Syracuse and the Big Ten

[CaliCuse]

This rumor is crap the B1G is expanding for TV boxes and that alone for money for the BTN. Rutgers is going to get the BTN on cable in NYC because of the FOX purchase of YES and the leveraging of the Yankees network to get BTN on the NYC basic cable package. SU is not going to the B1G no more need to discuss it. The B1G wants 2 from the group of UNC/UVA/Duke(only if they are necessary to get UNC)/Ga. Tech and the only reason these schools interest the B1G is for the cable boxes of North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia which are the 3 of the top states that are experiencing population growth. Look at the electoral map and census Pennsylvania lost 1 EV, Ohio lost 2 EVs, Michigan lost 1 EV, Illinois lost 1 EV and North Carolina gained 1 EV, Georgia gained 1 EV, Virginia gained 1 EV. The population is shifting from the rust belt of B1G's region and is moving into the SEC/ACC territory. Delany is trying to expand his markets to make the B1G more money. Syracuse in NY which lost 2 EV isn't going to get the B1G anymore money that is why the UConn idiots holding out for the B1G are completely clueless. If the ACC shows solidarity the only school that would be willing to move is Florida State and that is to the SEC the B1G won't take Florida State most likely because the academic elitist programs Michigan, Northwestern etc. don't want another outlaw program like Nebraska in Florida State.

IFSyracuse was ever in a position to be invited and go to the B-10 they would need to demand and get a huge increase in $. The additional cost in travel alone would require that to happen. The fan base for the local team would need to be excited enough to assure numbers consistently over 45Kper home game keep from being a bottom feeder also ran in the conference.like Temple was in the BE.

 

[Alsacs]

IFSyracuse was ever in a position to be invited and go to the B-10 they would need to demand and get a huge increase in $. The additional cost in travel alone would require that to happen. The fan base for the local team would need to be excited enough to assure numbers consistently over 45Kper home game keep from being a bottom feeder also ran in the conference.like Temple was in the BE.

LOL, your kidding right? If and I am a BIG if the B1G invited Syracuse into the conference we would be in NO position to negotiate what Maryland got in travel subsidy and the revenue would likely be more than we would make in the ACC and thus we wouldn't need to demand an increase in $. Football attendance would only increase if we in a division with Penn State and one of Michigan/Ohio State. The Dome wouldn't rock for Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Maryland, Rutgers, Minnesota, Northwestern, Rutgers teams like Michigan State or Wisconsin MAYBE, but I don't the B1G is even an option and thus shouldn't even be discussed. The B1G is all about cable boxes for the BTN and the B1G is going to get NYC because of YES/NY Yankees leverage due to FOX's purchase. The Steinbrenner sons really F'ed the customers in the NYC/NY area by selling out a majority to stake to News Corp/FOX. Those dolts took the $$$ and gave Delany/FOX Sports the leverage they needed. The B1G wants to get into the South and ACC country because North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia all exploding population wise and that means more $$$ for the BTN and the B1G.

 

[bevosu]

Penn State fans and followers haven't been all that thrilled with their time in the Big ten. Maryland fans really aren't excited about the prospect. Money looks good, but the travel and loss of rivalries trumps that for the fans.

 

[thorpedo]

Well Loh made the decision to go. So he has a problem. Along with the new AD. He's been called an "outsider" and a Big Ten loyalist who has no idea what was at stake here. The AD too.

If you read the WaPo they are looking at the process and the lack of transparency of it, suggesting that it was improper or even illegal. Loh insists the B1G made them do it that way. But that doesn't make it right or legal. When I hear that sort of talk, I get the sense that they are going to go after the guy. It's not the wisdom of the decision or even the necessity of the decision, it's the legality of the process? Yeah right. But they finally got Al Capone for income tax evasion.

Only Loh and the Maryland financial people wanted this. Everyone else was against it. Nobody I know wanted to switch conferences and play in the B1G. Nobody. And after Maryland BB victory against Duke this year, people were outraged.

The University PR blitz that tried to sell this as great to the general fan base fell flat.

The carping is never going to stop. There's no enthusiasm for it. And there's a precedent for the fans to literally force a Maryland Chancellor out of office. That's what happened in the wake of the Bias death and the firing of Lefty when they put Wade in as basketball coach..

Of course none of the outraged were going to have to pay the bills. But that doesn't matter to them.

WVU has started bellyaching about the cost of travel and the disruption to student academic schedules. Maryland can't say a word. And remeber the B1G money just really gets them up to breakeven. This isn't some huge bonanza here. (Same with Rutgers who was running a $25M deficit and grabbing student funds and general revenue funds to balance the Athletic Department books.)

Is there a chance (even the slimmest) that Maryland would get so much negative resentment that they may rethink their stance and stay? Is it legally possible? Its a very interesting topic and I would have to agree that the Maryland fans I know are "angry elves" at this time about the move.

 

[Resonator]

Better fit or not, the B1G is the most stable conference there is and it makes enormous amounts of money. No threat of being left out in the cold due to expansion, very competitive in football and basketball, and a lot of money available for the athletic department and research... we would be fools not to entertain and listen to the offers. The others in the ACC don't care about us, therefore I won't care too about them (fan-wise).

I think you underestimate ACC fans. Or, the majority of them, at least. Any fan who knows SU's history in both football and basketball is more than happy to see you join this league. Especially for basketball. That said, there ARE staunch traditionalists who hated even adding FSU back in '91.

I'd personally rather be in the ACC if it were to stay as it is. That said, it's a shaky situation right now and it could collapse if certain things don't go according to plan. The Maryland suit would have to be settled first also.

And, we are glad to have you in this league.

As for the shaky situation, relax. Neither UNC, UVA, nor Tech, are going anywhere. This league would have to be burning to the ground before any of them leave. And, its not burning to the ground.

 

[PhatOrange]

If the Yankees tank now how much demand would there be to pay more for the channel?

 

[Resonator]

Personally, I like the ACC better than the B1G for Syracuse. I wish the conference had one or two less North Carolina teams just for balance. But other than Wake, I can't see anyone I would want to jettison.

I can understand why fans say this. But, you have to remember, all four of us were rivals long before the ACC ever existed. I cannot imagine Carolina not being in the same conference as NCSU, Duke, or, Wake.

 

[Resonator]

Penn State fans and followers haven't been all that thrilled with their time in the Big ten. Maryland fans really aren't excited about the prospect. Money looks good, but the travel and loss of rivalries trumps that for the fans.

Wasn't one of the rumors floated that the B10 took UMD and RU as a way to give PSU 'eastern' rivals, and thus, prevent a possible move to the ACC?

 

[Alsacs]

Wasn't one of the rumors floated that the B10 took UMD and RU as a way to give PSU 'eastern' , and thus, prevent a possible move to the ACC?

It was, their were rumblings from local Penn St media about looking at the ACC because of the sanctions from the NCAA and the B1G even piling on by withholding Penn St any B1G bowl money. Delany added 2 eastern schools for the media markets of Washington D.C. and New York City/New Jersey area and their cable boxes. If the B1G didn't add Maryland I believe when Notre Dame eventually commits the ACC full time that Penn State would have been a real viable candidate to be the 16th team and the Penn State fanbase would have been on-board.
Edit: here is the article which was written literally right before Maryland jumped ship.
http://blog.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2012/11/a_move_to_the_acc_could_bring.html

 

[Btstimpy]

Wasn't one of the rumors floated that the B10 took UMD and RU as a way to give PSU 'eastern' , and thus, prevent a possible move to the ACC?

It wasn't a rumor. It was a direct quote from Barry Alvarez, the AD at the University of Wisconsin. What I've not been able to tell is what Penn State actually thinks about it. There has been zero comment from anyone at Penn State.

 

[Townie72]

Is there a chance (even the slimmest) that Maryland would get so much negative resentment that they may rethink their stance and stay? Is it legally possible? Its a very interesting topic and I would have to agree that the Maryland fans I know are "angry elves" at this time about the move.

I really can't say.

But if the process that was used was found to be illegal or improper, it might void the acceptance.

Depends on how hard the anti-Big Ten forces want to push this and if politicians sense a winner here and sign on.

 

[Resonator]

It was, their were rumblings from local Penn St media about looking at the ACC because of the sanctions from the NCAA and the B1G even piling on by withholding Penn St any B1G bowl money. Delany added 2 eastern schools for the media markets of Washington D.C. and New York City/New Jersey area and their cable boxes. If the B1G didn't add Maryland I believe when Notre Dame eventually commits the ACC full time that Penn State would have been a real viable candidate to be the 16th team and the Penn State fanbase would have been on-board.
Edit: here is the article which was written literally right before Maryland jumped ship.
http://blog.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2012/11/a_move_to_the_acc_could_bring.html

Just the PSU fans I know are split over whether or not they think the school would ever join the ACC. The older ones like me (I'm 50 y/o) are partial to the ACC, since thats where many of their old rivals. The younger ones only know of PSU being in the B10, so, thats where their loyalty is.

 

[Resonator]

It wasn't a rumor. It was a direct quote from Barry Alvarez, the AD at the University of Wisconsin. What I've not been able to tell is what Penn State actually thinks about it. There has been zero comment from anyone at Penn State.

Alvarez is not one to just say something like that, just for the sake of saying it.

That nobody at PSU has come out and denied it means there was probably something to it.

 

[Resonator]

I really can't say.

But if the process that was used was found to be illegal or improper, it might void the acceptance.

Depends on how hard the anti-Big Ten forces want to push this and if politicians sense a winner here and sign on.

I would hope that the ACC would tell UMD 'Good luck to you, but, no thanks. We're good.'

 

[bnoro]

If we went to the Big 10 I'd be so disappointed. We will never succeed in football there, and basketball recruiting will definitely struggle.

 

[omniorange]

This rumor is crap the B1G is expanding for TV boxes and that alone for money for the BTN. Rutgers is going to get the BTN on cable in NYC because of the FOX purchase of YES and the leveraging of the Yankees network to get BTN on the NYC basic cable package.

While I have no doubt such a strategy could be applied, the assumption it will automatically work, especially now with the Yankees heading into a down cycle that could last for a decade or more (and I'm a Yankees fan) hardly makes it a slam dunk strategy.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[All4SU]

I can understand why fans say this. But, you have to remember, all four of us were long before the ACC ever existed. I cannot imagine Carolina not being in the same conference as NCSU, Duke, or, Wake.

That's fine. I'm just saying the conference would be even more interesting if four of the teams weren't in NC. Lets face it, NC isn't FLA or Texas or California. As I said, I'm not sure who you would cut -- and I know that it isn't going to happen anyway. If you were building a conference from scratch, you wouldn't choose four all in the same state.

 

[44PRIDE]

I would hope that the ACC would tell UMD 'Good luck to you, but, no thanks. We're good.'

I understand the desire to tell UMD (the institution) to go pound salt. However, this is about money...and UMD (the TV market) is entirely too prime an area to lose on a petty grievance.

If they wanted back in the ACC, I'm sure they'd be allowed back...given the correct amount of public groveling.

 

[nzm136]

I want to clarify several things:
1. Neither the B1G nor the CIC directly increase research dollars. For the most part, they pool buying to keep costs down. Other than that, they do not do much.
2. There was a rumor that SU, Pitt, ND, and BC (I think) were the targets in 2010 to enter the conference along with Nebraska, but that (obviously) fell through. Either way, it shows that Syracuse isn't inherently barred from B1G entry.
3. 13/14 of the B1G members are AAU, but Wisconsin and Michigan headeed up the effort to boot Nebraska from the AAU after Nebraska had been invited to the B1G. With that in mind, I'm not sold that those schools care about only adding AAU members. I doubt Nebraska cares, because they are not AAU, and I'm pretty sure PSU, RU, and UMD just want Northeastern friends. The Patriot News (Harrisburg paper) has publicly supported adding Pitt and Syracuse. Obviously the paper doesn't call the shots, but I do think that it indicates how PSU feels. That's 6/14 that I know of who don't care about AAU status. Throw in Northwestern, who I'm sure would kill to not be the only private school, even if it meant adding a non-AAU school. That would make it 7/14. Now don't get me wrong, those 7 schools might not vote for SU, but I think that under the right conditions, they would vote for a non-AAU school.
4. In terms of revenue, SU matches up will with most non-HUGE schools. We obviously don't have as much income as Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Florida, LSU, Alabama, Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Penn State, but we aren't a small fish either.


None the less, barring a complete failure of the ACC, I would rather be in the ACC than the B1G. I'm happy where we are and hope everything stays pat.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Is there a chance (even the slimmest) that Maryland would get so much negative resentment that they may rethink their stance and stay? Is it legally possible? Its a very interesting topic and I would have to agree that the Maryland fans I know are "angry elves" at this time about the move.

It all depends on the outcome of the lawsuit. Others may disagree, but if Maryland loses the suit and has to pay the full $50M, that might force them to reverse their decision.

 

[SU2NASA]

Chance of going to big ten is equal to the girl at work that has turned me down for dinner about five times equation equals 0 percent on both fronts. 0 interest. But I'm sure if I win the lottery the interest will go up to ten percent.

So you're telling me there's a chance.

 

[Jeepers]

I think Delaney has his list of who he wants, and what it would take to get them. Don't think he cares too much about how he gets there. So, I really wouldn't be surprised if it ends with a really big conference, split in half.

Sure, we're all pretty much universally behind the ACC being a better fit. But if expansion really blew up and we were in a half of the B10 with PSU, RU, UConn, BC, Maryland, plus whoever...I'd be pretty happy with that.

 

[riskylogic]

I can understand why fans say this. But, you have to remember, all four of us were long before the ACC ever existed. I cannot imagine Carolina not being in the same conference as NCSU, Duke, or, Wake.

I can imagine an NCSU/Vandy trade, where all parties are happy. Might need a $25-$50 mil sweetener for Vandy, but that should do it.

 

[riskylogic]

I would hope that the ACC would tell UMD 'Good luck to you, but, no thanks. We're good.'

If they are willing to pay 50 mil to stay in the ACC, I say let 'em.

 

[cuseinchina]

Anyone who either was at the final 4 this weekend, or has walked around the bars of Lincoln Park in Chicago on a Saturday, could tell you that we are not a good fit for the Big 10 and are so much better off and more appropriate in the ACC. Culture matters a great deal, and our culture is very well suited to the ACC particularly with half of the historical Big East playing in that league. (Not withstanding the 1000 + kids from Westchester who apply to both Michigan and Syracuse every year).