wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall for a lester-shafer conversation?

[TheCusian]

Ok, the reason I asked is because when I think of 2012 I think of the SU offense clicking and Nassib having a break-out season teaming up with Lemon and others. They were sitting at below .500 (4-5), and then they won out going 7-5 and then beating WVU in the Pinstripe to finish 8-5. Had to be the high point under Marrone, and hours later he took the job with the Bills.

I felt then and I still feel now that a big reason Marrone left when he did was because of the heat he took during the 2011 season when an injured SU squad lost its final 5 games and missed out on a bowl game. Marrone had already completely turned the program around winning the Pinstripe in 2010, but many fans expected another bowl game in 2011 and even though the team had a lot of injuries Marrone was heavily criticized.

And that heat continued into the 2012 season when the team had a slow start. After the 2012 squad turned it around and finished the season with an impressive performance in the snow at Yankee Stadium Marrone left.

2010 was fool's gold a little bit, since the schedule was in the 100's. I don't think that year signaled quite the turnaround we all hoped. But it was nice considering the recent past. The offense was pretty bad, the D was decent.

2011 was highlighted by that WVU win which gave me more hope than the entire 2010 season. Injuries got us for sure - but our O was still pretty bad.

2012 was headed downhill until Pugh came back and they married the run to the decent passing game (this was my point above). It made our O very good. That was the best team we've had in a long time. Followed by Shafer's first team in 2013, which was sneaky good vs a really tough schedule.

 

[Fjoinkay]

2010 was fool's gold a little bit, since the schedule was in the 100's. I don't think that year signaled quite the turnaround we all hoped. But it was nice considering the recent past. The offense was pretty bad, the D was decent.

2011 was highlighted by that WVU win which gave me more hope than the entire 2010 season. Injuries got us for sure - but our O was still pretty bad.

2012 was headed downhill until Pugh came back and they married the run to the decent passing game (this was my point above). It made our O very good. That was the best team we've had in a long time. Followed by Shafer's first team in 2013, which was sneaky good vs a really tough schedule.

You make my point a little bit about Marrone taking mis-guided or excessive heat during 2011. People on this board in 2011 wanted him fired.

The 2010 Pinstripe win over Kansas State with DC3 and not much else on offense that season, and a top defense despite having to defend freqntly due to 3-and-outs by the O, raised expectations through the roof. SU fans are awesome, none more passionate, when a team does well, but when a team does poorly or fails to meet expectations all of that passion goes to the other end of the spectrum.

I think Marrone felt like he deserved better from the SU faithful and the media during 2011 and early 2012 especially conidering the state of the program at the end of 2008.

 

[OrangePA]

I said he is a level above Greg Robinson.
Robinson is the lowest level to grade a coach. shafer is a level above.
Meaning Greg Robinson was an F and Shafer was a D.

The other thing to recall, by the way, was that Greg Robinson inherited a 6-6 bowl team - a team that had beaten BC, Pitt, Rutgers and UConn and that had given FSU all it could handle in the Dome. Yes, the Orange were beaten up in the Champs Bowl but that happens a lot after a month off.

Still, Greg inherited a team that had won six games and proceeded to win one game the following year.

That, I think, places what Scott did in 2013 in proper perspective.

 

[Alsacs]

You make my point a little bit about Marrone taking mis-guided or excessive heat during 2011. People on this board in 2011 wanted him fired.

The 2010 Pinstripe win over Kansas State with DC3 and not much else on offense that season, and a top defense despite having to defend freqntly due to 3-and-outs by the O, raised expectations through the roof. SU fans are awesome, none more passionate, when a team does well, but when a team does poorly or fails to meet expectations all of that passion goes to the other end of the spectrum.

I think Marrone felt like he deserved better from the SU faithful and the media during 2011 and early 2012 especially conidering the state of the program at the end of 2008.

I am sorry but 2011 our fanbase didn't freak out. I remember the board being fans but not calling for his head.
We as fans knew injuries were killing us and that our really only hope for that 6th win was a Friday night home game against USF which we lost.
Then the rest of the season we knew winning that 6th game was going to be tough. 2011 was seen as the bare minimum to be okay. Also our D really let the team down in that 12th game at Pitt.

 

[Finwad32]

I am sorry but 2011 our fanbase didn't freak out. I remember the board being fans but not calling for his head.
We as fans knew injuries were killing us and that our really only hope for that 6th win was a Friday night home game against USF which we lost.
Then the rest of the season we knew winning that 6th game was going to be tough. 2011 was seen as the bare minimum to be okay. Also our D really let the team down in that 12th game at Pitt.

People were absolutely calling for his head after '11... People were extremely tired of watching that pro-style ball control offense. Marrone never became embraced, or even thought of highly until after 2012.

 

[Alsacs]

People were absolutely calling for his head after '11... People were extremely tired of watching that pro-style ball control offense. Marrone never became embraced, or even thought of highly until after 2012.

How many people? I mean I am sure they are people calling for Dino's head after this year.
Marrone's 2010 was getting him 2012 after the Robinson Era.
I am sorry but a small minority may have been calling for Marrone after 2011.
The injury bug killed the team the last 4 games of 2011.
Marrone got killed after the 1-3 start and Minnesota loss in 2012.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Any fanbase would freak out over a 7 game losing streak. Especially when it spans the end and beginning of consecutive seasons.

But for Stonybrook in 2012 (a 28-17 meat grinder) Marrone's losing steak would've been 8 games.

I'm not justifying people who called for Marrone'a scalp, just pointing out that the team's performance in that timeframe made it pretty easy to doubt Marrone's plan.

 

[Finwad32]

How many people? I mean I am sure they are people calling for Dino's head after this year.
Marrone's 2010 was getting him 2012 after the Robinson Era.
I am sorry but a small minority may have been calling for Marrone after 2011.
The injury bug killed the team the last 4 games of 2011.
Marrone got killed after the 1-3 start and Minnesota loss in 2012.

Alot of people, the board, which I think was still at TOS at the time was completely divided on the hiring from jump, I'm pretty confident more skeptical than not.

During 2011, when we were 5-2, people started to believe, especially after the first Pinstripe bowl. But, by the end of that season, the roars were deafening that he was a terrible game manager. His offense was hated. He never had alot of confidence from this board until the explosion to the last half of 2012.

 

[Fjoinkay]

I am sorry but 2011 our fanbase didn't freak out. I remember the board being fans but not calling for his head.
We as fans knew injuries were killing us and that our really only hope for that 6th win was a Friday night home game against USF which we lost.
Then the rest of the season we knew winning that 6th game was going to be tough. 2011 was seen as the bare minimum to be okay. Also our D really let the team down in that 12th game at Pitt.

I like your take on the 2011 season (that was my thinking more or less at the time), but I hope you will forgive me if I experienced the board reaction much differently that year.

I prefer to be mistaken about the board in 2011. If I have time this weekend I will go back and take a look at some my posts from that time, but I recall, like Finwad, that a large part of the faithful on this board were very negative and critical of Marrrone as the 2011 season wound down and then into the 2012 season.

 

[TheCusian]

People were absolutely calling for his head after '11... People were extremely tired of watching that pro-style ball control offense. Marrone never became embraced, or even thought of highly until after 2012.

Yep. There was a lot of questioning of his offensive chops until he and Hackett stumbled on the RPO and tempo (i.e. college offense) in 2012. And then, only after we started running it well.

 

[TheCusian]

How many people? I mean I am sure they are people calling for Dino's head after this year.
Marrone's 2010 was getting him 2012 after the Robinson Era.
I am sorry but a small minority may have been calling for Marrone after 2011.
The injury bug killed the team the last 4 games of 2011.
Marrone got killed after the 1-3 start and Minnesota loss in 2012.

This place was a disaster after the Cinci "buh-bye big east" loss in 2012. Not many people called the run to end that year.

 

[Alsacs]

This place was a disaster after the Cinci "buh-bye big east" loss in 2012. Not many people called the run to end that year.

Nah man that Cincy game our fans were pissed at the refs. We played 18 on 11 that game. Reddish had a pick 6 called back in the 3rd quarter. Refs killed us that game and Marrone made a dumb decision to attempt a FG when the offense was clicking.
Marrone took his heat 2 times in 2012 after Minnesota and after Rutgers when special teams lost us that game.

 

[orangenirvana]

Nah man that Cincy game our fans were pissed at the refs. We played 18 on 11 that game. Reddish had a pick 6 called back in the 3rd quarter. Refs killed us that game and Marrone made a dumb decision to attempt a FG when the offense was clicking.
Marrone took his heat 2 times in 2012 after Minnesota and after Rutgers when special teams lost us that game.

Nope, I was pissed at Meathead Marrone for attempting a 45 yard field goal with a struggling kicker in the rain and wind down multiple possessions in the 4th quarter on 4th and short.

 

[TheCusian]

Nah man that Cincy game our fans were pissed at the refs. We played 18 on 11 that game. Reddish had a pick 6 called back in the 3rd quarter. Refs killed us that game and Marrone made a dumb decision to attempt a FG when the offense was clicking.
Marrone took his heat 2 times in 2012 after Minnesota and after Rutgers when special teams lost us that game.

I hear you.

I joined the forum after that game due to people killing Marrone.

 

[Chip]

People were absolutely calling for his head after '11... People were extremely tired of watching that pro-style ball control offense. Marrone never became embraced, or even thought of highly until after 2012.

Personally, I don't think I went that far, but I'll admit, I'm sure I complained an awful lot.

I really wanted Marrone to be a lifer here, and I was upset when he left.

You could tell from Day 1, definitely from Game 1, that he was an instant upgrade in nearly every way. Not that it was hard to be an upgrade...

Oh well...

 

[Fjoinkay]

I hear you.

I joined the forum after that game due to people killing Marrone.

In some ways Marrone was imprisoned by his own success. It's not easy being the SU football coach. The fans are awesome and uniquely loud and fun in my biased opinion, but when that passion goes negative it can quickly become more than is warranted.

I know plenty of people who aren't SU grads who think the SU football fan base is a little out of whack, but I tell them that they just haven't seen the fanbase when the program is successful.

 

[orangenirvana]

Nope, I was pissed at Meathead Marrone for attempting a 45 yard field goal with a struggling kicker in the rain and wind down multiple possessions in the 4th quarter on 4th and short.

I remember making this thread like it was yesterday.

 

[Millhouse]

I remember making this thread like it was yesterday.

Then he went to the bills and did the same stuff over again

The bills wanted 2012 and got 2011

 

[Fjoinkay]

Then he went to the bills and did the same stuff over again

The bills wanted 2012 and got 2011

Marrone's decision to leave SU took me by complete surprise. Even though my sense was that he was upset with the local media and he felt like he deserved more from the SU fans, I never expected him to leave. When I walked out of Yankee Stadium after the Pinstripe I was feeling very good about SU football with Marrone as the coach.

This season with the new coaching staff the board has been about as patient and optimistic as one could ever reasonably hope for or expect.

 

[OrangePA]

Alot of people, the board, which I think was still at TOS at the time was completely divided on the hiring from jump, I'm pretty confident more skeptical than not.

During 2011, when we were 5-2, people started to believe, especially after the first Pinstripe bowl. But, by the end of that season, the roars were deafening that he was a terrible game manager. His offense was hated. He never had alot of confidence from this board until the explosion to the last half of 2012.

I don't remember a groundswell at all.

We had gone bowling in Year 2 for gosh sakes.

I thought Marrone would be a lifer right after the second Pinstripe Bowl win.

 

[elimunelson]

Marrones tenure to me felt like a security blanket. We felt like SU again right down to the uniforms. Him leaving surprised me.

After the last Pinstripe I felt like we were in good hands for 10-15 years and heading into the ACC. We entered a harder conference w coaching uncertainty which hurt us a lot.

 

[orange79]

I don't remember a groundswell at all.

We had gone bowling in Year 2 for gosh sakes.

I thought Marrone would be a lifer right after the second Pinstripe Bowl win.

He was roundly and repeatedly criticized/questioned for his in-game decisions on the board.

 

[Alsacs]

He was roundly and repeatedly criticized/questioned for his in-game decisions on the board.

That happens to all coaches when they lose games. Alabama fans killed Saban after he lost to Ohio State two years ago in the CFB playoffs.
Marrone got criticized but the fanbase wasn't calling for his head in 2011. An overwhelming majority realized it was injuries that killed us but he got criticized because we are fans. Marrone wasn't getting major heat till the playoffs 1-3 start in 2012. The day after the Minnesota game was brutal on here.

 

[007]

He was roundly and repeatedly criticized/questioned for his in-game decisions on the board.

Absolutely true.

I was a big fan of DM as the HC at SU (not so much after he left and gutted the staff). There is no disputing the "fact," in my mind anyway, that Marrone went through a huge learning curve as a first time HC. Including right up to 2 weeks before the start of the 2012 season when he revamped the O with Hackett.

Love him or hate him, it's irrelevant now. But, with the seasoned 2012 version as HC, I always had this feeling that Marrone's game planning gave gave us at least a chance on the field to beat whoever we were playing.

 

[TheCusian]

Marrone is good at going from really bad to competent. But he was always going to handicapped by his disinterest in recruiting.

His ceiling is lower than Babers. Babers is Marrone, but with a worse defense and a proven offensive system. Just wishwe still played a Big East schedule.