SU is big time SU is relevant

[TheCusian]

i have no evidence for this so here goes

i hate invoking anything malcolm gladwell says... but it's a good a description as anything. i think there is some tipping point when it comes to the number of fans needed to attract other fans. i feel stupid just picking any old team to root for. i root for home teams. why? because i want to be on the same bandwagon as people around me. fun parties, easy conversation, something to rally around. if you're the only one at a concert, you're going to feel weird rocking out. when lots of people are there doing that, you don't feel weird. it's like a network effect. facebook is useless unless lots of people in your network are on it. lots of people only want to go to these games if lots of other people are. it's more fun that way

big dopey state schools where people stay home and their kids stay home and their kids stay home, there are lots of people that consider it the home team

SU's problem is that basketball eats away football attendance. SU basketball is a pseudo home team in rochester (only reason i bring up rochester is because SU isn't big enough on its own to put 50k in there). but there are only so many games that people from rochester are going to drive to in a year. big ol' state schools often have the same trouble in basketball. they make their long trips for football, not basketball.

SU football needs to reduce capacity a lot. easy to do. hard thing is targeting football fans that can do a day trip that a) aren't big basketball fans and b) don't want to go to NFL games. i really think some family oriented marketing. better behavior, affordable, and still high enough quality to appease kids who will think big ACC teams are good enough to not beg to go to bills games.

I agree. And I think that the biggest hurdle is losing and the culture of losing that surrounds the program. There is no momentum. I think RW44 is a giant step in the right direction, esp if he wears the number in game #1. I also love the new hire of Football operations. And hopefully we can take advantage of the opportunity and get the right person in the AD job. BUT ultimately? Wins. Lots of exciting, high scoring wins.

 

[baggerbob]

Syracuse football needs a Nebraska moment at this point. Doesn't necessarily need to be the #1 team in the country, but we need to win a game when everyone thinks we can't.

Two reasons - to change perception of the team, and to help this staff build on what it has already established. Which is a solid foundation with two good recruiting classes that I think will be the core of the 2016 & 2017 seasons. Two seasons in which we should take a step up and compete for 8-10 wins and a decent bowl not named the Pinstripe.

As has been mentioned in the past, having FSU & Clemson in our division stinks. But if we can catch one of them on an off year or an off game (which we could have done at Clemson this year if we would have had a Division I QB playing), that would go a long way in gaining respectability of our program back nationally.

Scott Shafer is a good guy and a great defensive mind. And I really hope he succeeds. I still have a hard time getting over the ISIS comments he made in a postgame press conference. No relevance to what was going on and a deflection of the question/topic during a rough period in the season. Didn't like that from him. And hope he has learned from that.

LSU is coming to the Dome early in the Season, and won't be ready for a big effort, that could be Scott's, Nebraska moment. Adly, Jamal, Trey are the type of players who could surprise an LSU team, big receivers who are match-up problems, who can knock down DB's, and LB's on down field blocking.

 

[bcubs9497]

An aside, LSU is kinda broke.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...dents-who-are-broke-lsu-draws-bankruptcy-plan

So, being a "BIG SCHOOL" isn't always an advantage.

 

[TheCusian]

FWIW, there's nothing wrong with hope. Needless to say all of us here hope that SU can have a magical season someday and make the playoffs.

I do think that many people don't understand the demands of the current landscape of the game, and the immense challenges that SU faces in overcoming them. And because of that I think the expectations that some folks have are out of whack, and that leads to a lot of unproductive conversations.

Syracuse is the very definition of a small market team when it comes to college football. To torture that analogy, I'll say this... Do Royals fans hope to win a championship? Of course. Should Royals fans expect to win a championship? No. But substitute Royals with Yankees and that last question becomes "yes".

I agree - and I think most everyone has that kind of hope around here. And I agree that there are some that can't see very real uphill climb it would take to make the CFP. My problem is when fans opt to take a negative "it will never happen" here take in place of a "it's possible" take automatically. Why won't people entertain the idea that however unlikely that it's not impossible? The hope I'm talking about admits that it's possible. In our lifetimes. And that RW44 offers a glimmer of that chance?

 

[KaiserUEO]

I agree - and I think most everyone has that kind of hope around here. And I agree that there are some that can't see very real uphill climb it would take to make the CFP. My problem is when fans opt to take a negative "it will never happen" here take in place of a "it's possible" take automatically. Why won't people entertain the idea that however unlikely that it's not impossible? The hope I'm talking about admits that it's possible. In our lifetimes. And that RW44 offers a glimmer of that chance?

you ok??

 

[xc84]

An aside, LSU is kinda broke.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...dents-who-are-broke-lsu-draws-bankruptcy-plan

So, being a "BIG SCHOOL" isn't always an advantage.

They've been Jindaled.

 

[MadNY3]

Im sick of the attitude that some of our board members have. The fact of the matter is that Syracuse University will always be big time in sports. We will always be relevant. Today we took the crown in both guys and gals lacrosse. Yesterday we landed one of the top HS football players in the country. Every year we are a threat to win the National championship in basketball and our womens team is nothing to sneeze at. We just completed the IPF and have one of if not the best mens basketball IPF in the country. The dome is known nation wide if not world wide and it is about to get a great make over. We are in a power conf which is without a doubt the best in basketball, lacrosse and has multiple teams that should be in the college football playoff each year. Lets put the negative . . . . away and realize that we are a power school one that can compete with on a national basis. It is a good time to be Orange and it is about to get a ton better.
Go Cuse!

Thing is if we have a thread about it, maybe aren't right now.

 

[TheCusian]

you ok??

Need hugzzz

 

[AAM62]

LSU is coming to the Dome early in the Season, and won't be ready for a big effort, that could be Scott's, Nebraska moment. Adly, Jamal, Trey are the type of players who could surprise an LSU team, big receivers who are match-up problems, who can knock down DB's, and LB's on down field blocking.

Im with you on that hope but the thought of leonard fournette running the rock against a young defense is concerning. That's a long ways away though.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Thing is if we have a thread about it, maybe aren't right now.

Exactly... and more to the point, are we really that "irrelevant"or are the perpetual "Natttering Nabobs of Negativism" that overpopulate this forum simply showcasing their insecurities, and trying to speak for the rest of us?
Not for nothing, and certainly not blaming the OP, but the title of this thread reminds me of that Sally Field "Oscar moment" where she breathlessly exclaimed: " You like me...you REALLY like me".
Syracuse University doesn't need to proclaim its relevancy to anyone, & to do so in this manner is incredibly pathetic. JMHO
Oh Lord

 

[CuseOnly]

Syracuse football needs a Nebraska moment at this point. Doesn't necessarily need to be the #1 team in the country, but we need to win a game when everyone thinks we can't.

Two reasons - to change perception of the team, and to help this staff build on what it has already established. Which is a solid foundation with two good recruiting classes that I think will be the core of the 2016 & 2017 seasons. Two seasons in which we should take a step up and compete for 8-10 wins and a decent bowl not named the Pinstripe.

As has been mentioned in the past, having FSU & Clemson in our division stinks. But if we can catch one of them on an off year or an off game (which we could have done at Clemson this year if we would have had a Division I QB playing), that would go a long way in gaining respectability of our program back nationally.

Scott Shafer is a good guy and a great defensive mind. And I really hope he succeeds. I still have a hard time getting over the ISIS comments he made in a postgame press conference. No relevance to what was going on and a deflection of the question/topic during a rough period in the season. Didn't like that from him. And hope he has learned from that.

LSU?

 

[baggerbob]

Im with you on that hope but the thought of leonard fournette running the rock against a young defense is concerning. That's a long ways away though.

If Big John is healthy this year RB's, and QB's are going to pay the price for 3 wasted years of his life. He basically lost 4 years of football, and someone will pay the price.

 

[CUSU]

If Big John is healthy this year RB's, and QB's are going to pay the price for 3 wasted years of his life. He basically lost 4 years of football, and someone will pay the price.

Big John Raymon is a freak of nature. Was in awe watching him up close at the spring game. There is no reason a man that large should move so well, guy trots like a gazelle at 320 lbs. Scary.

Hoping he gets a chance to show out this year for a full season.

 

[Chip]

Thing is if we have a thread about it, maybe aren't right now.

I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggone it, people like me.

 

[Townie72]

I'm not sure why you can't separate the swagger and off-field issues with the success? If you could have that caliber of player (RW44 hopefully is) without the issues (RW44 is def a high character guy - as are his friends) - wouldn't you?!

I guess it is possible to have a successful program without all the serious, serious hi-jinks that surrounded the Miami programs. But, it wasn't me that used Miami as an example. I think its an awful example.

So is it possible to get all the success and avoid any of the problems and problem children? For SU, its going to be extraordinarily difficult The 1990's may have been the high-water mark for FB, BB and LAX.

Especially for football, the gulf between the Southern schools --- especially the SEC and the Northern schools --- appears to be growing.

In lacrosse, the number of competitive programs has grown tremendously. Notre Dame used to be a soft game on the schedule. Denver didn't even have a program. The Top 5 teams never lost to a team ranked lower than 10.

 

[rosconey]

relevant and known arent the same thing- su isnt relevent in football by and known measure

 

[TheCusian]

I guess it is possible to have a successful program without all the serious, serious hi-jinks that surrounded the Miami programs. But, it wasn't me that used Miami as an example. I think its an awful example. So is it possible to get all the success and avoid any of the problems and problem children? For SU, its going to be extraordinarily difficult The 1990's may have been the high-water mark for FB, BB and LAX. Especially for football, the gulf between the Southern schools --- especially the SEC and the Northern schools --- appears to be growing. In lacrosse, the number of competitive programs has grown tremendously. Notre Dame used to be a soft game on the schedule. Denver didn't even have a program. The Top 5 teams never lost to a team ranked lower than 10.

You're right. Robert Washington used it as an example. The kid who announced from a church - and I think meant that a few great recruits can turn a program around. I don't think he meant lets wear fatigues and guns.

I don't think it's as hard as you imagine. He's right - a top 15 RB, a top 5 QB, a top 10 DB could change things real quick. Our Defense has been top 40 for a bunch of years with 2-3 star guys. We start grabbing better talent (which started 2 years ago, IMO) - and field a good offense!? Why not us?

Now - onto the 90's. We won the NC in BB in 2003 and the FF recently. The competition in Lacrosse is tougher - but look at the rankings this morning. Football is honestly really exciting all of a sudden. If we land a top 25 class and a FB minded and competent AD? Why not us?

 

[KaiserUEO]

You're right. Robert Washington used it as an example. The kid who announced from a church - and I think meant that a few great recruits can turn a program around. I don't think he meant lets wear fatigues and guns.

I don't think it's as hard as you imagine. He's right - a top 15 RB, a top 5 QB, a top 10 DB could change things real quick. Our Defense has been top 40 for a bunch of years with 2-3 star guys. We start grabbing better talent (which started 2 years ago, IMO) - and field a good offense!? Why not us?

Now - onto the 90's. We won the NC in BB in 2003 and the FF recently. The competition in Lacrosse is tougher - but look at the rankings this morning. Football is honestly really exciting all of a sudden. If we land a top 25 class and a FB minded and competent AD? Why not us?

why not us?? well, we can be really good. we can and should be an 8 win regular and a few Orange Bowls a decade team. but to say we can be ohio st, nd, bama & texas etc...is just ludicrous.

and that is what football has become with the F4.

its a closed party.

the ultimate VIPs of the VIPs Only, Please...event.

hoop is hoop, we good there...for now.

as for lax, what townie is saying makes sense. denver was a nothing and they are #3. suny Albany was D3 when the gaits were here, and now they are #7. take the top kids at Albany and put them in Orange...and we be rollin...

 

[TheCusian]

why not us?? well, we can be really good. we can and should be an 8 win regular and a few Orange Bowls a decade team. but to say we can be ohio st, nd, bama & texas etc...is just ludicrous.

and that is what football has become with the F4.

its a closed party.

the ultimate VIPs of the VIPs Only, Please...event.

hoop is hoop, we good there...for now.

as for lax, what townie is saying makes sense. denver was a nothing and they are #3. suny Albany was D3 when the gaits were here, and now they are #7. take the top kids at Albany and put them in Orange...and we be rollin...

We be rollin NOW. #1 in the country, fresh off an ACC championship.

I never said that we'd become ND, Ohio State, Bama - I was echoing what our newly committed top 15 RB said. That a bunch of really great recruits can change the culture and fortunes of a program, like in the 80's with The U. If you don't believe it's possible - get out of the way. Trains coming.

 

[jekelish]

Honestly, I'll be happy to become a private school who routinely finishes in the top 20 and occasionally has the juice to crash the party, a la TCU or Stanford.

 

[FrancoPizza]

and that is what football has become with the F4.

its a closed party.

Until it goes to 8 in a few years. Then eventually maybe even 16. And if JB gets involved it'll eventually go to 128 and include the Div II champions.

 

[KaiserUEO]

We be rollin NOW. #1 in the country, fresh off an ACC championship.

I never said that we'd become ND, Ohio State, Bama - I was echoing what our newly committed top 15 RB said. That a bunch of really great recruits can change the culture and fortunes of a program, like in the 80's with The U. If you don't believe it's possible - get out of the way. Trains coming.

rollin...is 45-1 and capped by a 21-9 Championship game score.

a bunch of really great recruits can change the culture and fortunes of this program for sure, but this isnt the 80's. we will not be miami.

keep waiting at the station for that 'become the U train'.

ill be at the Port waiting for the 'become the 87-98 Syracuse cruise ship'.

 

[FrancoPizza]

ill be at the Port waiting for the 'become the 87-98 Syracuse cruise ship'.

87-98 was special because SU had unique selling points. The Dome and a refuge for black quarterbacks. We've lost both selling points. At best, we can make the dome remodel/new arena something that is unique and stands out from the other 2nd tier programs. SU's ceiling is 2nd tier, but that means having an outside chance at making the playoffs if everything comes together once every 10 years or whatever... especially when it expands to 8 teams. SU was top 8 in 87 and 92. We can get back there... but not without a huge commitment to Dome 2.0.

 

[TheCusian]

rollin...is 45-1 and capped by a 21-9 Championship game score.

a bunch of really great recruits can change the culture and fortunes of this program for sure, but this isnt the 80's. we will not be miami.

keep waiting at the station for that 'become the U train'.

ill be at the Port waiting for the 'become the 87-98 Syracuse cruise ship'.

Well - I'd argue those days are past. Much the same way UCLA is not winning 10 championships or whatever in BB. Competition is good. Sure talent is spread out more - but winning it all vs tougher field is still "rollin"

I don't want to be Miami - but I'd love the steep rise to greatness on the backs of a few kids who had the guts to choose us when they could go to Bama or Ohio State or Florida.

Whatever means of travel you like, just don't sleep on things getting better around here. It could be nothing - or it could be the start of something great.

 

[billsin01]

why not us?? well, we can be really good. we can and should be an 8 win regular and a few Orange Bowls a decade team. but to say we can be ohio st, nd, bama & texas etc...is just ludicrous.

and that is what football has become with the F4.

its a closed party.

the ultimate VIPs of the VIPs Only, Please...event.

hoop is hoop, we good there...for now.

as for lax, what townie is saying makes sense. denver was a nothing and they are #3. suny Albany was D3 when the gaits were here, and now they are #7. take the top kids at Albany and put them in Orange...and we be rollin...

This. Anyone who has delusions of true relevance in football are crazy. Could it somehow in some crazy way happen for a season? I suppose it's not impossible but that is such a remote possibility that harboring hope for that type of season likely means you'll be disappointed every september barring some sort of drastic sea change in the way football is working.