What must John Wildhack consider as he decides Dino Babers’ fate?

[Chip]

All the people who say it's not about the Xs and Os it's the Jimmy and Joes should be on board with this

I would also combine with a high variance approach to coaching background. Go relatively cheaper on coach but go after someone who stands out in some way (you know how I would want him to stand out)

Yep. And keep the buyout low. I think the buyout should also be tied to performance. i.e. 4-8 its much less than 6-6.

You might say, well who would sign up for that? People who believe they'll succeed and right now otherwise have no other path to an ACC level coaching job. That's who. They'll get leverage for an extension if they do well.

And if we're still poor, we just go find someone else at that point if the coach walks or grabs a better job.

The lesson on Dino would be don't box yourselves in on anyone because of one good season.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

i just want someone that is on the younger side. this lift is going to require energy. the likes of a dan mullin putting in the Coach P sleeping at Manley hours is probably unlikely.

If it means reaching for someone who conventional thinking would consider too green then so be it. Let's roll the dice for once on a hire. Colorado did it with Deion.

at the end of the day, you take another shot with another guy. It's not rocket science. I agree try and hire a guy on the come up, young with a big upside. If it works great, if it doesn't you try again

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The pulling from endowments talk is funny. Sounds like something Rutgers would do.

Having said that, here's the part I don't know, so forgive me if I sound overly naive. There's talk somewhere in here about being more difficult for our Athletic Director because the cost of a scholarship is so expensive at a private school like SU.

Is it? Or better stated, does it have to be? If the Athletic Department "pays" the school full tuition for the cost of a scholarship, isn't that just funny money? Nothing fungible to that, so why would we hamstring ourselves? I always assumed the school would set its tuition price based on a variety of factors, one of which being that some number of students pay nothing or reduced tuition based on scholarships. Athletic or otherwise.

Anyone know how SU really handles this stuff?

Agree. It is a BS cost. As is taxing the land. The athletic department provides marketing for a school. Maybe they should charge a marketing fee to keep some of the money.

 

[Millhouse]

The pulling from endowments talk is funny. Sounds like something Rutgers would do.

Having said that, here's the part I don't know, so forgive me if I sound overly naive. There's talk somewhere in here about being more difficult for our Athletic Director because the cost of a scholarship is so expensive at a private school like SU.

Is it? Or better stated, does it have to be? If the Athletic Department "pays" the school full tuition for the cost of a scholarship, isn't that just funny money? Nothing fungible to that, so why would we hamstring ourselves? I always assumed the school would set its tuition price based on a variety of factors, one of which being that some number of students pay nothing or reduced tuition based on scholarships. Athletic or otherwise.

Anyone know how SU really handles this stuff?

Looked up an old thread about it, it was just as confusing then

"costs" of scholarships

reading that bain powerpoint, it saiys a third of SU students receive more than a 60% discount and only third receive less than a 20% discount at a bare minimum, that means the average discount is 40% (a third at 60% at least, a third at 20% and a third at 0% probably somewhere closer to 50...

syracusefan.com

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yep. And keep the buyout low. I think the buyout should also be tied to performance. i.e. 4-8 its much less than 6-6.

You might say, well who would sign up for that? People who believe they'll succeed and right now otherwise have no other path to an ACC level coaching job. That's who. They'll get leverage for an extension if they do well.

And if we're still poor, we just go find someone else at that point if the coach walks or grabs a better job.

The lesson on Dino would be don't box yourselves in on anyone because of one good season.

and even at a modest HC salary it's still going to be a solid bump in pay for said coach.

 

[Millhouse]

Yep. And keep the buyout low. I think the buyout should also be tied to performance. i.e. 4-8 its much less than 6-6.

You might say, well who would sign up for that? People who believe they'll succeed and right now otherwise have no other path to an ACC level coaching job. That's who. They'll get leverage for an extension if they do well.

And if we're still poor, we just go find someone else at that point if the coach walks or grabs a better job.

The lesson on Dino would be don't box yourselves in on anyone because of one good season.

It's not like anyone has any idea what will work, this is all calvinball at this point

 

[Millhouse]

Yep. And keep the buyout low. I think the buyout should also be tied to performance. i.e. 4-8 its much less than 6-6.

You might say, well who would sign up for that? People who believe they'll succeed and right now otherwise have no other path to an ACC level coaching job. That's who. They'll get leverage for an extension if they do well.

And if we're still poor, we just go find someone else at that point if the coach walks or grabs a better job.

The lesson on Dino would be don't box yourselves in on anyone because of one good season.

Part of what I was flipping out about for fifteen years was the window where meatheads were missing the opportunity with spread to run

We baylored too late, recruits don't care, and that was the only trick up babers's sleeve

 

[upperdeck]

Part of what I was flipping out about for fifteen years was the window where meatheads were missing the opportunity with spread to run

We baylored too late, recruits don't care, and that was the only trick up babers's sleeve

to spread run you really have to buy in that the QB might get hit.. We have had so much bad QB injury luck we removed it.. And still our QBs get hurt. But I think ED could do it, Shrader not so much.

Even then the oline needs to block more than air.

 

[wfschrec]

You are missing the point entirely! It doesn't matter where the money comes from, the point I have been trying to articulate is that Syracuse doesn't have the funds(University + Boosters + NIL + Collectives...etc), to fix all of the issues that need money to fix, compared to the schools that we are competing against. We can cry about all the things Cuse fans are crying about that need fixing, but at the end of the day, the solution involves money that we don't have.

You insist the University doesn't have the funds ... my point is other Universities don't either .. they rely on boosters. This isn't that hard.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Part of what I was flipping out about for fifteen years was the window where meatheads were missing the opportunity with spread to run

We baylored too late, recruits don't care, and that was the only trick up babers's sleeve

I would agree with this. That's my whole point. Hire a guy before other P5 teams are considering him. Let the next HC skip the MAC job and hire a Liepold type when UB hired him. Big risk but financially not so much. Hire Liepold's OC from Kansas type. He's been with him 12 years. And like you said, nobody has any idea what will actually work but I do know syracuse needs an innovative football coach that can win with about the same type of talent we have now ( on paper). I just dont see the recruiting getting all that much better

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You insist the University doesn't have the funds ... my point is other Universities don't either .. they rely on boosters. This isn't that hard.

and he's saying we don't have the ravenous boosters with big $ or thousands of middle type boosters either His whole point and he's 100% correct

 

[CNYGuy]

You insist the University doesn't have the funds ... my point is other Universities don't either .. they rely on boosters. This isn't that hard.

I think people underestimate the private school factor. State schools can play much looser with their pockets.

By nature, Syracuse has significantly less alums than many other power 5 football programs. The donor base head count at Syracuse already starts at a fraction of what most other power 5 schools start at by nature of that.

 

[wfschrec]

and he's saying we don't have the ravenous boosters with big $ or thousands of middle type boosters either His whole point and he's 100% correct

Then don't include the university or NIL collectives as part of the rant ... they play no part in it. There is a booster in Atlanta that pays the OC salary at ND ... not even the University. We as fans want to complain a ton but until we have a fan base of boosters like that its a dead argument.

 

[wfschrec]

I think people underestimate the private school factor. State schools can play much looser with their pockets.

By nature, Syracuse has significantly less alums than many other power 5 football programs. The donor base head count at Syracuse already starts at a fraction of what most other power 5 schools start at by nature of that.

There are private schools that have boosters paying big ... quite frankly in the 90s we had some elite talent move on to the NFL. It's not like they are little sisters of the poor ... McNabb, Harrison, Freeney, the Jones brothers etc ... the only mistake the University made was not fostering connections with alums or at least that is the perception based on what is shown on social media.

 

[orangecuse]

Now we’re pinching pennies and holding onto a coach who’s clearly underperforming his contract because we’re broke. Sure, I’ll suck up 2024 and sit through miserable bliss in the JMS Wirele$$ Dome where I can’t hear the announcer or use my gd smart phone to keep me entertained when we get drubbed by 4 tuddies in mid November.

Turn off the gd lights at night if you can’t afford the electric bill.

This whole "woe is me" (SU) seemingly being projected by the university is somewhat puzzling. I realize that the landscape has changed quite a bit since our "gift of a lifetime" inclusion to the ACC, but where is all the money going? My understanding is that SU was getting somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 mil annually when in the Big East, and are now getting upwards of $40 mil. That's 8 times the $$$! Very peculiar IMO.

 

[wfschrec]

This whole "woe is me" (SU) seemingly being projected by the university is somewhat puzzling. I realize that the landscape has changed quite a bit since our "gift of a lifetime" inclusion to the ACC, but where is all the money going? My understanding is that SU was getting somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 mil annually when in the Big East, and are now getting upwards of $40 mil. That's 8 times the $$$! Very peculiar IMO.

I'm sure Title IX plays a role in this ... sports that don't make money must be funded ... like the NBA funding the WNBA.

 

[Scooch]

A lot of this financial stuff really isn't worth debating or worrying about. It's just an "is".

Syracuse University has plenty of money to support a competitive football program. Period.

Does SU have Texas money? Notre Dame money? Of course freakin' not.

But we have the money to build and maintain good facilities. To pay a staff fairly. To retain and attract players via NIL and the portal.

We just have to be smarter about it than some programs, because we can't afford financially crippling mistakes.

We don't need to be the Mets, we can be the Diamondbacks and survive just fine.

 

[TheCusian]

Yep. And keep the buyout low. I think the buyout should also be tied to performance. i.e. 4-8 its much less than 6-6.

You might say, well who would sign up for that? People who believe they'll succeed and right now otherwise have no other path to an ACC level coaching job. That's who. They'll get leverage for an extension if they do well.

And if we're still poor, we just go find someone else at that point if the coach walks or grabs a better job.

The lesson on Dino would be don't box yourselves in on anyone because of one good season.

I don't think that's the lesson we should take. If we have a coach who knocks off a ranked opponent 2 years in a row (even with a losing record overall) and then in the 3rd year wins 10? Yeah, we should take the chance on an extension every time.

There's a chance you have Dino or another chance that you have someone really good.

In our position in the CFB, you want it known that we'll pay you with that result.

 

[GHLF]

Now we’re pinching pennies and holding onto a coach who’s clearly underperforming his contract because we’re broke. Sure, I’ll suck up 2024 and sit through miserable bliss in the JMS Wirele$$ Dome where I can’t hear the announcer or use my gd smart phone to keep me entertained when we get drubbed by 4 tuddies in mid November.

Turn off the gd lights at night if you can’t afford the electric bill.

Well, to a degree I agree, certainly is not the Good Lord's fault. No need

 

[Chip]

I don't think that's the lesson we should take. If we have a coach who knocks off a ranked opponent 2 years in a row (even with a losing record overall) and then in the 3rd year wins 10? Yeah, we should take the chance on an extension every time.

There's a chance you have Dino or another chance that you have someone really good.

In our position in the CFB, you want it known that we'll pay you with that result.

I think it depends if we're poor or not.

We very well may find out that answer in the next few weeks.

 

[Scooch]

Follow the approach of teams like NDSU and Cincy. Hire solid up and coming coaches not retreads and not expensive name coaches. Pay a good salary make it a four year no more than five-year deal with a decent buyout and provide a good amount of money for assistant coaches. Hire guys that can recruit your key areas and are proven OCs or DCs. I would prefer an OC to take advantage of the dome. Pay 3 million with incentives for wins and bowls to the head coach and spend the saved money on assistant coaches. Sound like the Holy cross coach

Cincinnati is a master class on how to maintain a competitive program while churning through coaches.

I mean, just look at these results since 2007:

Cincinnati Bearcats College Football History, Stats, Records | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the Cincinnati Bearcats College Football History, Stats, Records, Polls, Bowls and More College Football Stats at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

TWELVE 9+ win seasons in 17 years! Under four different head coaches.

And before I get the "BUT CINCINNATI IS IN OHIO" retort... yes, they are. And they were in their 52 years prior to 2007, when they won 9+ games exactly ZERO times.

Cincy invested in facilities, hired a smart coach, paid him to retain him until they couldn't anymore, and then found another smart coach. Over and over again.

Tuberville was by far their biggest mistake, and (a) he still won 9 games twice, and (b) he's a flaming dipsh!t. They also moved on from him quickly. One 7-6 year, followed by a 4-8 and he was gonzo (he "resigned" because he was gonna get canned). No hemming and hawing about "stability" or that nonsense. Just a quick realization that he wasn't it, and on they moved.

Be more Cincinnati.

 

[NYCCuse826]

If anything, what has Wildhack done to ensure he himself is not on the hot seat? He's presided over the worst stretch for SUAs revenue and legacy sports.

 

[elimunelson]

Cincinnati is a master class on how to maintain a competitive program while churning through coaches.

I mean, just look at these results since 2007:

Cincinnati Bearcats College Football History, Stats, Records | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the Cincinnati Bearcats College Football History, Stats, Records, Polls, Bowls and More College Football Stats at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

TWELVE 9+ win seasons in 17 years! Under four different head coaches.

And before I get the "BUT CINCINNATI IS IN OHIO" retort... yes, they are. And they were in their 52 years prior to 2007, when they won 9+ games exactly ZERO times.

Cincy invested in facilities, hired a smart coach, paid him to retain him until they couldn't anymore, and then found another smart coach. Over and over again.

Tuberville was by far their biggest mistake, and (a) he still won 9 games twice, and (b) he's a flaming dipsh!t. They also moved on from him quickly. One 7-6 year, followed by a 4-8 and he was gonzo (he "resigned" because he was gonna get canned). No hemming and hawing about "stability" or that nonsense. Just a quick realization that he wasn't it, and on they moved.

Be more Cincinnati.

be careful labeling Tuberville a dip...the politics police on this board will tip you over.

 

[oldpinepoint]

be careful labeling Tuberville a dip...the politics police on this board will tip you over.

He stinks at his current job too

 

[SuFTW]

Cincinnati is a master class on how to maintain a competitive program while churning through coaches.

I mean, just look at these results since 2007:

Cincinnati Bearcats College Football History, Stats, Records | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the Cincinnati Bearcats College Football History, Stats, Records, Polls, Bowls and More College Football Stats at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

TWELVE 9+ win seasons in 17 years! Under four different head coaches.

And before I get the "BUT CINCINNATI IS IN OHIO" retort... yes, they are. And they were in their 52 years prior to 2007, when they won 9+ games exactly ZERO times.

Cincy invested in facilities, hired a smart coach, paid him to retain him until they couldn't anymore, and then found another smart coach. Over and over again.

Tuberville was by far their biggest mistake, and (a) he still won 9 games twice, and (b) he's a flaming dipsh!t. They also moved on from him quickly. One 7-6 year, followed by a 4-8 and he was gonzo (he "resigned" because he was gonna get canned). No hemming and hawing about "stability" or that nonsense. Just a quick realization that he wasn't it, and on they moved.

Be more Cincinnati.

Except for their last hire.