of the BE in its classic golden age, before BE football, played 1A football. And that meant that the non-1A football schools would resent BE football, as taking some of their power and media interest. And the basketball schools held the power - which is the reason the BE today is the non-1A football schools. The basketball schools power was so complete that in 1998, when Tranghese learned that Miami was petitioning the ACC, which would mean all other football programs that could do so also would jump to the ACC, he offered the ACC Miami, Cuse, BC, and Pitt (the first 4 BE members that played 1A football) for football season, as long as they would remain in BE basketball.

That's the power the non-football BE schools had: they intended to kill BE football to save BE basketball at full strength.

The ACC having Navy for football and Georgetown for basketball would be nothing like the BE mess. That would be just 2 schools in the same TV market sharing 1 revenue sports slot. And the reason to have them would be to replace Maryland fully.

Good response. I like you except for the UNC part; I'm also a Duke grad. lol

 

[nzm136]

According to one of our board gurus in a position to know, Texas was offered the ND deal by the ACC before ND was an turned it down. Maybe it's time to ask them again?

I firmly believe that the ACC should make Texas a BD offer.

If you assume:

*The Big 12 will do everything in its power to keep its two remaining marquee teams - ESPECIALLY Texas because the conference's survival depends on having at least one of them, if not both
*All things being equal, the Big 12 is a better home for the Horns than the ACC
*Texas and OU have hit diminishing returns when it comes to athletic spending
*The ACC would benefit the most from a declined Big 12
*That OU's loyalty can be bought
*That nobody else in the conference could ruin the conference by departing and that Texas and OU aside, the only other school in the conference that even might have an exit option is KU
*That Texas has good academics, good basketball/Olympic sports, and a ton of football fans

Then, if we offer Texas a ND deal, we will almost certainly be better off, whether they take it or not.

*If they decline it, they will still be able to use the offer as leverage to extract additional concessions from the Big 12 (i.e. a matching deal). OU's threats to leave would become even more credible, giving the Sooners even more leverage to demand concessions. At the end of the day, the Big 12 schools that aren't UT or Oklahoma would be way worse off. Since any marginal benefit in terms of competitiveness that flows to either UT or OU would be minimal, due to diminishing returns, the conference would be less competitive on the whole. That would improve the relative perception of the ACC when compared to the Big 12, and it might create more room in the top 25 for ACC teams and/or make the OB and SB switch positions (next time bowl contracts are reworked).

*If Texas accepts, we gain a handful of premier football games (2.5 of which would be on the ACC's TV deal and an additional 2.5 a year would be in front of some of the nation's best recruits). And, we gain some great Olympic sports, a solid basketball program, and association with another great academic institution. Additionally, this is a bit of a long shot, but if the Big 12 withers away and Texas gains some history with the ACC, partial membership might eventually pave the way to Texas and ND being #15 and #16.

Either way, I think that we will be better off. Admittedly, there's a chance that an offer could destroy the conference, driving Texas, KU, and OU to the B1G/SEC, but I don't think that's likely.

 

[WoadBlue]

Good response. I like you except for the UNC part; I'm also a Duke grad. lol

I hope you made it a game or two, in any sport, at Chapel Hill while you were at Dook. It is truly the most unique rivalry in college sports. My high school's hated cross-town rival was located 15 miles away - our distance is 8 miles.

NCSU I would be thrilled to shed in a snap. UNC sports and Dook sports require one another, just as the two Med centers require one another.

 

[SU68]

I hope you made it a game or two, in any sport, at Chapel Hill while you were at Dook. It is truly the most unique rivalry in college sports. My high school's hated cross-town rival was located 15 miles away - our distance is 8 miles.

NCSU I would be thrilled to shed in a snap. UNC sports and Dook sports require one another, just as the two Med centers require one another.

I had season tickets for BB and saw Johnny Dawkins and Michael Jordan play. BTW, don't forget that "Carolina Blue is the past tense of Carolina sucks."

 

[WoadBlue]

I firmly believe that the ACC should make Texas a BD offer.

If you assume:

*The Big 12 will do everything in its power to keep its two remaining marquee teams - ESPECIALLY Texas because the conference's survival depends on having at least one of them, if not both
*All things being equal, the Big 12 is a better home for the Horns than the ACC
*Texas and OU have hit diminishing returns when it comes to athletic spending
*The ACC would benefit the most from a declined Big 12
*That OU's loyalty can be bought
*That nobody else in the conference could ruin the conference by departing and that Texas and OU aside, the only other school in the conference that even might have an exit option is KU
*That Texas has good academics, good basketball/Olympic sports, and a ton of football fans

Then, if we offer Texas a ND deal, we will almost certainly be better off, whether they take it or not.

*If they decline it, they will still be able to use the offer as leverage to extract additional concessions from the Big 12 (i.e. a matching deal). OU's threats to leave would become even more credible, giving the Sooners even more leverage to demand concessions. At the end of the day, the Big 12 schools that aren't UT or Oklahoma would be way worse off. Since any marginal benefit in terms of competitiveness that flows to either UT or OU would be minimal, due to diminishing returns, the conference would be less competitive on the whole. That would improve the relative perception of the ACC when compared to the Big 12, and it might create more room in the top 25 for ACC teams and/or make the OB and SB switch positions (next time bowl contracts are reworked).

*If Texas accepts, we gain a handful of premier football games (2.5 of which would be on the ACC's TV deal and an additional 2.5 a year would be in front of some of the nation's best recruits). And, we gain some great Olympic sports, a solid basketball program, and association with another great academic institution. Additionally, this is a bit of a long shot, but if the Big 12 withers away and Texas gains some history with the ACC, partial membership might eventually pave the way to Texas and ND being #15 and #16.

Either way, I think that we will be better off. Admittedly, there's a chance that an offer could destroy the conference, driving Texas, KU, and OU to the B1G/SEC, but I don't think that's likely.

My guess is that the ACC has already, not long after the deal with ND, informed Texas that an ND-type deal is on the table - hypothetically, of course.

And I would say that today Texas is more likely to see that possibility ion favorable light than a couple of years ago. Why? Because Boren keeps talking, making it clear to the entire country that he resents Texas as basically sole owner and proprietor of the Big 12. Eventually, Boren's public airing of grievances will mean something must be done. If nothing is done, and the President of the 2nd most powerful school in the conference continues to complain, all TV partners are going to ready to jump ship before contracts are up.

And anyone having any trouble seeing how bad this is needs only focus on the fact that Boren, OU's President, is doing exactly what no FSU President has ever done, or ever come remotely close to doing. Boren is doing what the most-SEC like, the most redneck, 50 or 60% of the FSU fan base has done. Boren is like the very worst of FSU fans, the ones as stupid as WVU fans, in that he is ready to blow up everything in hope it might be better after destruction.

And there is absolutely no movement to rein in Boren, by any power at OU or in state government.

 

[WoadBlue]

I had season tickets for BB and saw Johnny Dawkins and Michael Jordan play. BTW, don't forget that "Carolina Blue is the past tense of Carolina sucks."

In that period, UNC football had 1st rate Ds and a bevy of 1000 yard rushers. Dook had Ben Bennett, a very fine college QB. The '83 game against Dook, closing the season, was the first game at Kenan under the lights - temporary ones for TV. Nearly single handedly, Bennett led a Dook almost-upset. We also had national championship caliber lacrosse.

 

[baggerbob]

My guess is that the ACC has already, not long after the deal with ND, informed Texas that an ND-type deal is on the table - hypothetically, of course.

And I would say that today Texas is more likely to see that possibility ion favorable light than a couple of years ago. Why? Because Boren keeps talking, making it clear to the entire country that he resents Texas as basically sole owner and proprietor of the Big 12. Eventually, Boren's public airing of grievances will mean something must be done. If nothing is done, and the President of the 2nd most powerful school in the conference continues to complain, all TV partners are going to ready to jump ship before contracts are up.

And anyone having any trouble seeing how bad this is needs only focus on the fact that Boren, OU's President, is doing exactly what no FSU President has ever done, or ever come remotely close to doing. Boren is doing what the most-SEC like, the most redneck, 50 or 60% of the FSU fan base has done. Boren is like the very worst of FSU fans, the ones as stupid as WVU fans, in that he is ready to blow up everything in hope it might be better after destruction.

And there is absolutely no movement to rein in Boren, by any power at OU or in state government.

Thats why if the ACC offered Oklahoma, and West Virginia, Texas would be in a pickle.

 

[SWC75]

I'm done with fantasy conferences. I'd like things to settle down for a generation so we can get used to the new normal.

 

[TexanMark]

If you take UT...you build a Pod of 5 B12 teams...TX plus 4 others like Baylor, TCU, OU, etc...

Then call ND's bluff

 

[Orangeman83]

If you take UT...you build a Pod of 5 B12 teams...TX plus 4 others like Baylor, TCU, OU, etc... Then call ND's bluff

how serious is all this talk? The Big 12 got what they wanted with the championship game. How possible that they dissolve in the near future?

 

[Hoo's That]

And anyone having any trouble seeing how bad this is needs only focus on the fact that Boren, OU's President, is doing exactly what no FSU President has ever done, or ever come remotely close to doing. Boren is doing what the most-SEC like, the most redneck, 50 or 60% of the FSU fan base has done. Boren is like the very worst of FSU fans, the ones as stupid as WVU fans, in that he is ready to blow up everything in hope it might be better after destruction.

And there is absolutely no movement to rein in Boren, by any power at OU or in state government.

This is the biggest point made so far. With F$U, it was BoT people airing perceived grievances and were quickly corrected by their President and AD about the true situation. In OU's case, it's their President airing perceived grievances and no one in the entire state of Oklahoma has said anything, including folks at Okie Lite in Stillwater, legislators threatening action one way or the other, the governor threatening to remove Boren, etc.

 

[TexanMark]

how serious is all this talk? The Big 12 got what they wanted with the championship game. How possible that they dissolve in the near future?

I don't think it is happening soon...but within 7 years I see another wave of realignment as the TV contacts come close to the end. The ACC and B12 are both vulnerable but the ACC is more cohesive with better markets.

 

[Moontan]

I don't think it is happening soon...but within 7 years I see another wave of realignment as the TV contacts come close to the end. The ACC and B12 are both vulnerable but the ACC is more cohesive with better markets.

Clemson & Syracuse's upcoming national championships will help too.

 

[retro44]

Clemson & Syracuse's upcoming national championships will help too.

I am not getting the Clemson part....excuse me

 

[Moontan]

I am not getting the Clemson part...excuse me

Clemson will win it all next year. Syracuse will do so a few years later.

 

[nzm136]

Clemson will win it all next year. Syracuse will do so a few years later.

You spelled "Clemson will Clemson again next year while SU wins," but I generally agree.

 

[WoadBlue]

Thats why if the ACC offered Oklahoma, and West Virginia, Texas would be in a pickle.

No OU sports booster wants to be part of the ACC. They like to fancy that they are not low end SEC type fans, but they are. OU fans used to make fun of the SWC because it had Rice. More important, OU is tied in some ways to Ok St.

The ACC dream would be to get Texas in an ND type deal and let that lead to full football membership later. The more that Texas gets tired of Boren and OU, the more that scenario becomes likely.

 

[Chris02M]

with the proposal to allow non round robin division play failing i think acc presidents and ads will actually look at swapping up the divisions to be more zippery with us or bc switching to coastal for vt

 

[WoadBlue]

WVU's Gee thinks Big 12 expansion 'most likely.'

 

[Moontan]

WVU's Gee thinks Big 12 expansion 'most likely.'

I don't think that's the link you intended to post...

 

[SWC75]

They are going to vote on picante sauce?

 

[orange79]

WVU's Gee thinks Big 12 expansion 'most likely.'

Try this