The Official 'Is Rutgers a rival?' thread | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

The Official 'Is Rutgers a rival?' thread

dollarbill44 said:
You seem awfully angry over this issue. I would offer that perhaps you're not being honest with yourself and how you feel about Rutgers.
While we have a great football history over the decades, I'd like to see us downplay this angle a little bit. We've had only one really good year since the turn of the century. The reality is that on a national level, RU is seen as a more successful program over the last 10 years and they beat us more often than not in that time frame, so it's kind of hard to say that they didn't compete with us. All of us on here know that it's smoke and mirrors and this happened during our darkest period, but perception is reality to a lot of people. And, they started beating us when Coach P was still here, so we can't just blame it all on GRob. The fact that they beat us at all leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I have a feeling that it does the same to a lot of people on here, some of whom might be in the camp that doesn't want to call RU a rival. If there is animosity between two programs and their fans and we are consistently battling over recruits, I would consider that a rivalry. Rivals don't have to play each other on the field.
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You actually sound like a Rutgers fan. They discount all our success over the years too. I guess it's kind of hard for you to imagine that Floyd Little scored 5 touchdowns against Kansas in 1964. I can visualize that as easily as Donnie McPherson manhandling Penn State in 1987 or Jerome Smith doing the same to Louisville. Downplay this, no damn way.
 
Townie72 said:
Bill;

But History doesn't work that way. In the 1970's we were down (except for 1970 when we beat PSU in 1970). But prior to that we had played PSU 52 times and were evenly split with them 26- 26. Many of these games were important and highly-memorable and affected bowl games and the pursuit of the Lambert Trophy.

IMO anyone who suggests a low-rent, pathetic atletic program like RU's is a suitable rival for SU has a very low regard for the history and achievements of SU athletics.

An other school having annoying fans does not translate into having a rivalry with that school.
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Amen to that brother!!!
 
billorange44 said:
You actually sound like a Rutgers fan. They discount all our success over the years too. I guess it's kind of hard for you to imagine that Floyd Little scored 5 touchdowns against Kansas in 1964. I can visualize that as easily as Donnie McPherson manhandling Penn State in 1987 or Jerome Smith doing the same to Louisville. Downplay this, no damn way.
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Haha, I am most certainly not a Rutgers fan. Like I said in an earlier post, I started following SU football in 1978 and I was a freshman at SU in 1987. My father saw Jim Brown play many times in Archbold.

I'm playing a little devil's advocate and trying to point out that rivalries come and go. For example, Holy Cross, Colgate and Cornell were rivals back when Floyd Little was running around in 1964. I don't think anyone would still consider them rivals. New rivalries can develop. Old rivalries can go dormant. Times change. This doesn't mean that SU's football history is diminished somehow. I also offer that the intensity of rivalries can vary greatly from one fan to another. I am also a Cleveland Browns fan (cue the laughter and pity on the board). I hate the Ravens more than any other team. For other Browns fans, it's the Steelers and for still others, it's the Bengals.

Some people on here seem to have very rigid definitions of what makes a rivalry. According to the criteria some have offered, SU hasn't had a football rival since 2004. That may well be the case.
 
dollarbill44 said:
Haha, I am most certainly not a Rutgers fan. Like I said in an earlier post, I started following SU football in 1978 and I was a freshman at SU in 1987. My father saw Jim Brown play many times in Archbold.

I'm playing a little devil's advocate and trying to point out that rivalries come and go. For example, Holy Cross, Colgate and Cornell were rivals back when Floyd Little was running around in 1964. I don't think anyone would still consider them rivals. New rivalries can develop. Old rivalries can go dormant. Times change. This doesn't mean that SU's football history is diminished somehow. I also offer that the intensity of rivalries can vary greatly from one fan to another. I am also a Cleveland Browns fan (cue the laughter and pity on the board). I hate the Ravens more than any other team. For other Browns fans, it's the Steelers and for still others, it's the Bengals.

Some people on here seem to have very rigid definitions of what makes a rivalry. According to the criteria some have offered, SU hasn't had a football rival since 2004. That may well be the case.
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No, Floyd Little never played against Colgate or Cornell.
 
Mitch Browning is back on the market. Ash let him go today.
 
billorange44 said:
No, Floyd Little never played against Colgate or Cornell.
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Correct. We ended our relationship with Cornell in the '50's, Colgate in '61 (except for the odd FCS schedule filler, starting in '87). Holy Cross was still an opponent until '68 (and maybe a couple of odd years afterward).
 
Hey Townie and others, I'm 41, half-way to retirement. I am in a relationship with a woman who has 2 grandchildren and my two favorite teams are SU and anyone who beats Rutgers. I've been watching SU football for a long time. You guys are seriously stuck in the last century(which was a long time ago). Stop acting like this is some young internet fan thing. SU hasn't been good in 15 years. That's a long time. A really long time. Set the bar too low? I didn't set the bar, the results on the field have. As a matter of fact, if you look at the rise of SU in the 80's/90's you will notice that we were good for about the same amount of time that we've been bad. This isn't some blip on the radar. Eric Dungey was about 4 years old when Freeney led us to our last top 25 appearance.

We compete for the same recruits, we compete for the same TV markets, and there is genuine disdain between the fanbases. You want specific incidents? Ray Rice committing to them and sending us into a deathspiral is a good start. The Schiano/Grob handshake eye roll is another. Is it a rivalry on the same level as SU/GT or Bama/Auburn? Of course not. But since P's first loss to them, there is absolutely no other team I hate to lose to more than the F.A.M.I.L.Y of wood chopping 'Gurls. They are very much a reason why we haven't been able to return to our glory. We feasted off NJ, they took it back and we haven't been the same since. I'm not 100% sure that our fates are linked but I have no doubt there is more than just coincidence at work here.

Sorry about the long post, there was a lot I wanted to respond to.
 
Pyle said:
Hey Townie and others, I'm 41, half-way to retirement. I am in a relationship with a woman who has 2 grandchildren and my two favorite teams are SU and anyone who beats Rutgers. I've been watching SU football for a long time. You guys are seriously stuck in the last century(which was a long time ago). Stop acting like this is some young internet fan thing. SU hasn't been good in 15 years. That's a long time. A really long time. Set the bar too low? I didn't set the bar, the results on the field have. As a matter of fact, if you look at the rise of SU in the 80's/90's you will notice that we were good for about the same amount of time that we've been bad. This isn't some blip on the radar. Eric Dungey was about 4 years old when Freeney led us to our last top 25 appearance.

We compete for the same recruits, we compete for the same TV markets, and there is genuine disdain between the fanbases. You want specific incidents? Ray Rice committing to them and sending us into a deathspiral is a good start. The Schiano/Grob handshake eye roll is another. Is it a rivalry on the same level as SU/GT or Bama/Auburn? Of course not. But since P's first loss to them, there is absolutely no other team I hate to lose to more than the F.A.M.I.L.Y of wood chopping 'Gurls. They are very much a reason why we haven't been able to return to our glory. We feasted off NJ, they took it back and we haven't been the same since. I'm not 100% sure that our fates are linked but I have no doubt there is more than just coincidence at work here.

Sorry about the long post, there was a lot I wanted to respond to.
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All due respect, but IMO, your standards are too low. If all it takes is one decommit and an eye-roll to establish a rivalry, then have at it.
And way to cherry-pick the 80-90's and totally disregard the "44 Era" of Brown/Davis/Little/Csonka et al.
Those wins and that history still matters even if it took place "a very long time" ago.
This microwaveable approach where only what happens in a recent generation is what counts, is inevitable I suppose.
Do I agree w/ it? Hell no.
To each his own.:noidea:
 
DoctorBombay said:
All due respect, but IMO, your standards are too low. If all it takes is one decommit and an eye-roll to establish a rivalry, then have at it.
And way to cherry-pick the 80-90's and totally disregard the "44 Era" of Brown/Davis/Little/Csonka et al.
Those wins and that history still matters even if it took place "a very long time" ago.
This microwaveable approach where only what happens in a recent generation is what counts, is inevitable I suppose.
Do I agree w/ it? Hell no.
To each his own.:noidea:
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I don't expect you to agree, but you shouldn't discount the half of the fan base that didn't grow up in Archbold. Since you want to go back to the 44 days, I guess I shouldn't consider my Lions as one of the worst teams in the country. After all, we had Bobby Layne and won a Championship!!!! We have history! You are what recent history says you are, some other things that have changed since the glory years of the 44(and even 39)... Germany is one country again, the soviet union is NOT one country anymore, radical islam has replaced communism as the worlds greatest threat, we landed on the moon, etc. Time to bring your focus into this century. For the record, I don't like microwaves and prefer to re-heat my food in an oven/toaster-oven or on the stove. That's how old I am!

You kinda cherry picked my post too, no mention of the recruiting stuff, geographical stuff...
 
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Ky Je said:
are you saying we should go after him?
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Couldn't answer that, but I recall some posters commenting about bringing him back to coach OL.
 
texascpa said:
Couldn't answer that, but I recall some posters commenting about bringing him back to coach OL.
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NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Look I liked Mitch when Grob was here, he made an OL out of swiss cheese but I want no part of any of that staff ever back at Syracuse again. E.V.E.R.
 
Pyle said:
I don't expect you to agree, but you shouldn't discount the half of the fan base that didn't grow up in Archbold. Since you want to go back to the 44 days, I guess I shouldn't consider my Lions as one of the worst teams in the country. After all, we had Bobby Layne and won a Championship!!!! We have history! You are what recent history says you are, some other things that have changed since the glory years of the 44(and even 39)... Germany is one country again, the soviet union is NOT one country anymore, radical islam has replaced communism as the worlds greatest threat, we landed on the moon, etc. Time to bring your focus into this century. For the record, I don't like microwaves and prefer to re-heat my food in an oven/toaster-oven or on the stove. That's how old I am!

You kinda cherry picked my post too, no mention of the recruiting stuff, geographical stuff...
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Here's the thing...and to use your own example of the Detroit Lions. Your Lions had a great history once, as have alot of NFL teams, etc. However, they've pretty much sucked even w/ Barry Sanders. However, what the Lions will never do, and have never done, is to cleave themselves onto another team and declare themselves their rivals, w/out their being a viable reason for it. They have traditional rivals in the Bears, Packers, and Vikings- rivalries which developed over time when all those franchises were sometimes up, AND other times down.
Again...what has Rutgers done to earn this unwavering rival status from the ROSUF (Rutgers Obsessed SU Fan), other than a few years of being mediocre, coinciding with our program being in the crapper? When have they ever had any other program, other than some baffingly starstruck fans of SU, looking up to them and choking in their dust?
When I first joined this forum going back a few sites ago on S KoW t and so on, I couldn't understand the fascination with Rutgers by some. Why? Because I, and everyone I knew, absent from those who populate this forum, never ever considered them to be SU's rival. I submit that that's still the case today.
Wanting to laugh at their expense, or make fun of their missteps should not, IMHO, place them in the loftier rank of a rival...unless of course you think that SU doesn't merit being in that loftier rank as well. I wholeheartedly disagree. I think we've EARNED it on the field, and over a longer period of time, other than that 15 year window which some remain fixated on.
Also, the fact that their recruiting picked up at our expense during that down time makes them a COMPETITOR, not a RIVAL. There is a difference.
 
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DoctorBombay said:
Here's the thing...and to use your own example of the Detroit Lions. Your Lions had a great history once, as have alot of NFL teams, etc. However, they've pretty much sucked even w/ Barry Sanders. However, what the Lions will never do, and have never done, is to cleave themselves onto another team and declare themselves their rivals, w/out their being a viable reason for it. They have traditional rivals in the Bears, Packers, and Vikings- rivalries which developed over time when all those franchises were sometimes up, AND other times down. Again...what has Rutgers done to earn this unwavering rival status from the ROSUF (Rutgers Obsessed SU Fan), other than a few years of being mediocre, coinciding with our program being in the crapper? When have they ever had any other program, other than some baffingly starstruck fans of SU, looking up to them and choking in their dust? When I first joined this forum going back a few sites ago on S KoW t and so on, I couldn't understand the fascination with Rutgers by some. Why? Because I, and everyone I knew, absent from those who populate this forum, ever considered them to be SU's rival. I submit that that's still the case today. Wanting to laugh at their expense, or make fun of their missteps should not, IMHO, place them in the loftier rank of a rival...unless of course you think that SU doesn't merit being in that loftier rank as well. I wholeheartedly disagree. I think we've EARNED it on the field, and over a longer period of time, other than that 15 year window which some remain fixated on. Also, the fact that their recruiting picked up at our expense during that down time makes them a COMPETITOR, not a RIVAL. There is a difference.
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Who made you chief of Syracuse rivalries? I kid - but there is no consortium to decide this kind of thing. Some will see them as a rival and some won't.
 
Pyle said:
Hey Townie and others, I'm 41, half-way to retirement. I am in a relationship with a woman who has 2 grandchildren and my two favorite teams are SU and anyone who beats Rutgers. I've been watching SU football for a long time. You guys are seriously stuck in the last century(which was a long time ago). Stop acting like this is some young internet fan thing. SU hasn't been good in 15 years. That's a long time. A really long time. Set the bar too low? I didn't set the bar, the results on the field have. As a matter of fact, if you look at the rise of SU in the 80's/90's you will notice that we were good for about the same amount of time that we've been bad. This isn't some blip on the radar. Eric Dungey was about 4 years old when Freeney led us to our last top 25 appearance.

We compete for the same recruits, we compete for the same TV markets, and there is genuine disdain between the fanbases. You want specific incidents? Ray Rice committing to them and sending us into a deathspiral is a good start. The Schiano/Grob handshake eye roll is another. Is it a rivalry on the same level as SU/GT or Bama/Auburn? Of course not. But since P's first loss to them, there is absolutely no other team I hate to lose to more than the F.A.M.I.L.Y of wood chopping 'Gurls. They are very much a reason why we haven't been able to return to our glory. We feasted off NJ, they took it back and we haven't been the same since. I'm not 100% sure that our fates are linked but I have no doubt there is more than just coincidence at work here.

Sorry about the long post, there was a lot I wanted to respond to.
Expand...
been saying the same thing for years. the mere fact that we are usually ridiculed for saying that speaks to the bitterness,angst, and anger. i was once banned (years ago, rightfully so) for calling people on this board ostriches heads buried in the sand ---as to what was taking place at rutgers and how we were not paying attention. i was scoffed at. many of us feel that we need to re-establish ourselves in nj
 
billorange44 said:
No, Floyd Little never played against Colgate or Cornell.
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I hear there's a beautiful forest out there, if only there weren't so many trees in the way.

You totally missed the point about changing rivalries by focusing on what years these series ended.
 
dollarbill44 said:
I hear there's a beautiful forest out there, if only there weren't so many trees in the way.

You totally missed the point about changing rivalries by focusing on what years these series ended.
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I didn't miss your point. I really can see and tell where the forest is. You keep saying Rutgers is a rival and they are not especially now since we don't play them anymore. To be a rival, they have to be competitive and they never were. 30-12-1 us.
 
So in an effort to change the subject, and even slightly OT, rumor has it that Ohio State is going to make Greg Schiano it's new DC.
 
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