Thamel gives some names | Page 27 | Syracusefan.com

Thamel gives some names

It can help you win lots of games in the P5 if you do it the right way like Kansas St. Have to know what you're doing though.
Most of the times these adds are very late adds after we’ve whiffed on other prospects. We added so many late JUCO’s this cycle out of nowhere that I lost count.

It’s more or less a statement that we need to recruit better.
 
It is the same schemes. So how does White being HC instead of Dino improve things? If you want to keep the 3-3-5 you can by keeping Dino. No need to fire him.

If the problem on O was injuries, why fire Dino? Especially if you keep the same OC next year?

Is White going to get QB, WR, and OL kids that Dino could not?

White was part of no show teams in 2020-2022 so why will that change in 2024?

You are advocating keeping both the O and D the same. Wouldn't that also be the case with Dino as HC? So why fire him?
No, if you're an AD and you like a particular defensive scheme as well as the Defensive Coordinator who ran said scheme, when you fire the coach who bought the DC & his scheme in, it's only logical to consider replacing the fired coach with the coach who impressed you. Maybe similar logic applies to Beck as well.

Why fire Dino? Have you not seen the last eight years of his losing, his head scratching coaching decisions and mostly mediocre recruiting? Did you miss all the embarrassing blow out losses on National TV? How many games did DB lose almost single-handedly bc of his poor clock management, his ill timed punts or FG attempts, drive killing or drive extending penalties bc of a lack of discipline on his teams? Babers was a nice man who represented SU well but he was a lousy coach with a terrible record and who offered zero upside moving forward - that's why you fire him.

I'm not advocating for keeping things "the same" - I'm simply speculating on why White might appeal to JW as a candidate.

IF Wildhack has taken a liking to the 3-3-5 D bc he thinks its a sustainable and effective scheme that fits SU-type athletes, he would logically consider and be attracted to a candidate like White who specializes in the defense he likes. And maybe JW sees other attributes in TW that lead him to believe TW can lead a winning program.

Different sport, different era but back in the day, the Lakers fired their well known coach and took a chance on Pat Riley who was a coaching nobody at the time and the rest is history. Riles did the same thing in Miami when he hired a little known former video asst. in Spoelstra. In both cases, the person in position to hire the unproven coaches saw something special in each man and then acted on their convictions.

If ADJW really sees something special in White, Beck, Nunzio or any other coaches he's worked with at SU, it's in the program's best interest to keep the most talented folks around. So imho, if JW has legitimate interest in TW (or whoever) it's because he's been convinced that they can be part of the revived, winning culture he's trying to establish with the coaching change.

You can't throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. If some talented, promising coaches happen to emerge from the ruins of the Babers era, they shouldn't be dismissed as potential good replacements for DB or fits on the next staff just because of it. And again, it's all message board speculation based on rumor, but if the reports of JW's high interest in White are accurate, then I'd have to believe that's Wildhack's take as well.
 
Offense sells tickets and is exciting to watch.

We need both in the dome, we thought we had this in Dino to only find out it was the work of Sean Lewis.

I’m not opposed to Sean but a proven leader with an offensive mindset would be great. Chip Kelly is the ideal hire in this mold but it’s not a given he’s leaving UCLA
Offense sells tickets and we are an obvious place for a high octane air raid offense with the Dome. The only problem is all of Lewis teams at Kent were terrible on defense. Also, the northeast doesn’t have those type of athletes. We tend to do our best with defensive led teams . Losing 78-61 was almost as bad as 13–10. I wouldn’t look to hire for any side of the ball specifically. I would just take the best possible coach we can get.
 
Offense sells tickets and we are an obvious place for a high octane air raid offense with the Dome. The only problem is all of Lewis teams at Kent were terrible on defense. Also, the northeast doesn’t have those type of athletes. We tend to do our best with defensive led teams . Losing 78-61 was almost as bad as 13–10. I wouldn’t look to hire for any side of the ball specifically. I would just take the best possible coach we can get.
Lewis was gone before 2018.

Winning sells tickets. Offense starts with a scheme that puts the oline in a position to succeed. Like what Elko has brought to Duke. (Sort of. Lol)We are a developmental program. It starts there. If you think we'll bring 4 and 5 stars, by all means, grab an XO guy. If you think we'll bring 3 stars? We need a developer.
 
Here is my thinking only…

When you get to this level the margin for error is tiny but the difference in results is huge. It’s the same reason a low end Tour player is closer to weekend club olayer than to Tiger or Rory.

Dino is not “that far off” in the grand scheme but it is the culmination of small issues that creates a pretty big gap in the results. So I think someone like Tony can hone in on some of these things and show a lot of improvement without reinventing the wheel.

That leaves aside the whole who wants to coach here stuff…which impacts the whole thing even more

What has White done to prove he can fix Dino's issues?

And IMO he is far off.
 
1 - I laugh at people that bring up coaches because they could bring some guys with them. So what happens when they graduate? I want the best coach, not who may bring some good players.

2- Unfortunately, Syracuse is a stepping stone school. But so are a lot of other schools. It’s unrealistic to hire someone and expect them to be here for 20 years. As someone else posted in this thread, Oklahoma lost a coach, ND lost a coach, Penn State lost a coach. Everyone loses coaches for one reason or another. If someone wants our coach, that means our coach was successful and did his job. Much easier to hire someone to keep something going rather than building it from the ground up.

3- The more I think about it, the more Sean Lewis excites me. Clearly Lewis was the mastermind of the offense. Once he left, we had one solid year of offense, Dungeys final year. Then it was all downhill from there. We hired Dino because of his offense. Little did we know, it was actually Lewis’ offense. Dino was lost without Lewis. Lewis also has head coaching experience. The guy did things at Kent State, arguably the worst MAC head coaching job and did things at Kent State that haven’t been done since the 60’s. Then he goes to Colorado and has his offense averaging 35 points per game before being demoted. Since then, only 21 points per game. So innovative offensive coach, it’s his offense, so offensive philosophy would always be here as long as he was, previous head coaching experience at an extremely difficult place to win.

4- Still all in on Chesney though. Guys lost 8 games in 3 years. Beat D1 teams UConn and UB. 12-1 last year, only loss was in playoffs to champion South Dakota state. Lost by 21, but was actually the closest playoff game they played. They won the championship against North Dakota state by 24!! This year 7-4 but 2 loses against D1 teams, at Army and at BC. Lost both by 3 points. He essentially as successful against these D1 teams as Dino was, and he’s at an FCS school!!!

re #2
If the HC leaves the cupboard bare then no that isn't a good thing.

re #3
Does it worry you at all how bad Kent State is this year? Kind of liek how bad Bowling Green was when Dino left? Which brings us back to point #2.
 
No, if you're an AD and you like a particular defensive scheme as well as the Defensive Coordinator who ran said scheme, when you fire the coach who bought the DC & his scheme in, it's only logical to consider replacing the fired coach with the coach who impressed you. Maybe similar logic applies to Beck as well.

Why fire Dino? Have you not seen the last eight years of his losing, his head scratching coaching decisions and mostly mediocre recruiting? Did you miss all the embarrassing blow out losses on National TV? How many games did DB lose almost single-handedly bc of his poor clock management, his ill timed punts or FG attempts, drive killing or drive extending penalties bc of a lack of discipline on his teams? Babers was a nice man who represented SU well but he was a lousy coach with a terrible record and who offered zero upside moving forward - that's why you fire him.

I'm not advocating for keeping things "the same" - I'm simply speculating on why White might appeal to JW as a candidate.

IF Wildhack has taken a liking to the 3-3-5 D bc he thinks its a sustainable and effective scheme that fits SU-type athletes, he would logically consider and be attracted to a candidate like White who specializes in the defense he likes. And maybe JW sees other attributes in TW that lead him to believe TW can lead a winning program.

Different sport, different era but back in the day, the Lakers fired their well known coach and took a chance on Pat Riley who was a coaching nobody at the time and the rest is history. Riles did the same thing in Miami when he hired a little known former video asst. in Spoelstra. In both cases, the person in position to hire the unproven coaches saw something special in each man and then acted on their convictions.

If ADJW really sees something special in White, Beck, Nunzio or any other coaches he's worked with at SU, it's in the program's best interest to keep the most talented folks around. So imho, if JW has legitimate interest in TW (or whoever) it's because he's been convinced that they can be part of the revived, winning culture he's trying to establish with the coaching change.

You can't throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. If some talented, promising coaches happen to emerge from the ruins of the Babers era, they shouldn't be dismissed as potential good replacements for DB or fits on the next staff just because of it. And again, it's all message board speculation based on rumor, but if the reports of JW's high interest in White are accurate, then I'd have to believe that's Wildhack's take as well.

You cannot win in college football with a good D and just try to figure out the O.

Off the top of my head NC State has needed to go to there 3rd Q the last two seasons. Stanford this year as well. VA Tech to their 2nd. Yet all of these teams were still functional on O. The fact that the last two seasons when Shrader got an owie the entire O broke is a major red flag on Beck. We have what 100 yards passing the last 3 games combined? The fact that we cannot throw a forward pass when our starter gets hurt is a reason to dumb the bath water.

You don't hire from within when you have a dysfunctional O and a losing culture. And you still have answered why would we expect White to improve on Dino's inefficiencies when White has no record of fixing any of those issues?


Edit

I am not saying I am opposed to White as HC. But if you hire him, a big reason is his DC skills. If he delegates that, then you take away that advantage. He should be HC/DC. I don't want Long as DC, who IMO was mediocre at best this year. The O is a complete mess. It doesn't get fixed keeping status quo. If White is hired, then everyone but Nunzio should be let go.

Just swapping out the head and keeping everything else should be unacceptable. That does nothing to address the real issues. Also JW is not some FB guru who can go on gut feeling, there needs to be some analytical reason he chooses a new HC. And he cannot just go on who he knows when that pool is extremely limited. It would be completely irresponsible.
 
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Lewis was gone before 2018.

Winning sells tickets. Offense starts with a scheme that puts the oline in a position to succeed. Like what Elko has brought to Duke. (Sort of. Lol)We are a developmental program. It starts there. If you think we'll bring 4 and 5 stars, by all means, grab an XO guy. If you think we'll bring 3 stars? We need a developer.

There is no indication that Lewis can have a functional OL and keep his QB upright. It is a big reason why he was demoted.
 
I like all of Cignetti, Chesney & Candle. All 3 have built a program of sustained success. Two of them did it in the NE - which I think holds value.

Any of them is a win imo, three good candidates as far as you can predict from here. All 3 Syracuse would be a step up for. All 3 would be looking at significant compensation upgrades.
 
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I would think it’s more like the nfl with free agency. Not totally reliant on high schoolers. The school would need to commit to providing resources to support talent acquisition.
Does he have folders on the NIL?
 
It is a rebuild on O. We have no QBs, WRs, or OL. Can't do much with just Villari and Allen.
Go I love you but we have no qb or line.

What would you call that? Plus day 1 is to convince villari and allen to stay. Odds are one or both leave

It’s a full rebuild and it’s better that way.
 
I would be concerned about hiring coordinators from B1G blueblood programs--their recent history is not good, e.g. Ash and Durkin.
Add hafley from Ohio st to bc. He’s been….fine
 
I will also add while I like the 3-3-5 it is not some competitive advantage. A bunch of teams are running it now. There is nothing unique about it. Also, it isn't like we cannot run it without White.

Shafer was able to run the 4-3 with similar D results. I don't think it is a good idea to go back to the 4-3 (3-3-5, 3-4, or 4-2-5 all better IMO). That being said, playing a 3-3-5 isn't going to win us a bunch of games over a 4-3 coach.

We need a HC who can build a solid foundation with Northeast HS recruits, get playmakers via the portal, and fix/coach up the O. The D formation is way down the list of importance. Hiring a HC based mainly on D formation seems like doing things backwards.
 
Marrone in a NIL and portal world seems like a disaster. Great on game days, but not equipped for the other parts of the gig.
I think he might be pretty good in the portal. Easier for him to see footage of players in games from lower levels that could make the jump. He's probably pretty good at evaluating. His transfers did well.
 
If I have time I'm going to watch some Holy Cross football to get a better idea of Chesney. Remember watching Dino and the O was fun but saw a lot of penalties and that stuck in my head from his BG days.

I like the Eagle OL coach as #1
Lewis with Rocky as DC
Chesney if I like what I see
Marrone IFF he is truly committed
White if he can get a proven OC
 
I think he might be pretty good in the portal. Easier for him to see footage of players in games from lower levels that could make the jump. He's probably pretty good at evaluating. His transfers did well.
He did do a good job bringing in contributors

Hay and Tiller on the line come to mind.

Siriki Diabate at LB is another one.

I also forgot he landed Dontez Ford for a year before Ford transferred to Pitt (I believe after Doug left) and is now a WR in the league.

Doug could identify and develop.
 
I like Jason Candle - Toledo Head Coach - I think that's exactly what we want

Head coach for Toledo for 9 years
64-33 Record in 9 years
Never had a losing season
Has had good/great season every couple years 10-1 & 11-3


This is exactly the type of record I want at Syracuse. Only issue is I read he is one of four candidates for Mich St ob
 
I’d be happy with someone who understands how to use timeouts properly, doesn’t kick 50 plus yarders while down 14 plus on 4th and 3, and who has a distaste for his finger and shows any semblance of passion for victory.

I thought Dino was all that when he had me close my eyes and imagine. Now I close my eyes during the games. I’m glad it’s over and just hope for the best going forward.

Whether we get the next hire right or not I have no idea but I know we got the firing right.
 
re #2
If the HC leaves the cupboard bare then no that isn't a good thing.

re #3
Does it worry you at all how bad Kent State is this year? Kind of liek how bad Bowling Green was when Dino left? Which brings us back to point #2.

Kent state lost 12 guys to the transfer portal when Lewis left. QB went to UCLA, 3 WR’s went to Penn State, WVU, North Carolina. 2 players to Colorado, 1 player to UCF. Kicker to Ohio State, 2 more CB’s to Fresno State and WVU.

That’s a ton of talent that left with him. The cupboard was not bare. It became bare because their coach left.
 
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And Marrone’s kid plays at Colgate. Maybe he’d like to be in the neighborhood again.
I skip a lot of Syracuse games to see my kids play rinky dink fall ball baseball/softball. Maybe the kid at Colgate means he wouldn't want the job because of the conflict
 

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