SU is big time SU is relevant

[TheCusian]

northwestern or stanford, work. id be happy with a bunch of 8 win regular seasons and an Orange Bowl 1x every 5 years or so. i have no delusions of making the F4.

You say delusion, some call that hope.

 

[TheCusian]

Would the script include the period during which a renegade football program essentially operated outside the control of anyone in the Administration?

Completely irrelevant.

 

[xc84]

Can someone delete this thread? The first sign of being irrelevant is having to tell everyone you are not irrelevant. Damn, that's so Rutgers-esque.

 

[SU2NASA]

Would the script include the period during which a renegade football program essentially operated outside the control of anyone in the Administration?

If it delivers national titles, yes.

 

[bcubs9497]

More so, yes.

Okay, then. Duke. The point being is that a private university isn't necessarily at a disadvantage.

 

[Scooch]

Okay, then. Duke. The point being is that a private university isn't necessarily at a disadvantage.

Maybe not "necessarily" but a private school absolutely has challenges that public schools don't face. Aside from ND, which is in a class entirely to themselves, private schools face fan base size issues, which leads to facilities support issues.

Heck, that only 13% of FBS schools are private is pretty telling in itself.

 

[anomander]

Okay, then. Duke. The point being is that a private university isn't necessarily at a disadvantage.

Have to disagree. There are numerous disadvantages associated with being a private school. It just is what it is, it's up to the AD to be very smart, and a big commitment from the University.

 

[DNABB5]

Syracuse football needs a Nebraska moment at this point. Doesn't necessarily need to be the #1 team in the country, but we need to win a game when everyone thinks we can't.

9-26-15

 

[AAM62]

Syracuse football needs a Nebraska moment at this point. Doesn't necessarily need to be the #1 team in the country, but we need to win a game when everyone thinks we can't.

Two reasons - to change perception of the team, and to help this staff build on what it has already established. Which is a solid foundation with two good recruiting classes that I think will be the core of the 2016 & 2017 seasons. Two seasons in which we should take a step up and compete for 8-10 wins and a decent bowl not named the Pinstripe.

As has been mentioned in the past, having FSU & Clemson in our division stinks. But if we can catch one of them on an off year or an off game (which we could have done at Clemson this year if we would have had a Division I QB playing), that would go a long way in gaining respectability of our program back nationally.

Scott Shafer is a good guy and a great defensive mind. And I really hope he succeeds. I still have a hard time getting over the ISIS comments he made in a postgame press conference. No relevance to what was going on and a deflection of the question/topic during a rough period in the season. Didn't like that from him. And hope he has learned from that.

LSU or clemson this year in the dome. Im feeling one of those games as an upset win. Not sure about FSU away.

 

[AAM62]

And to piggy back on my last comment, every other game is winnable...even louisville (look at recent history).

 

[kcsu]

Each college gets to hand out the same number of ships, i understand the walk on thing with a public school as the cost is so much lower but now that we are in the ACC what are the major disadvantages that we face vs public schools. Lets start with fan base i understand that theirs is much larger than ours but didnt we set the attendance record again for basketball? Ok money they have state money. Worked out great for Maryland. They had to run to the big. I get it TV exposure. Oh right we are now in the ACC and about to become the second highest paid conf in the land. Again fan base well would you rather have a degree from Florida State or Syracuse? So at the end of the day lets take a look.

We have plenty of money to do what is required.

We have excellant exposure from the ACC

We are a private school that cost 60k vs 25k for a state factory

Simply put would someone please explain the major advantage that a public factory has over us.

 

[javadoc]

Each college gets to hand out the same number of ships, i understand the walk on thing with a public school as the cost is so much lower but now that we are in the ACC what are the major disadvantages that we face vs public schools. Lets start with fan base i understand that theirs is much larger than ours but didnt we set the attendance record again for basketball? Ok money they have state money. Worked out great for Maryland. They had to run to the big. I get it TV exposure. Oh right we are now in the ACC and about to become the second highest paid conf in the land. Again fan base well would you rather have a degree from Florida State or Syracuse? So at the end of the day lets take a look.

We have plenty of money to do what is required.

We have excellant exposure from the ACC

We are a private school that cost 60k vs 25k for a state factory

Simply put would someone please explain the major advantage that a public factory has over us.

Couple different dynamics with a state school.

In states with a flagship school & program, kids in the state tend to grow up wanting to play for State U. Most of the students are from the state. Much (most?) of the student body is going to remain in the state after graduating. All these factors align. It works over the course of an entire lifetime, through donations and continued support of, and involvement with, the program.

I also suspect that there is a wealthy donor effect. You don't need 1,000 wealthy donors to fund a program, or to make infrastructure projects possible. The number might be only 1, maybe 5. A school that churns out many more students is going to have a better chance of 5 graduates striking it big, and being in a position to be a named donor.

 

[kcsu]

Couple different dynamics with a state school.

In states with a flagship school & program, kids in the state tend to grow up wanting to play for State U. Most of the students are from the state. Much (most?) of the student body is going to remain in the state after graduating. All these factors align. It works over the course of an entire lifetime, through donations and continued support of, and involvement with, the program.

I also suspect that there is a wealthy donor effect. You don't need 1,000 wealthy donors to fund a program, or to make infrastructure projects possible. The number might be only 1, maybe 5. A school that churns out many more students is going to have a better chance of 5 graduates striking it big, and being in a position to be a named donor.

Good post and i agree on staying in state. As to the money aspect we should be in good shape now that we have ACC funding. Syracuse has some very weathly alumni but i dont believe we have done a great job reaching them or resonating with them. Im a fan of Doc and think that he did some really good things for us however he didnt connect with many of our alumni. Not for trying he just didnt connect. The reason that im pushing for the AD from Vill to get hired is that his profile fits ours. He has also taken their donor base to a new high both in terms of money raised and participants. I think with the new admin, the ACC, a new AD, the NCAA investigation behind us, New IPF, and lets hope a solid product on the field this fall the stage is set for some solid advances.

 

[KaiserUEO]

You say delusion, some call that hope.

Syracuse would have to be undefeated in absolutely LOADED ACC.

think...giving fsu & clemson their only losses (except v each other) and then beating an undefeated vpi or miami in the ACC-C.

not happening.

in order for the Syracuse roster to be that good...top to bottom, well...get back to me in 10 years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

So State Schools don't have an advantage wrt money because Maryland did a poor job managing theirs?

 

[TheCusian]

Syracuse would have to be undefeated in absolutely LOADED ACC.

think...giving fsu & clemson their only losses (except v each other) and then beating an undefeated vpi or miami in the ACC-C.

not happening.

in order for the Syracuse roster to be that good...top to bottom, well...get back to me in 10 years.

See: Robert Washington's 30 for 30: The U comments

How about 2-3 years? Unlikely? Of course. Impossible? Only for the serially depressed SU fan.

 

[Scooch]

You say delusion, some call that hope.

FWIW, there's nothing wrong with hope. Needless to say all of us here hope that SU can have a magical season someday and make the playoffs.

I do think that many people don't understand the demands of the current landscape of the game, and the immense challenges that SU faces in overcoming them. And because of that I think the expectations that some folks have are out of whack, and that leads to a lot of unproductive conversations.

Syracuse is the very definition of a small market team when it comes to college football. To torture that analogy, I'll say this... Do Royals fans hope to win a championship? Of course. Should Royals fans expect to win a championship? No. But substitute Royals with Yankees and that last question becomes "yes".

 

[Bayside44]

Each college gets to hand out the same number of ships, i understand the walk on thing with a public school as the cost is so much lower but now that we are in the ACC what are the major disadvantages that we face vs public schools. Lets start with fan base i understand that theirs is much larger than ours but didnt we set the attendance record again for basketball? Ok money they have state money. Worked out great for Maryland. They had to run to the big. I get it TV exposure. Oh right we are now in the ACC and about to become the second highest paid conf in the land. Again fan base well would you rather have a degree from Florida State or Syracuse? So at the end of the day lets take a look.

We have plenty of money to do what is required.

We have excellant exposure from the ACC

We are a private school that cost 60k vs 25k for a state factory

Simply put would someone please explain the major advantage that a public factory has over us.

Multi-generational fan and donor bases for one.

 

[Scooch]

Each college gets to hand out the same number of ships, i understand the walk on thing with a public school as the cost is so much lower but now that we are in the ACC what are the major disadvantages that we face vs public schools. Lets start with fan base i understand that theirs is much larger than ours but didnt we set the attendance record again for basketball? Ok money they have state money. Worked out great for Maryland. They had to run to the big. I get it TV exposure. Oh right we are now in the ACC and about to become the second highest paid conf in the land. Again fan base well would you rather have a degree from Florida State or Syracuse? So at the end of the day lets take a look.

We have plenty of money to do what is required.

We have excellant exposure from the ACC

We are a private school that cost 60k vs 25k for a state factory

Simply put would someone please explain the major advantage that a public factory has over us.

You summarily dismissed several of the big advantages.

1. Walk-ons. That's a tremendous advantage that many state schools have. There are kids who grow up rooting for State U (more on that) and would rather pay in-state tuition to talk on that accept a scholarship at a lower-level school. That build depth, certainly for practice purposes (how many years have we had to curtail practice late in seasons becaause of injuries? Now what if we had 20+ quality walk ons?) and occasionally a two-deep talented player emerges.

2. Fan base. Our basketball attendance is not applicable. As javadoc said, there are a multitude of advantages that come with having a larger fan base. Funding, across a host of areas, for one. Players, as mentioned in my first point. Attractiveness to bowls and TV, which become self-perpetuating ways to gain exposure and improve the program.

3. Money. I see your Maryland and raise you a few dozen other schools that have tapped state coffers to help build their program. Just because SU is in better financial shape now than we were in the Big East days doesn't mean we are near parity with most P5 schools. We are not.

 

[Millhouse]

You summarily dismissed several of the big advantages.

1. Walk-ons. That's a tremendous advantage that many state schools have. There are kids who grow up rooting for State U (more on that) and would rather pay in-state tuition to talk on that accept a scholarship at a lower-level school. That build depth, certainly for practice purposes (how many years have we had to curtail practice late in seasons becaause of injuries? Now what if we had 20+ quality walk ons?) and occasionally a two-deep talented player emerges.

2. Fan base. Our basketball attendance is not applicable. As javadoc said, there are a multitude of advantages that come with having a larger fan base. Funding, across a host of areas, for one. Players, as mentioned in my first point. Attractiveness to bowls and TV, which become self-perpetuating ways to gain exposure and improve the program.

3. Money. I see your Maryland and raise you a few dozen other schools that have tapped state coffers to help build their program. Just because SU is in better financial shape now than we were in the Big East days doesn't mean we are near parity with most P5 schools. We are not.

i have no evidence for this so here goes

i hate invoking anything malcolm gladwell says... but it's a good a description as anything. i think there is some tipping point when it comes to the number of fans needed to attract other fans. i feel stupid just picking any old team to root for. i root for home teams. why? because i want to be on the same bandwagon as people around me. fun parties, easy conversation, something to rally around. if you're the only one at a concert, you're going to feel weird rocking out. when lots of people are there doing that, you don't feel weird. it's like a network effect. facebook is useless unless lots of people in your network are on it. lots of people only want to go to these games if lots of other people are. it's more fun that way

big dopey state schools where people stay home and their kids stay home and their kids stay home, there are lots of people that consider it the home team

SU's problem is that basketball eats away football attendance. SU basketball is a pseudo home team in rochester (only reason i bring up rochester is because SU isn't big enough on its own to put 50k in there). but there are only so many games that people from rochester are going to drive to in a year. big ol' state schools often have the same trouble in basketball. they make their long trips for football, not basketball.

SU football needs to reduce capacity a lot. easy to do. hard thing is targeting football fans that can do a day trip that a) aren't big basketball fans and b) don't want to go to NFL games. i really think some family oriented marketing. better behavior, affordable, and still high enough quality to appease kids who will think big ACC teams are good enough to not beg to go to bills games.

 

[MSOrange]

FWIW, there's nothing wrong with hope. Needless to say all of us here hope that SU can have a magical season someday and make the playoffs.

I do think that many people don't understand the demands of the current landscape of the game, and the immense challenges that SU faces in overcoming them. And because of that I think the expectations that some folks have are out of whack, and that leads to a lot of unproductive conversations.

Syracuse is the very definition of a small market team when it comes to college football. To torture that analogy, I'll say this... Do Royals fans hope to win a championship? Of course. Should Royals fans expect to win a championship? No. But substitute Royals with Yankees and that last question becomes "yes".

I agree with your thoughts except living in the Kansas City area, I can assure many Royals fans are expecting to win a championship this year after the excitement of last year - whether that may be misguided or not

 

[Scooch]

I agree with your thoughts except living in the Kansas City area, I can assure many Royals fans are expecting to win a championship this year after the excitement of last year - whether that may be misguided or not

Oh, I have no doubt about that! People change their expectations rapidly when success (or failure) comes, but obviously it doesn't negate the underlying institutional challenges.

 

[Townie72]

If it delivers national titles, yes.

You cannot be serious.

You may want to re-watch the ESPN show on "The U".

I'll guarantee you this. The "U" has no interest in going back to those days. But you think SU should?

I get the sentiment. But upon further consideration, I wouldn't recommend the school go down that path regardless of how many wins we get in the short run.

 

[TheCusian]

You cannot be serious.

You may want to re-watch the ESPN show on "The U".

I'll guarantee you this. The "U" has no interest in going back to those days. But you think SU should?

I get the sentiment. But upon further consideration, I wouldn't recommend the school go down that path regardless of how many wins we get in the short run.

I'm not sure why you can't separate the swagger and off-field issues with the success? If you could have that caliber of player (RW44 hopefully is) without the issues (RW44 is def a high character guy - as are his friends) - wouldn't you?!

 

[CanadianSU]

Syracuse is much much more popular than some in CNY think. Whether it be for basketball or any other sport, it's pretty freakin relevant.