The All Inclusive 2022-2023 Recruiting thread

[TheCusian]

We've gone all the way from worst in the ACC up to the worst in the ACC. Incredible work.

Pretty sure if any of us were hired to improve a product that was the worst one on the market, not a single person would be celebrating the fact that while slightly better they were still the worst product on the market. People would be let go.

silly and uninformed

 

[Entropic]

silly and uninformed

Is it wrong? The data shows syracuse at the bottom of the ACC year after year. Our average rating has improved over a decade but so has every other team in the ACC thus keeping us in last. Disagree if you want but provide justification rather than insults. I don’t have insider info so i have to rely on public data. I'm as informed as feasible before I type things.

 

[TheCusian]

Is it wrong? The data shows syracuse at the bottom of the ACC year after year. Our average rating has improved over a decade but so has every other team in the ACC thus keeping us in last. Disagree if you want but provide justification rather than insults. I don’t have insider info so i have to rely on public data. I'm as informed as feasible before I type things.

Re-check the bottom “year after year” for one. 2nd - they’ve been here one year? How fair is it to judge based on one year of output? 3rd the rankings are typically a “total number” and we didn’t need a full class this year. 4th - Bostic was involved with transfer recruits that have nothing to do with that ranking. And we’ve been successful there, IMO

 

[Entropic]

Re-check the bottom “year after year” for one. 2nd - they’ve been here one year? How fair is it to judge based on one year of output? 3rd the rankings are typically a “total number” and we didn’t need a full class this year. 4th - Bostic was involved with transfer recruits that have nothing to do with that ranking. And we’ve been successful there, IMO

As i stated i looked at the average rating because I'm aware the total scores are based on total number of recruits. Syracuse has the lowest average and have been consistently in the bottom of the ACC year over year. I'm unsure how people are claiming that the recruiting staff is killing it. Theres no statistical evidence to back that up that statement. We are what we always have been since joining the ACC. There's a zillion transfers in the portal and it'll be great if who we got work out but the highest rated transfers are completely untested because they didnt play and were recuited over and the others are JUCO and FCS. Again i hope they work out great but lets hold off on the claims of amazing work until theres a product on the field that demonstrates it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

At the end of the day it’s pretty much an entry level position that most people in that age group with some good energy, hard work and social media skills could do just fine. if and when she moves on which she will I am not for a second going to lament like this is even some type of loss. I mean some around here cry in their beer over an admin in the football office moving on as if it will have some huge effect on program. Nothing against this hard working young woman but let’s get serious and yes she appears to be doing a good job

 

[CuseLegacy]

At the end of the day it’s pretty much an entry level position that most people in that age group with some good energy, hard work and social media skills could do just fine. if and when she moves on which she will I am not for a second going to lament like this is even some type of loss. I mean some around here cry in their beer over an admin in the football office moving on as if it will have some huge effect on program. Nothing against this hard working young woman but let’s get serious and yes she appears to be doing a good job

Entry level? No. She's already had jobs with the NFL and MLS.

 

[SuFTW]

As i stated i looked at the average rating because I'm aware the total scores are based on total number of recruits. Syracuse has the lowest average and have been consistently in the bottom of the ACC year over year. I'm unsure how people are claiming that the recruiting staff is killing it. Theres no statistical evidence to back that up that statement. We are what we always have been since joining the ACC. There's a zillion transfers in the portal and it'll be great if who we got work out but the highest rated transfers are completely untested because they didnt play and were recuited over and the others are JUCO and FCS. Again i hope they work out great but let’s hold off on the claims of amazing work until theres a product on the field that demonstrates it.

They are bringing people in and making connections, but ultimately it is up to the coaching staff to close the deal.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Entry level? No. She's already had jobs with the NFL and MLS.

meh. Yeah entry level

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We've gone all the way from worst in the ACC up to the worst in the ACC. Incredible work.

Pretty sure if any of us were hired to improve a product that was the worst one on the market, not a single person would be celebrating the fact that while slightly better they were still the worst product on the market. People would be let go.

Doesn’t work that way in basketball recruiting

 

[TheCusian]

As i stated i looked at the average rating because I'm aware the total scores are based on total number of recruits. Syracuse has the lowest average and have been consistently in the bottom of the ACC year over year. I'm unsure how people are claiming that the recruiting staff is killing it. Theres no statistical evidence to back that up that statement. We are what we always have been since joining the ACC. There's a zillion transfers in the portal and it'll be great if who we got work out but the highest rated transfers are completely untested because they didnt play and were recuited over and the others are JUCO and FCS. Again i hope they work out great but lets hold off on the claims of amazing work until theres a product on the field that demonstrates it.

Didn’t say we were killing it. You said “consistently the worst” which isn’t true.

I’d go with the folks that know recruiting and the players and families that have come in contact with the two staff in question. One identifies and contacts recruits and the other is an on campus planning/host type. The early returns are good, but we won’t have more than anecdotal and first hand accounts just yet.

So at best, your argument would be to give them an “incomplete”… I’m factoring in what we know from people within the program and it seems like they are both good at their jobs.

 

[Entropic]

Didn’t say we were killing it. You said “consistently the worst” which isn’t true.

I’d go with the folks that know recruiting and the players and families that have come in contact with the two staff in question. One identifies and contacts recruits and the other is an on campus planning/host type. The early returns are good, but we won’t have more than anecdotal and first hand accounts just yet.

So at best, your argument would be to give them an “incomplete”… I’m factoring in what we know from people within the program and it seems like they are both good at their jobs.

Last 5 years the average rating of our recruits have placed in the ACC as 13th, 13th, 13th, 14th and 14th.

Pretty consistent to me. (Shrugs)

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Last 5 years the average rating of our recruits have placed in the ACC as 13th, 13th, 13th, 14th and 14th.

Pretty consistent to me. (Shrugs)

and we were 4-4 in the ACC this year. could be worse. People are going to make themselves crazy with these recruiting rankings. After the top 10 don’t think it matters all that much and I certainly don’t think that employees such as this matter much either. Are they 100% necessary? Absolutely. Replaceable? Highly

 

[baggerbob]

Last 5 years the average rating of our recruits have placed in the ACC as 13th, 13th, 13th, 14th and 14th.

Pretty consistent to me. (Shrugs)

And last year The player of the year in NJ, Allen had 9 Rutgers recruits rated higher then him. Dohn does the 247 rating for the east and that proves what a homer he is. It also reflects in our ratings.
Rutgers doesn't have 9 players on their team as good as Allen. If he gets a 9.1 like Dohn gave a few Rutgers players we move up.
And how many other of our recruits does he underate?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And last year The player of the year in NJ, Allen had 9 Rutgers recruits rated higher then him. Dohn does the 247 rating for the east and that proves what a homer he is. It also reflects in our ratings.
Rutgers doesn't have 9 players on their team as good as Allen. If he gets a 9.1 like Dohn gave a few Rutgers players we move up.
And how many other of our recruits does he underate?

i would prefer to just evaluate Syracuse football under Dino (moving forward) that 6-6 is minimum expectation. 7-5 is pretty good certainly not great but I’ll take it. It’s up to him to bring in recruits to meet expectations set by wildhack but what I won’t do is fret one way or another that some goofball on the internet who has bias and alterior motives rates our class the # 74 or the # 42. Don’t think it matters much at all even if their intention is just to fairly evaluate I still don’t care

 

[Entropic]

and we were 4-4 in the ACC this year. could be worse. People are going to make themselves crazy with these recruiting rankings. After the top 10 don’t think it matters all that much and I certainly don’t think that employees such as this matter much either. Are they 100% necessary? Absolutely. Replaceable? Highly

I do think ratings matter but at the same time I understand that offers and ultimately where they decide to go also impact the ratings so things can get skewed. A borderline 4 star going to bama becomes a solid 4 star. A borderline 4 star coming to Syracuse is going to stay a borderline 4 star. I'm willing to bet we would all rather have FSU's and Clemson's classes than fighting with BC and Wake for worst class even if the ratings aren't the end all be all.

It ultimately comes down to coaching for most positions especially for the mid tier schools. With that said, we have been one of the two lowest rated schools for recruit average in the ACC and its been reflected by the on field play. I believe 3 star defenders are usually better and take less work to produce on the field than 3 stars on offense. I don't have any stats to back it up its just my perception. But that is why the defense is more productive than the offense.

I get hung up on weird stuff on here and I'm aware I absolutely piss some people off. I'm an analytical person, my life revolves around data so I always start there. Some people have eyes for looking at how someone is improving through subtle movements of their hips opening up in coverage. I have to look at a comprehensive stat line to draw conclusions. I know that means I miss the more nuanced stuff.

 

[djorange1989]

i would prefer to just evaluate Syracuse football under Dino (moving forward) that 6-6 is minimum expectation. 7-5 is pretty good certainly not great but I’ll take it. It’s up to him to bring in recruits to meet expectations set by wildhack but what I won’t do is fret one way or another that some goofball on the internet who has bias and alterior motives rates our class the # 74 or the # 42. Don’t think it matters much at all even if their intention is just to fairly evaluate I still don’t care

Yep the difference between 35 and 70 is generally one rating point/number of players signed. That is negligible, if we develop our players we meet JW/rational fan expectations, if we don’t it’s because we didn’t develop our players well enough, not because our kids were rated 85 and Boston College were rated 86

 

[Xanadu]

Is it wrong? The data shows syracuse at the bottom of the ACC year after year. Our average rating has improved over a decade but so has every other team in the ACC thus keeping us in last. Disagree if you want but provide justification rather than insults. I don’t have insider info so i have to rely on public data. I'm as informed as feasible before I type things.

I promise you that ADJW and HCDB do not refer to 247 rankings in the metrics when they make decisions about the recruiting staff, thankfully. Rankings are meaningless in comparison to many other metrics regarding recruiting coordinators.

How a recruiter identifies talent and opportunity to build a relationship

How a recruiter builds and manages a network

How a recruiter is able to coordinator and manage visits

How a recruiter is able to establish, manage, and update internal databases that provide good visualization and the ability to make decisions on where to place effort.

This is the most talented and well resourced recruiting team SU has ever had and it resulted in some excellent finds in the HS, JUCO, and transfer market. Our official visit numbers in a single weekend rivaled Clemson/FSU for once instead of UCONN. That results in 2024/2025/2026 interest and interest drives success.

 

[TheCusian]

I do think ratings matter but at the same time I understand that offers and ultimately where they decide to go also impact the ratings so things can get skewed. A borderline 4 star going to bama becomes a solid 4 star. A borderline 4 star coming to Syracuse is going to stay a borderline 4 star. I'm willing to bet we would all rather have FSU's and Clemson's classes than fighting with BC and Wake for worst class even if the ratings aren't the end all be all.

It ultimately comes down to coaching for most positions especially for the mid tier schools. With that said, we have been one of the two lowest rated schools for recruit average in the ACC and its been reflected by the on field play. I believe 3 star defenders are usually better and take less work to produce on the field than 3 stars on offense. I don't have any stats to back it up its just my perception. But that is why the defense is more productive than the offense.

I get hung up on weird stuff on here and I'm aware I absolutely piss some people off. I'm an analytical person, my life revolves around data so I always start there. Some people have eyes for looking at how someone is improving through subtle movements of their hips opening up in coverage. I have to look at a comprehensive stat line to draw conclusions. I know that means I miss the more nuanced stuff.

If you’re a stat person, these hires would fall under the category of too small of a sample size

 

[Entropic]

If you’re a stat person, these hires would fall under the category of too small of a sample size

Agreed. I didnt mean to insinuate they themselves should be fired. I was more taking issue with the folks saying they are very good at their jobs as the data doesnt support the claims yet or in some cases I've seen people say the staff in general is killing it. At this time its pretty hyperbolic to make those claims. I sort of hijacked the Bostic thread to make a point about more than just Ms Bostic. Which makes sense it was moved to the broader recruiting thread. Mods are on point.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Looks like 3 new offers to WRs to kick off the next portal period. Commitments can be made today (1/4) through Monday, Jan. 9th, right?

 

[CuseLegacy]

Looks like 3 new offers to WRs to kick off the next portal period. Commitments can be made today (1/4) through Monday, Jan. 9th, right?

Where are you seeing three new offers to WRs? I only see Broden who has blown up,

 

[IthacaMatt]

I guess I might be mistaken, but I thought we were pursuing Tayshawn Trent from Youngstown State (who had a previous offer from us) and Billy Kemp, the slot receiver from UVA who went in the portal, in addition to Broden. I guess I misread those threads - no official offers (or re-offers) yet.

 

[Orangello]

Trent and Broden both have offers. Haven't seen Kemp offered yet.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Trent and Broden both have offers. Haven't seen Kemp offered yet.

No. Trent was offered in 2020. He hasn't been re-offered.

 

[orangetrain]

This is high risk and high reward type of player. This is our current problem as a program. We may develop these players and hopefully they are contributors in year 2 or 3. By the off chance they reach or exceed their potential, with the current transfer portal, some will move onto greener pastures/ NIL deals. This gets us in the cycle of developing players every other year, which equates to a mediocre program.

Like many of the players mentioned from NYS over the years, these kids are underdeveloped and many need a few years of D1 strength and conditioning, right? These reaches/ PWO's from out of state or whatever we want to call them, are in the same stages of development as kids from NYS, the kids that Syracuse coaches deem not "good enough", or "not prepared enough". Local kids have ties to the area and "if" they develop and contribute, they will tend to stay home, not leave once they hit the field and contribute. 54% of the kids that hit the transfer portal don't end up bettering themselves from a football program aspect.

Unintended consequences could be, more fan support, more money into the program and possibly more local pride in Syracuse University.

Tidbit- For years Shiano sent all newborn children in the state of NJ, unsure if it was just boys, Rutgers onesies. Not sure if it helped or not, but they are in the big ten now, they do have superior facilities and during Shianos first stint at Rutgers, they became pretty good.

I'm sure many will disagree with some of my rant, but the reality is this. We currently can't raise enough money to finish the Lally Center. Our facilities are sub par at best. Non revenue sports are on the upswing, our revenue sports need a shot in the arm and we are losing coaches and support staff who want a better situation. I have contributed and will continue to, but fundamental changes need to be made.