The Smart Scheduling Bowl

[TheCusian]

Anthony Brown redshirted this year at BC . What makes you think he won't be another difficult dual threat QB in the ACC .

He might be, he might not. Until he proves it, I'll assume they'll continue their streak of historically bad QB play.

 

[CousCuse]

He might be, he might not. Until he proves it, I'll assume they'll continue their streak of historically bad QB play.

That is really what it boils down to for most teams , QB play .

 

[Delmar]

BC beat UMass, Wagner, Buffalo, NC State, UConn and WF. 2 FCS teams (almost 3).
Maryland beat Howard, FIU, UCF, Purdue, Michigan State and Rutgers. 1 FCS team (almost 5)
Clearly, at this point at least, we need to feast on our 4 OOC games. We play enough marquee teams in our division alone w/FSU, Louisville and powerhouse Clemson. As Steve Martin's Wild & Crazy Czech brother Yortuk Festrunk might say, "Pleaski. Give me a breakski."
Sad season is over even though we took our licks. Need to back into a bowl next year and make it happen in 2018. I'm not sure what "it" means, but it ain't 4-8.
Of the 14 ACC teams only SU, Duke and Virginia aren't bowling.
A team like Georgia Tech that has a relatively low national profile (rarely part of the "national conversation") went to a bowl 19 straight years (except last year). Va Tech in a bowl game every year since 1993. Pitt 7 coaches in the last 8 years (3 interim) and goes bowling every year. And don't even talk to me about Dontez Ford.

My whine/rant over, I'm hopeful (there's that word again) Babers will turn it around w/improved recruiting, player development and more Amba Etta-Tawos. Go Orange!

I don't agree with you, but you made your case as well as it can be made.

 

[djorange1989]

'Close' losses against tough competition... are still losses. Period.

Absolutely NOBODY is going to look at our losing record from last season, and say "yeah, but - they played LSU and Clemson tough".
Losses are losses. There are no moral victories - only real ones.
Or in our case, not.

I like what somebody above posted about "degree of difficulty" - there truly are ZERO benefits from scheduling above our weight class.
Nebraska was over 30 years ago. Coach Mac ain't walking thru that door.

We play a 1984 Nebraska team every year now. Their names are Clemson and Florida State. Why in the hell anyone thinks a team that hasn't been ranked in 15 years should be adding to that misery by scheduling the likes of LSU and Wisconsin is beyond me. You said it perfectly there are no moral victories only real ones

 

[atom58]

'Close' losses against tough competition... are still losses. Period.

Absolutely NOBODY is going to look at our losing record from last season, and say "yeah, but - they played LSU and Clemson tough".
Losses are losses. There are no moral victories - only real ones.
Or in our case, not.

I like what somebody above posted about "degree of difficulty" - there truly are ZERO benefits from scheduling above our weight class.
Nebraska was over 30 years ago. Coach Mac ain't walking thru that door.

Reading this I am reminded of one of Bobby Bowden's quotes: "moral victories are like a 6 foot man drowning in 6 inches of water. He's still dead."

Just my 2 cents, I do think in the near run you should schedule one FCS, two G5s, and 1 P5 (only) making sure you have a fighting chance to win all of those games. In other words avoid the FCS championship-contending teams*, elite or near-elite P5s, and dangerous, improving G5s like USF and Temple. If ND is on the schedule, that is your one OOC P5 for the year. Get the defensive team/coaches/scheme fixed and then get into bowl games and you will eventually get where you want to be.

*N Dakota State comes to mind along with a final Bowden quote. He couldn't academically qualify some he would have recruited so they went the JUCO route, and he said "I wouldn't want to play some of those JUCO teams - we might get beat."

 

[elimunelson]

So you're saying we were ok financially and the product on the field wasn't suffering? C'mon.

There was a lot wrong with the Gross/Cantor tenures, loose purse strings being a big one - but you can not say that everything was hunky dory in football land. No IPF, Marrone complaining about facilities, new done carpet, keeping up with recruiting bells and whistles in the football wing, underpaid assistants, etc.

You can call it whoring if you want, but if the reported sums were correct, you turn down those deals and maybe you get fired.

Competitive product cost money. Or if you prefer "scared money don't make money"...

---

Finally. BC is behind us. We've been waiting for Addazzio to get his giant dudes for years and they still suck. Matt Ryan isn't walking through those doors. That's like saying "as soon as Syracuse gets another McNabb and does better in recruiting, watch out!"

Since we've joined the ACC, Addazzio has how many wins vs Syracuse? 1.

BC has gone to 3 bowls in 4 seasons. No one cares we beat BC a few times but everyone looks at the 1 bowl in 4 seasons

Meadowlands games were a financial gain at the expense of wins.

 

[Ottoble]

We took LSU deep into the 4th quarter with a walk-on QB. With Dungey we very well could have won. Nobody left that game at halftime.

You're right except nobody except us knows that and at the end of the season we had more injuries becaue we play so many teams that are bigger than us and another loss against a bowl game.

The truth is we have to schedule in cycles 2-3years of cupcakes followed by a challenge year build recruits and wins and then give us a better shot at getting over the top in a game like that LSU game because we have seasoned backups.

 

[TheCusian]

That is really what it boils down to for most teams , QB play .

Thank you for sharing this deep wisdom

 

[TheCusian]

BC has gone to 3 bowls in 4 seasons. No one cares we beat BC a few times but everyone looks at the 1 bowl in 4 seasons

Meadowlands games were a financial gain at the expense of wins.

Addazzio is a bad coach being propped up by an easy OOC schedule and weak bowl games. If he was building to something, there would be more signs than historically bad offense.

Easy breezy scheduling can help you gain momentum - but I don't see it with them. They are just making it harder to shift away to a better coach.
--
One could argue that the money was worth the odds of winning those years.

 

[TheCusian]

You're right except nobody except us knows that and at the end of the season we had more injuries becaue we play so many teams that are bigger than us and another loss against a bowl game.

The truth is we have to schedule in cycles 2-3years of cupcakes followed by a challenge year build recruits and wins and then give us a better shot at getting over the top in a game like that LSU game because we have seasoned backups.

There are two questions worth asking when it comes to scheduling:

- Are we competing for our division on the regular? If so: Schedule up.
- Does our recruiting allow us to compete with the top of the division? If not: Schedule down.

 

[CousCuse]

Thank you for sharing this deep wisdom

For a concept that you seem to easily grasp , you are very sure of your analysis of which coaches are not competent , such as Shafer and Addazio . Both of them had many injury issues at QB and a very short window to secure and develop a program changing player at that position .

 

[TheCusian]

For a concept that you seem to easily grasp , you are very sure of your analysis of which coaches are not competent , such as Shafer and Addazio . Both of them had many injury issues at QB and a very short window to secure and develop a program changing player at that position .

I think you mistake "competent" with "very good" a lot. Shafer and Addazzio are competent. As is Wake coach Clawson. But are they good enough to win the division? Is there momentum? Can they recruit enough athletes to compete with the top of the division? Can they coach up lesser talent to wins? Those are the questions that get coaches fired. It's not about staying where you are, it's about winning.

I don't think you were following very closely last year. I defended Shafer for longer than just about everyone on this board. I used the QB injury line roughly a 1000x. I took on loads of crap defending him. He lost me when I realized (later than most) that he wasn't going to get us there. He wasn't fired for incompetence.

Lastly, Addazzio has been the coach there long enough to have his QB situation more stable. He's brought in grad transfers twice (and it worked once and they rose up from bad to mediocre).

Firing coaches is a complex equation in a lot of ways... but the key question is usually "can he get us where we want to be?"

 

[elimunelson]

Addazzio is a bad coach being propped up by an easy OOC schedule and weak bowl games. If he was building to something, there would be more signs than historically bad offense.

Easy breezy scheduling can help you gain momentum - but I don't see it with them. They are just making it harder to shift away to a better coach.
--
One could argue that the money was worth the odds of winning those years.

I think Addazio's track record is mirroring Tom O'Brien. Mediocrity was suddenly replaced with consistent 8 win seasons. I don't think either guy is a transcendant coach but at a certain point u can build on a sustained record. BC isn't going to can Addazio and if he can get a few big recruits in there, they'll be an 8-9 win team again.

My entire point is perception is reality. Our reality right now is we're the worst team in the ACC. For us to turn this around, we need to be very very very smart about scheduling, not poo-poo'ng teams like BC who are doing it the right way and assuming they will be an auto win going forward.

 

[CousCuse]

I think you mistake "competent" with "very good" a lot. Shafer and Addazzio are competent. As is Wake coach Clawson. But are they good enough to win the division? Is there momentum? Can they recruit enough athletes to compete with the top of the division? Can they coach up lesser talent to wins? Those are the questions that get coaches fired. It's not about staying where you are, it's about winning.

I don't think you were following very closely last year. I defended Shafer for longer than just about everyone on this board. I used the QB injury line roughly a 1000x. I took on loads of crap defending him. He lost me when I realized (later than most) that he wasn't going to get us there. He wasn't fired for incompetence.

Lastly, Addazzio has been the coach there long enough to have his QB situation more stable. He's brought in grad transfers twice (and it worked once and they rose up from bad to mediocre).

Firing coaches is a complex equation in a lot of ways... but the key question is usually "can he get us where we want to be?"

I don't understand why you summarily dismiss Clawson . Wake is a very physical team and had 72 RSOPH or younger players on this years team . Bcubs said as much in a posting the other day about his son's injury condition . They will challenge for the division in the next 2 years , just watch . As for Addazzio , I watched Towles this year and he couldn't get it together until late in the season . Like in the game against Cuse . Early in the game he had 2 chances to pick up first downs in the red zone and both times has mental lapses and failed . To me , that was the difference in that game . I expect them to be a much stronger team next year with Brown at QB and by keeping coaching staff continuity . Addazzio's early career at BC looks very similar to that of Coach Mac's at SU . Shafer is gone , we will never know . Dino is going to need time , maybe much more time than you think .

 

[elimunelson]

I don't understand why you summarily dismiss Clawson . Wake is a very physical team and had 72 RSOPH or younger players on this years team . Bcubs said as much in a posting the other day about his son's injury condition . They will challenge for the division in the next 2 years , just watch . As for Addazzio , I watched Towles this year and he couldn't get it together until late in the season . Like in the game against Cuse . Early in the game he had 2 chances to pick up first downs in the red zone and both times has mental lapses and failed . To me , that was the difference in that game . I expect them to be a much stronger team next year with Brown at QB and by keeping coaching staff continuity . Addazzio's early career at BC looks very similar to that of Coach Mac's at SU . Shafer is gone , we will never know . Dino is going to need time , maybe much more time than you think .

You can win football games in an ugly fashion even in the ACC. That's how BC is building their program. We are going the higher difficulty route but the right route for Syracuse IMO. I'm in total agreement with you. We may get better but that may not mean BC is a dumpster fire b/c of our ascension.

We're in a big boy league that makes it super hard to compete year in and year out. We may have seen the end of a down BC period and that's not good for us wins/losses.

 

[RF2044]

I would rather be SU than BC at this point in time regardless of the bowl.

Had we beaten Wake and one other we'd be there.

And I like seeing an LSU and a ND on the schedule.

Replace LSU with a team like Buffalo, and we would be in a bowl.

At some point, people need to get with the times and understand that it is virtually impossible NOT to go to a bowl, unless your athletic department is dumb and doesn't put the program in a position to succeed.

 

[TheCusian]

I think Addazio's track record is mirroring Tom O'Brien. Mediocrity was suddenly replaced with consistent 8 win seasons. I don't think either guy is a transcendant coach but at a certain point u can build on a sustained record. BC isn't going to can Addazio and if he can get a few big recruits in there, they'll be an 8-9 win team again.

My entire point is perception is reality. Our reality right now is we're the worst team in the ACC. For us to turn this around, we need to be very very very smart about scheduling, not poo-poo'ng teams like BC who are doing it the right way and assuming they will be an auto win going forward.

I agree with that scheduling philosophy. But scheduling wins doesn't make someone a good coach. I'm poo-poo'ng BC because they have been pretty bad vs peer competition for years. They haven't been mediocre. They have been right there with us and Wake, battling out for the bottom. You're falling for their record and perception, when you have the opportunity to see through it. Ask the BC diehards. They groaned when BC won their 6th game.

BC SOS: #46
Syracuse SOS: #26

We have an obligation to look past the perception.

 

[TheCusian]

You can win football games in an ugly fashion even in the ACC. That's how BC is building their program. We are going the higher difficulty route but the right route for Syracuse IMO. I'm in total agreement with you. We may get better but that may not mean BC is a dumpster fire b/c of our ascension.

We're in a big boy league that makes it super hard to compete year in and year out. We may have seen the end of a down BC period and that's not good for us wins/losses.

What makes you think BC is on the rise?

 

[TheCusian]

I don't understand why you summarily dismiss Clawson . Wake is a very physical team and had 72 RSOPH or younger players on this years team . Bcubs said as much in a posting the other day about his son's injury condition . They will challenge for the division in the next 2 years , just watch . As for Addazzio , I watched Towles this year and he couldn't get it together until late in the season . Like in the game against Cuse . Early in the game he had 2 chances to pick up first downs in the red zone and both times has mental lapses and failed . To me , that was the difference in that game . I expect them to be a much stronger team next year with Brown at QB and by keeping coaching staff continuity . Addazzio's early career at BC looks very similar to that of Coach Mac's at SU . Shafer is gone , we will never know . Dino is going to need time , maybe much more time than you think .

Reading comprehension, man. I didn't dismiss him. I said he was competent. But competent is not winning you this division. Same with Addazzio.

Addazzio's career at BC is mirroring a lot of coaches, most of whom got fired.

Dino may prove to be competent enough to consistently get us to bowls. It will be up to the AD and fanbase to judge if that's enough. I think he's exceptional and will get us to the top of the division if we give him time.

 

[OrangePA]

Replace LSU with a team like Buffalo, and we would be in a bowl.

At some point, people need to get with the times and understand that it is virtually impossible NOT to go to a bowl, unless your athletic department is dumb and doesn't put the program in a position to succeed.

I still like having LSU on the schedule.

In the long run I believe it helps the Program.

 

[RF2044]

I still like having LSU on the schedule.

In the long run I believe it helps the Program.

How?

That doesn't really seem supported by the evidence here. I could understand if you were to make the claim that it somehow impacts / makes an impression on recruits, but playing them now and losing, and missing out on a bowl seem more impactful in a negative way.

There's a time and a place for everything. Right now is not the time for us to be scheduling tough OOC P5 opponents. Not when we've got so many other obstacles hindering us from getting over the hump.

Simple as that.

 

[elimunelson]

What makes you think BC is on the rise?

Depends on what your define as "Rise". BC and Syracuse are never ever ever going to be perpetual top 10 programs. The history of both programs show me enough evidence to be confident stating that. Both programs, which are very similar, thrive with continuity and the patience of the fan base to accept and relish good results vs demanding excellence like a Clemson and FSU. I think it's a good way to view these programs. Even Marrone at his apex, won 8 games. If we were looking at Marrone season 8 or 9 right now, we'd be happy if he kept winning 8-9 games and going to bowls each year (like Tom O'Brien did).

With Addazio moving into year 5, he's going to offer continuity and consistency to recruits and that's something they can build on. Next year OOC, they play Uconn, Central Michigan, Northern Illinios and ND (at home vs us who plays them always on the road or on the road). They could win all of those games.

 

[CousCuse]

Reading comprehension, man. I didn't dismiss him. I said he was competent. But competent is not winning you this division. Same with Addazzio.

Addazzio's career at BC is mirroring a lot of coaches, most of whom got fired.

Dino may prove to be competent enough to consistently get us to bowls. It will be up to the AD and fanbase to judge if that's enough. I think he's exceptional and will get us to the top of the division if we give him time.

Every place else Clawson has coached , his teams have won the conference title and he has won coach of the year . But now you can see he has hit his cieling , you really believe your that capable of analyzing coaches ?

 

[elimunelson]

How?

That doesn't really seem supported by the evidence here. I could understand if you were to make the claim that it somehow impacts / makes an impression on recruits, but playing them now and losing, and missing out on a bowl seem more impactful in a negative way.

There's a time and a place for everything. Right now is not the time for us to be scheduling tough OOC P5 opponents. Not when we've got so many other obstacles hindering us from getting over the hump.

Simple as that.

If we had played ND at home like BC is doing this year (and they did playing ND at Fenway) it has an impact on recruits because it creates a buzz at home. We have to play these guys as people remind me. Well, having shot ourselves in the foot and allowing ND to leverage this ACC deal by using Syracuse to play the game in their home away from home backyard has HURT Syracuse.

BC never had to stoop to these levels and all i hear from my BC friends is they have the same money constraints that Syracuse had.

 

[OrangePA]

How?

That doesn't really seem supported by the evidence here. I could understand if you were to make the claim that it somehow impacts / makes an impression on recruits, but playing them now and losing, and missing out on a bowl seem more impactful in a negative way.

There's a time and a place for everything. Right now is not the time for us to be scheduling tough OOC P5 opponents. Not when we've got so many other obstacles hindering us from getting over the hump.

Simple as that.

I understand your position.

I just disagree with you.