wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall for a lester-shafer conversation?

[Alsacs]

During 2011 a lot of people on this board wanted HCDM fired, and that was after his team won the Pinstripe Bowl in 2010. I was not one of them, and I supported HCDM on this board in 2011 in the face of a lot of resistance.

I don't seen any similarity between 2011 and 2015 or 2016 if that is what you are saying.

People turned on Marrone after the Minnesota loss in 2012. 2011 we were 5-2 and got killed by injuries at least 75% of diehards knew this and weren't calling for his head.
Marrone got big time legit heat after the 1-3 start in 2012.

 

[Fjoinkay]

People turned on Marrone after the Minnesota loss in 2012. 2011 we were 5-2 and got killed by injuries at least 75% of diehards knew this and weren't calling for his head.
Marrone got big time legit heat after the 1-3 start in 2012.

Marrone took heat during the 2011 slide even with the injuries. His offense didn't meet a lot of fans' expectations, and the board would light with frustration after each game down the stretch until the end of the season and into the off-season.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

People turned on Marrone after the Minnesota loss in 2012. 2011 we were 5-2 and got killed by injuries at least 75% of diehards knew this and weren't calling for his head.
Marrone got big time legit heat after the 1-3 start in 2012.

That is how I remember it as well, once Pugh came back things started to click

 

[TheCusian]

That is how I remember it as well, once Pugh came back things started to click

And they ran the ball more - not totally unrelated of course.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Look at Indiana football which is very similar to SU's situation . They have kept Wilson there and he has slowly made them competitive . Indiana is no easy win and is really close to being relevant in the B1G , as hard as that is to believe . If Dino stays a while it could be good , if not more wash , rinse , repeat .

So what would have happened when this year's team won two games under Shafer? More of the same? Let him keep building, when it was obvious to anyone with eyeballs that Shafer was in way over his head? The administration acted proactively for once, and it landed us a good coach. And if Babers goes in a a year or five, it will be because we had a winning product on the field for once. Who cares about what the murmurs are? He's here now, and as long as he's here and the O puts up numbers, players will come.

 

[Fjoinkay]

And they ran the ball more - not totally unrelated of course.

Are you referring to the 2012 season?

 

[CousCuse]

So what would have happened when this year's team won two games under Shafer? More of the same? Let him keep building, when it was obvious to anyone with eyeballs that Shafer was in way over his head? The administration acted proactively for once, and it landed us a good coach. And if Babers goes in a a year or five, it will be because we had a winning product on the field for once. Who cares about what the murmurs are? He's here now, and as long as he's here and the O puts up numbers, players will come.

It wasn't obvious to everyone .

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

It wasn't obvious to everyone .

It was obvious to decision makers.

 

[CousCuse]

It was obvious to decision makers.

Coyle ?! The remaining decision makers need to get DB what he wants .

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Coyle ?! The remaining decision makers need to get DB what he wants .

They are. Hence the multitude of new recruiting assistants. And Coyle is a bad judge of coaching talent because he took a job at a different school? Not sure I get your point there.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Coyle ?! The remaining decision makers need to get DB what he wants .

Or maybe they don't... easier said than done. The AD has a job to do and it isn't give the football coach whatever he wants.. sure if we were 8-4 this year I would say yeah give him whatever he wants. two way street

 

[007]

It wasn't obvious to everyone .

This is an island with a total population of maybe 5 people, 1 cat, and a lot of open space where commas once roamed.

 

[CousCuse]

They are. Hence the multitude of new recruiting assistants. And Coyle is a bad judge of coaching talent because he took a job at a different school? Not sure I get your point there.

:noidea:

 

[CousCuse]

This is an island with a total population of maybe 5 people, 1 cat, and a lot of open space where commas once roamed.

It wasn't obvious to Boeheim .

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

It wasn't obvious to Boeheim .

Who cares what the basketball coach thinks when it comes to football?

 

[OrangePA]

Greg Robinson recruited Ryan Nassib, Justin Pugh, Chandler Jones, Alec Lemon, Delone Carter.
So this exercise goes both ways. We never going to be good under Greg Robinson just like it wasn't going to work under Shafer.

Except Shafer won seven games and a bowl game his first year and was dogged by a tough QB situation his second and third years.

He was also instrumental in turning around the mess that we had in 2008.

Greg Robinson won ten games in four years.

You can say what you want about Scott Shafer but comparing him to the Greg Robinson regime is hardly fair or accurate.

 

[Millhouse]

Except Shafer won seven games and a bowl game his first year and was dogged by a tough QB situation his second and third years.

He was also instrumental in turning around the mess that we had in 2008.

Greg Robinson won ten games in four years.

You can say what you want about Scott Shafer but comparing him to the Greg Robinson regime is hardly fair or accurate.

i don't think we ever could've been great under shafer but clearly it's possible for us to be good with him - we saw it happen.

we were never going to be anything but terrible under robinson.

i feel sad for shafer. i don't think his firing was unfair at all but i don't feel like it was some no-brainer had to do it move

 

[TheCusian]

Are you referring to the 2012 season?

Yeah - so was the post I responded to.

 

[Alsacs]

Except Shafer won seven games and a bowl game his first year and was dogged by a tough QB situation his second and third years.

He was also instrumental in turning around the mess that we had in 2008.

Greg Robinson won ten games in four years.

You can say what you want about Scott Shafer but comparing him to the Greg Robinson regime is hardly fair or accurate.

If you are giving Shafer credit for the turn around in 2008 that is generous. I think the talent that Robinson recruited was used properly and I give that credit to Doug Marrone.
14-23 Res Ispa Loquitur
He won 7 games in 2013 but that season was just a continuation of the Marrone .500 run. We didn't have a signature win that year we got destroyed by all good teams and did beat peer schools. I thank him for an average 2013 season but he didn't recruit off that season and went 7-17 the last 2 years. He is a level above Greg Robinson which is the lowest you can get.

 

[OrangePA]

If you are giving Shafer credit for the turn around in 2008 that is generous. I think the talent that Robinson recruited was used properly and I give that credit to Doug Marrone.
14-23 Res Ispa Loquitur
He won 7 games in 2013 but that season was just a continuation of the Marrone .500 run. We didn't have a signature win that year we got destroyed by all good teams and did beat peer schools. I thank him for an average 2013 season but he didn't recruit off that season and went 7-17 the last 2 years. He is a level above Greg Robinson which is the lowest you can get.

Are you really insisting on comparing Scott Shafer to Greg Robinson?

Really?

Recall that when Marrone left, so did Ryan Nassib, Alec Lemon, Chandler Jones [and Justin Pugh?]; the 2013 recruiting class for that year and nearly the entire coaching staff.

I think most objective folks would agree that Scott did a pretty decent job in 2013.

And, I think most would agree that he was faced with a nightmare scenario when he lost his QBs during the 2013 season. And, by last year Scott was working with a very, very green defensive unit.

Clearly, he whiffed on George McDonald, but in my opinion did not whiff on Tim Lester, who I think ran a pretty effective offense last year given the brief amount of time he had to develop his offensive program. (Coach Babers maintains that it takes more than one season to install an offense)

And, I will acknowledge that Scott pressed a lot last year and made some decisions that I would not have made - he did so knowing that his job was on the line.

But, again, trying to make a comparison to the Greg Robinson era is just not accurate or fair.

Sorry, we disagree on that by a lot.

 

[OrangePA]

i don't think we ever could've been great under shafer but clearly it's possible for us to be good with him - we saw it happen.

we were never going to be anything but terrible under robinson.

i feel sad for shafer. i don't think his firing was unfair at all but i don't feel like it was some no-brainer had to do it move

It's all speculation.

But I agree with the substance of your post.

The thought was that Scott Shafer was just not an effective CEO - at least not effective enough.

 

[SoBristol]

....
Recall that when Marrone left, so did Ryan Nassib, Alec Lemon, Chandler Jones [and Justin Pugh?]; the 2013 recruiting class for that year and nearly the entire coaching staff.
I think most objective folks would agree that Scott did a pretty decent job in 2013.
And, I think most would agree that he was faced with a nightmare scenario when he lost his QBs during the 2013 season. And, by last year Scott was working with a very, very green defensive unit.
Clearly, he whiffed on George McDonald, but in my opinion did not whiff on Tim Lester ...
And, I will acknowledge that Scott pressed a lot last year and made some decisions that I would not ...
But, again, trying to make a comparison to the Greg Robinson era is just not accurate ...
.

I agree with most of that. Shafer also did a decent job with the 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes -- many of those recruits were the team's leaders this season (Phillips, Dungey, Conway, Clark, Slayton, Franklin, Bennett, Ishmael), and will be part of Babers' success next season. I expect Babers to improve on those recruiting results, but we still ought to give Shafer credit for what he did.

Shafer was not the best at maintaining a calm attitude in the face of adversity. That is not easy to do. Dino Babers is unusually good at it.

 

[Alsacs]

Are you really insisting on comparing Scott Shafer to Greg Robinson?

Really?

Recall that when Marrone left, so did Ryan Nassib, Alec Lemon, Chandler Jones [and Justin Pugh?]; the 2013 recruiting class for that year and nearly the entire coaching staff.

I think most objective folks would agree that Scott did a pretty decent job in 2013.

And, I think most would agree that he was faced with a nightmare scenario when he lost his QBs during the 2013 season. And, by last year Scott was working with a very, very green defensive unit.

Clearly, he whiffed on George McDonald, but in my opinion did not whiff on Tim Lester, who I think ran a pretty effective offense last year given the brief amount of time he had to develop his offensive program. (Coach Babers maintains that it takes more than one season to install an offense)

And, I will acknowledge that Scott pressed a lot last year and made some decisions that I would not have made - he did so knowing that his job was on the line.

But, again, trying to make a comparison to the Greg Robinson era is just not accurate or fair.

Sorry, we disagree on that by a lot.

I said he is a level above Greg Robinson.
Robinson is the lowest level to grade a coach. shafer is a level above.
Meaning Greg Robinson was an F and Shafer was a D.

 

[OrangePA]

I agree with most of that. Shafer also did a decent job with the 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes -- many of those recruits were the team's leaders this season (Phillips, Dungey, Conway, Clark, Slayton, Franklin, Bennett, Ishmael), and will be part of Babers' success next season. I expect Babers to improve on those recruiting results, but we still ought to give Shafer credit for what he did.

Shafer was not the best at maintaining a calm attitude in the face of adversity. That is not easy to do. Dino Babers is unusually good at it.

Very fair observation.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Yeah - so was the post I responded to.

Ok, the reason I asked is because when I think of 2012 I think of the SU offense clicking and Nassib having a break-out season teaming up with Lemon and others. They were sitting at below .500 (4-5), and then they won out going 7-5 and then beating WVU in the Pinstripe to finish 8-5. Had to be the high point under Marrone, and hours later he took the job with the Bills.

I felt then and I still feel now that a big reason Marrone left when he did was because of the heat he took during the 2011 season when an injured SU squad lost its final 5 games and missed out on a bowl game. Marrone had already completely turned the program around winning the Pinstripe in 2010, but many fans expected another bowl game in 2011 and even though the team had a lot of injuries Marrone was heavily criticized.

And that heat continued into the 2012 season when the team had a slow start. After the 2012 squad turned it around and finished the season with an impressive performance in the snow at Yankee Stadium Marrone left.