What type of season would Carleton have in the NCAA?

[OburgOrange]

I live in Ottawa,.

Where? My sister is in Nepean

 

[cliftonparksufan]

if they had a starting 5 that could finish in 1st in the MAAC, then those 5 players would be in the MAAC.

they nothing.

You have to wonder if the Scrubbs were even recruited by any American colleges. With the internet and by playing AAU ball you would have to think they got exposure from every D-1, D-2 and D-3 school in this country. I can't guarantee that all 12 guys on Carleton would be offered a D-1 or D-2 scholarship but the top guys definitely would. Maybe it's a very good situation at Carleton that affords them the ability to keep kids home and to continue to win the Canadian national title. I wonder what that one Carleton fan who was posting would say.

 

[rallydoug]

You have to wonder if the Scrubbs were even recruited by any American colleges. With the internet and by playing AAU ball you would have to think they got exposure from every D-1, D-2 and D-3 school in this country. I can't guarantee that all 12 guys on Carleton would be offered a D-1 or D-2 scholarship but the top guys definitely would. Maybe it's a very good situation at Carleton that affords them the ability to keep kids home and to continue to win the Canadian national title. I wonder what that one Carleton fan who was posting would say.

I guess that "one Carleton fan who was posting" would be me!

Interesting thread and for the most part, the comments ring true. This year's Ravens team is not as strong as last year's team. We lost three starters, two 6'7" forwards who played real tough under the baskets and a guard who was a real good rebounder and 3 point shooter. We likely would have won Sunday's game with last year's team. But then, Syracuse can say the same thing!

The question of how Carleton would perform in the NCAA has been endlessly discussed on our forums. It is kind of a mute question, as it will never happen. My estimate would be that they would get into the tournament most years and be seeded around mid-pack in their good years.

I could write several pages about the differences between Canadian university basketball and the NCAA, but here are a few points to ponder:

- In Canada, we have true student athletes. They are students first who also happen to be athletes. We do not have athletic scholarships, although most schools do have some support programs for athletes and some alumni support.
- The Carleton coach, Dave Smart, spends 45 minutes each week with each Ravens player to discuss academic challenges and other needs.
- There are over 100 Canadians playing NCAA D1 basketball this coming season. Perhaps, half of these players could not gain admission academically to a Canadian university.
- The very best Canadian prospects (Wiggins, Ennis, Stouskas, etc.) will never stay in Canada to play university basketball (and who can blame them?).
- Carleton played 8 pre-season games this year against NCAA D1 schools. These games are used as a tool to convince Canadian players to stay at home, attend Carleton and still have an opportunity to play some high profile teams.
- The two best teams in Canada are in Ottawa, Carleton and the University of Ottawa. They will probably play each other again in the championship game in March. Certainly no guarantee that Carleton will win.

Anyway, I love the fact that two totally different approaches to university basketball can result in two teams like Syracuse and Carleton who can play each other and have a tough, competitive and entertaining match-up. I really hope that we see many more of these Orange/Ravens games in the coming years.

 

[jordoo]

[QUOTE"rallydoug, post: 1185462, member: 4981"]I guess that "one Carleton fan who was posting" would be me!

Interesting thread and for the most part, the comments ring true. This year's Ravens team is not as strong as last year's team. We lost three starters, two 6'7" forwards who played real tough under the baskets and a guard who was a real good rebounder and 3 point shooter. We likely would have won Sunday's game with last year's team. But then, Syracuse can say the same thing!

The question of how Carleton would perform in the NCAA has been endlessly discussed on our forums. It is kind of a mute question, as it will never happen. My estimate would be that they would get into the tournament most years and be seeded around mid-pack in their good years.

I could write several pages about the differences between Canadian university basketball and the NCAA, but here are a few points to ponder:

- In Canada, we have true student athletes. They are students first who also happen to be athletes. We do not have athletic scholarships, although most schools do have some support programs for athletes and some alumni support.
- The Carleton coach, Dave Smart, spends 45 minutes each week with each Ravens player to discuss academic challenges and other needs.
- There are over 100 Canadians playing NCAA D1 basketball this coming season. Perhaps, half of these players could not gain admission academically to a Canadian university.
- The very best Canadian prospects (Wiggins, Ennis, Stouskas, etc.) will never stay in Canada to play university basketball (and who can blame them?).
- Carleton played 8 pre-season games this year against NCAA D1 schools. These games are used as a tool to convince Canadian players to stay at home, attend Carleton and still have an opportunity to play some high profile teams.
- The two best teams in Canada are in Ottawa, Carleton and the University of Ottawa. They will probably play each other again in the championship game in March. Certainly no guarantee that Carleton will win.

Anyway, I love the fact that two totally different approaches to university basketball can result in two teams like Syracuse and Carleton who can play each other and have a tough, competitive and entertaining match-up. I really hope that we see many more of these Orange/Ravens games in the coming years.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for all the input. I hope we play you guys anualy as win or lose you provide the best opertunity to improve. I have a lot of respect for your program and coach.

 

[obliterata]

What I wanna know is how Carleton compares to the teams the USA East Coast All-Stars faced in Estonia this summer. Johnson and Roberson played very well in those games, it'd be nice if they can on this side of the ocean.

 

[Cowtown]

Its not just size but also speed and athletic ability combined with size. They only have a few guys who can really hang defending perimeter guys in m2m and IMO they are also their best players which is going to ware them down. I think they could still pull some big upsets the way they shoot, pass and are coached but in general they would be at a mismatch disadvantage at most positions most games.

Two things to add if I may, Jordoo. First, they don't play a grinder schedule. Think of Seton Hall or Providence in the old BE, where they were always running uphill. That wears on a team over the dog days of February. Seems you just can never get out from under the load. The good teams beat you up, and the bottom teams all see you as an opportunity. The second point is similar to what in horse racing is known as "class." There's a reason $10,000 claimers don't win in stakes races. Carleton's kids work hard and compete well, but the truth is they just don't have the pedigree. They didn't grow up playing under veteran coaches or playing regularly against other top players/teams. Nor did they shovel the snow off outdoor courts in February so they could play with boots on like a lot of us did. It's not in their blood like hockey is. Yet. Canadian basketball has come a long way in the last 10-15 years, but a large part of that is because they had a long way to go. So, yes they're getting better but the closer you get the more difficult is to continue making gains. Think of golf. Just because a scratch amateur can shoot a 68 doesn't mean he can win a 4 day tournament against other pros. Just sharing thoughts ...

 

[jordoo]

Two things to add if I may, Jordoo. First, they don't play a grinder schedule. Think of Seton Hall or Providence in the old BE, where they were always running uphill. That wears on a team over the dog days of February. Seems you just can never get out from under the load. The good teams beat you up, and the bottom teams all see you as an opportunity. The second point is similar to what in horse racing is known as "class." There's a reason $10,000 claimers don't win in stakes races. Carleton's kids work hard and compete well, but the truth is they just don't have the pedigree. They didn't grow up playing under veteran coaches or playing regularly against other top players/teams. Nor did they shovel the snow off outdoor courts in February so they could play with boots on like a lot of us did. It's not in their blood like hockey is. Yet. Canadian basketball has come a long way in the last 10-15 years, but a large part of that is because they had a long way to go. So, yes they're getting better but the closer you get the more difficult is to continue making gains. Think of golf. Just because a scratch amateur can shoot a 68 doesn't mean he can win a 4 day tournament against other pros. Just sharing thoughts ...

Most golfers probably don't realize how big the difference between say a high single digit handicap (6-9) and a scratch golfer is. The difference between your average scratch golfer and a touring pro is even bigger than that. I can even go out and periodically shoot under par for 9 holes and I'm probably rolling in at a low double digit handicap right now. I can still hit all the shots but I'm wildly inconsistent which costs me strokes. Scratch golfers are very consistent and can hit the shots needed to save par after making a mistake. Touring pro's are super consistent and would scorch the country clubs most golfers play after a round or two there. Your average scratch golfer is mostly doing it on a course he is very familiar with. Touring pro's are doing it on a new course every week against the best golfers in the world.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

chipping and putting is where you save the shots. The most important part of golf is the 100 and in shots. I have a friend who was a pro and he played on the mini tours in Florida and said you can't believe how good they are at the short game.

 

[jordoo]

chipping and putting is where you save the shots. The most important part of golf is the 100 and in shots. I have a friend who was a pro and he played on the mini tours in Florida and said you can't believe how good they are at the short game.

That's really what I meant by "all the shots". When I played 3 times a week and shot in the 70's from the tips on tough courses I had a very consistent short game. I also made almost every put inside of 6' and a good decent percentage from 6-15'. When a pro is in position from 150 or less they are giving themselves a high percentage birdie put. Not just a makeable distance but also placed in the right position to really have a go at it.

 

[Cowtown]

I shoulda known better than to use a golf analogy with Jordoo ...

 

[jordoo]

I shoulda known better than to use a golf analogy with Jordoo ...

Now we've hijacked the thread! hahaha

 

[Cowtown]

Now we've hijacked the thread! hahaha

Yes, and I'm trying to not do that. But WTH, this one has pretty much run its course. The guy who started the "Is there anyway Kaleb is good enough ..." hijacked his own thread right in the OP. Now that's a skill, LOL!

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

That's really what I meant by "all the shots". When I played 3 times a week and shot in the 70's from the tips on tough courses I had a very consistent short game. I also made almost every put inside of 6' and a good decent percentage from 6-15'. When a pro is in position from 150 or less they are giving themselves a high percentage birdie put. Not just a makeable distance but also placed in the right position to really have a go at it.

was into the wind on every hole and one arm tied behind your back too? lol just busting your chops

 

[jordoo]

was into the wind on every hole and one arm tied behind your back too? lol just busting your chops

LOL, yep and I was drunk but when your young . . . . . . . . ok you got me but who doesn't like to remember their hay day.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

I hear ya I was a lower single digit player 10 years ago and passed the P.A.T. but then you meet a woman have kids and the game goes to hell. I am in the 8 to 10 range now and biggest difference is I don't practice anymore.

 

[jordoo]

I hear ya I was a lower single digit player 10 years ago and passed the P.A.T. but then you meet a woman have kids and the game goes to hell. I am in the 8 to 10 range now and biggest difference is I don't practice anymore.

My wife and starting a family is what did me in too. I also had a ruptured disc and surgery where I ended up not playing for 3 years. Its funny I hit the ball further now than I ever have but my short game is horribly inconsistent and my distance control with wedges and short irons which was once a strength has gone to hell. A couple weeks ago playing with my dad I jacked a sand wedge and flew the green. You just aren't going to score doing that stuff. I did get in about 15 rounds this year and had a couple really nice 10-12 hole stretches where it actually felt like I knew what I was doing.

 

[SBU72]

After scanning the replies< I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that they have 2 or 3 5th year players, i.e. guys who have actually in their 5th year of playing not just eligibility. That gives them a big advantage especially when they go in and play preseason games against young teams. Being in the NCAA, they would not have that. Take a look at the couple of schools last year (Virginia and Florida come to mind) that had a lot of seniors playing. And by the way, at the end of last season in a string on how to improve the college game< I did recommend allowing kids to play their entire 5 years of eligibility. I think that it would benefit both school and players.

 

[jncuse]

Bumping a topic from many years ago of an opponent that captured some interest and intrigue.

A few days ago I heard on the news that the Carleton Dynasty took its first hit of any kind in 21 years. They went 13-9 for the season, and missed the national finals - an 8 team tournament.

This was after a 20 year run where they went 404-21 (95%), and had won 17 national titles.

There were signs that things were "falling" a bit last year after a 20-4 season, that resulted in only a "7 seed" in the final tournament of 8, But they managed to still win that tournament for the national title.

I can't tell you why things fell apart this year as I don't live in Ottawa, and don't listen to much Ottawa sports radio anymore. And can't find any articles online either. Although even when I did listen, the coverage was never that significant. The CIS has much more of a niche following than the NCAA.



I did find this in an article from 2023
"The Ravens dynasty began with former head coach and now director of basketball operations, Dave Smart. Before stepping down in 2019, he had won 14 national crowns and nine OUA championships in 20 years at the helm.

With Charles moving from the Ravens' women's coaching job to the men's, the standard and culture built on hard work hasn't changed — and neither has the raising of championship banners."