Put JB's words in his own mouth

[dasher]

Yeah, there are plenty of coaches out there who would be pleasant to questions of judgement in the midst of their team struggling. How many coaches around the country even field live questions from fans?

He doesn't do it for free or from the goodness of his heart. He gets paid. If you do it for the money, and you enjoy it when you are winning, you take the good with the bad.

 

[orangecuse]

He doesn't do it for free or from the goodness of his heart. He gets paid. If you do it for the money, and you enjoy it when you are winning, you take the good with the bad.

Amen!

 

[ssbriefcase]

Yeah, there are plenty of coaches out there who would be pleasant to questions of judgement in the midst of their team struggling. How many coaches around the country even field live questions from fans?

Could you imagine if someone asked that to coach K? He can dance around with the best of them, like he did on Dan Patrick yesterday. Newsflash, coaches on the D1 level in hoops and football are ego maniacs.

 

[Townie72]

I told him tonight he had a talented team and he disagreed with me?

I wanted to say well, the only reason I use the word talented because that's what you and all your coaches said.

Furthermore, earlier in the show he said St. John's was a talented team?

So I questioned (God for bid) on it and said if St. John's is a talented team then how can that be when we would not even consider to recruit those players.

Sorry you can't have it both ways.

Go ahead tell me I'm wrong I'm ready .

I'm not sure what a "talented team" is. A team can be composed of a number of talented (highly skilled, very-athletic, etc.) players. I certainly see that on this team and pretty obviously that was what JB was talking about.

Now what we have seen is a team that doesn't play well together and that does not function well, even though it is composed of a lot of guys who in practice and on the court by themselves are very talented.

So now you think you have trapped JB in an inconsistency. Instead of saying a talented team, if he had said "a team with a lot of talented individual players", you would have no inconsistency and no minor semantic point to try and embarrass him with.

By the way, since we are talking about the use of language here, the term is not "God for bid". It's "god forbid". "For bid" would seem to suggest some sort of auction.

 

[pearl31]

Could you imagine if someone asked that to coach K? He can dance around with the best of them, like he did on Dan Patrick yesterday. Newsflash, coaches on the D1 level in hoops and football are ego maniacs.

exactly - it's quite a thing how (and I'm not saying it's exclusive to SU hoops) the hometown fans think their coach is the worst about it, and hold him to these high standards

 

[Townie72]

You can have talented players but that doesn't mean you have a talented team.

Exactly.

It depends on your definition of each.

We can argue if a definition of a talented player includes team-oriented skills in addition to shoot, jump, run, rebound, court-vision, etc.

But a talented team would seem to be one that plays well together.

Is there any wonder why JB gets curt or snarky with questioners when he faces these kind of questions that are not intended to do anything but embarrass him or trip him up?

And for 41 years he has been asked to respond to loaded questions designed to allow the reporter to write a story under an eye-catching headline or from frustrated fans.

In this case, it was a frustrated fan reaching back into the pre-season and latching onto what appears to be a contradiction.

He makes a lot of money. He earns it.

 

[81South]

Its not like he's gonna come out and say St Johns blows. In fact I can't recall him ever saying an opponent was bad but he has no problem pointing out that his players are bad.

 

[Eric15]

Now what we have seen is a team that doesn't play well together and that does not function well, even though it is composed of a lot of guys who in practice and on the court by themselves are very talented.

So, did you basically just admit that JB has failed as a coach this year so far?

 

[Alsacs]

Popcorn

So, did you basically just admit that JB has failed as a coach this year so far?

The response should be good.

 

[Eric15]

Popcorn
The response should be good.

If I know my man Townie the phrase "entitled fan" will somehow be incorporated into this response.

 

[Dcuse]

I told him tonight he had a talented team and he disagreed with me?

I wanted to say well, the only reason I use the word talented because that's what you and all your coaches said.

Furthermore, earlier in the show he said St. John's was a talented team?

So I questioned (God for bid) on it and said if St. John's is a talented team then how can that be when we would not even consider to recruit those players.

Sorry you can't have it both ways.

Go ahead tell me I'm wrong I'm ready .

It's a tough time to ask him questions and a tougher time to answer them. I know he's the coach and he makes so much money and blah,blah,blah but cut the guy some slack. He's human. His team has played two of its worst games in its tremendous history( UConn and SJ). Hard for any of us to phathom, including him.

 

[orangecuse]

So, did you basically just admit that JB has failed as a coach this year so far?

 

[Townie72]

So, did you basically just admit that JB has failed as a coach this year so far?

Who do you think you are jousting with here? Do you actually think I would let you get away with this lame attempt to put words in my mouth?

You can do everything to the best of your ability and things just don't work out. Ask Sally Ride and the crew of the Challenger.

Ad campaigns fail. Product launches fail. Battle plans fail. All put together by a lot of smart guys who know what they are doing and have long track records of success.

JB recruited the best players he could even attracting some highly sought after grad transfers. He used the same highly-evolved process to attempt to integrate them into a team. So far, the product has been woeful against even average competition.

And now the disappointed and frustrated and self-described experts come out of the woodwork. They look to assign blame. They trot out old arguments that have been continually discredited (e.g. M2M). They seek to settle old scores (e.g, the "JB's mean to reporters and I don't like it" crowd).

They are like hyenas seeing the wounded lion struggling.

 

[Townie72]

If I know my man Townie the phrase "entitled fan" will somehow be incorporated into this response.

Way worse than "entitled", I'd say. Although that's part of it.

 

[Alsacs]

Who do you think you are jousting with here? Do you actually think I would let you get away with this lame attempt to put words in my mouth?

You can do everything to the best of your ability and things just don't work out. Ask Sally Ride and the crew of the Challenger.

Ad campaigns fail. Product launches fail. Battle plans fail. All put together by a lot of smart guys who know what they are doing and have long track records of success.

JB recruited the best players he could even attracting some highly sought after grad transfers. He used the same highly-evolved process to attempt to integrate them into a team. So far, the product has been woeful against even average competition.

And now the disappointed and frustrated and self-described experts come out of the woodwork. They look to assign blame. They trot out old arguments that have been continually discredited (e.g. M2M). They seek to settle old scores (e.g, the "JB's mean to reporters and I don't like it" crowd).

They are like hyenas seeing the wounded lion struggling.

Are we not fans and paying customers to the university?
Are we not allowed to appreciate the good but call out the bad?
You don't have to circle the wagons all the time. I will defend JB when its appropriate see the NCAA crap but I will criticize the guy for his faults especially when he doesn't change or care to change.

He has done a poor job at recruiting the last few years. Save Battle's last second flip we would be beyond screwed in the future of backcourt.

He has an all guard all alumni coaching staff which isn't developing a lot of the recent talent.

Jim Boeheim is paid money for his services he deserves a lot more of the scorn over the kids who are playing for an education and not a salary.
The assistant coaches are paid not the players.

Even if some of the customers don't dispense their displeasure whether they are bigtime donors or just regular season ticket holders doesn't mean others can't.

Jim Boeheim is not god and even though he will forget more than I or others will know doesn't mean other opinions can't be given. He isn't perfect and while I thank him for his 41 years as HC I can say he isn't perfect.
He does a lot for charity but he isn't above criticism.

 

[Alsacs]

Way worse than "entitled", I'd say. Although that's part of it.

When tickets are free and people complain then call them entitled.
College sports is a business find me a business where customers never complain.
Look up the damn definition of fanatic and spare the Clint Eastwood get of my lawn stereotype.

 

[SWC75]

Yeah, there are plenty of coaches out there who would be pleasant to questions of judgement in the midst of their team struggling. How many coaches around the country even field live questions from fans?

I assume all of them have a similar show. And pat didn't question Jim's judgment. He didn't get the chance to even ask his question. Jim got hung up on one phrase "talent team" and the conversation never got past that.

I'd still like to know what pat's question was going to be.

 

[SWC75]

Does he not get the blame ever? Or does he only get the credit when we have a fluke 4 game run in March. Good deal for old Jimmy.

Some people seem to think that our wins are flukes and only our losses reveal the truth. I think they both matter.

 

[Eric15]

Who do you think you are jousting with here? Do you actually think I would let you get away with this lame attempt to put words in my mouth?

You can do everything to the best of your ability and things just don't work out. Ask Sally Ride and the crew of the Challenger.

Ad campaigns fail. Product launches fail. Battle plans fail. All put together by a lot of smart guys who know what they are doing and have long track records of success.

JB recruited the best players he could even attracting some highly sought after grad transfers. He used the same highly-evolved process to attempt to integrate them into a team. So far, the product has been woeful against even average competition.

And now the disappointed and frustrated and self-described experts come out of the woodwork. They look to assign blame. They trot out old arguments that have been continually discredited (e.g. M2M). They seek to settle old scores (e.g, the "JB's mean to reporters and I don't like it" crowd).

They are like hyenas seeing the wounded lion struggling.

 

[cbcuse3]

I assume all of them have a similar show. And pat didn't question Jim's judgment. He didn't get the chance to even ask his question. Jim got hung up on one phrase "talent team" and the conversation never got past that. I'd still like to know what pat's question was going to be.

Does anyone have audio of the call?

 

[Col. Bleep]

I don't think 20Plus was supposed to be liking that.

Wow, way to trap him. You're like a modern Perry Mason.

The comment may be meant sarcastically.
But it's also true.
Boeheim is in a trap of his own making.
He can't have it both ways.
20Plus did catch him.
We do not have the talent he said we did.

And Boeheim is wrong about "potential" talent.
It does exist in the sense that someone will exhibit great talent given the desire, time and opportunity to develop it.
That seems to be true of SU freshmen Thompson and Battle.
They're just not ready top be the answers... yet.

 

[iommi]

Leadership is going to be a huge issue for the foreseeable future, both on the bench and on the court. The fact that we don't have one junior on the roster is a huge issue. Coleman and Roberson are exceptions to the rule, in that they are not senior leaders. I winced when SU used DC and TR for our reps at ACC Media Day. They deserved it but their appearances showed that they are not suited to be vocal leaders.

 

[realorange]

The comment may be meant sarcastically.
But it's also true.
Boeheim is in a trap of his own making.
He can't have it both ways.
20Plus did catch him.
We do not have the talent he said we did.

And Boeheim is wrong about "potential" talent.
It does exist in the sense that someone will exhibit great talent given the desire, time and opportunity to develop it.
That seems to be true of SU freshmen Thompson and Battle.
They're just not ready top be the answers... yet.

They have talent, not potential talent. You either have talent or you don't. Potentially they can be very good, but it is based on the fact they have talent.

 

[Townie72]

When tickets are free and people complain then call them entitled.
College sports is a business find me a business where customers never complain.
Look up the damn definition of fanatic and spare the Clint Eastwood get of my lawn stereotype.

I'll answer this one because it's a shorter version of the other one you just posted that says the same thing essentially. Which is "I paid my money and I'll complain if I want to" and "We're fans, what did you expect?"

I agree on the second one. This is pretty typical fan behavior. What you read on here --- calling for JB's scalp. Asking if we can accelerate his retirement date. Challenging Hop's ascendancy to the job, Calling for some mythical savior (Jay Wright?) --- is what some vocal fans do. (I'm an Orioles fans and after every two game skid there are fans (?) calling for Showalter's firing.)

They are frustrated. They think they are experts. And they trot out every complaint they have had in the past sensing a little blood in the water. So it's what you get.

IMO, it's regrettable, but predictable and typical of some.

Me? I'm more philosophical about it. SU isn't going to be great every year. Recruiting and player development is too inexact a science. There will be hit's and misses. Who expected Ennis to be as good as he was? Why isn't Coleman as good as Onuaku?

In fact with all these early entries into the NBA, one might argue that we have been hurt by player evaluation and recruiting that has been too good.

 

[iommi]

We have had way too many recruiting misses during these sanctions: Chino, Buss, BJ (should have redshirted, poor roster mgt.), Kaleb (this was a coaching issue IMO; he will do well at Creighton)... anyone else I'm forgetting? The first two were killers because they gave us absolutely nothing. We couldn't afford one miss, we had at least four.