2012 Class - Redshirts

[CbusCuse]

By my count 13 of 23 freshman were redshirted in 2011. I expect an even greater percentage will redshirt this coming fall. Really like that the trend is finally to redshirt a good deal of the incoming freshman. Most recruits we recruit are not ready physically and/or mental for football at the BCS level. Rarely can an incoming frosh play at a much higher level than another person that could possibly play in their place. That being said some players are required for specials contributions, a lack of bodies at a position, and sometimes a player may need to get thrown to the wolves for experience to get ready to take over significant minutes the following year.

I enjoy spending way too much time following SU recruiting. Now that signing day has past lets take a VERY EARLY look at which incoming freshman will play and which will redshirt along with a quick glance at the depth chart. My opinions:

QB - Ashton Broyld; REDSHIRT.
The only way he plays is if he shows enough by fall practice that he is likely the heir apparent to Nassib. I doubt thats the case for someone who doesn't look like a very polished passer. I think Hunt or Kinder could handle a change of pace role if that is all that is needed.

RB - George Morris; REDSHIRT.
See above. If he doesn't come in and completely blow the doors off he redshirts. My guess is Gulley will get maybe 50% of the carries and Smith/AAM will probably share the others.

FB - Myles Davis; PLAYS
I think he plays no matter what as he's an older physically ready player. If his knee isn't 100% it probably won't ever be. Either way he gets ready to take over next year and plays specials. Not much else there for depth.

TE - Ron Thompson and Josh Parris; REDSHIRT for both.
I think Parris will likely be as ready to play right away as Thompson. He is a little more stout and I see him playing this year first if they need players due to injury or for specials. Thompson doesn't bring anything to the table this year that Stevens can't bring and his future as a receiving tight end is good so save him. Stevens and Wales get the majority of the minutes this year. Hopefully we get to see a little of what Addazio can contribute.

WR - Alvin Cornelius and Ben Lewis; REDSHIRT
Neither will be significantly better than who we can throw out there this year and there is a fair amount of bodies. Lewis doesn't get talked about at all but I think he is a Lemon clone and is more polished than many receiver that come in. I think he runs pretty good routes, has great hands (from highlights; whatever that is worth) and really seems to go up and get it. I think he is probably faster than most think as well. He may be a very critical pick up and may be ready to take over for Lemon in 2013 as more of a possession type receiver. Haven't seen enough of Cornelius on tape but I like him too. With Lemon, Sales (probably/hopefuly), West, Hale, Foster and Kobena we are pretty deep. All with an extra year experience. Like the potential of both Hale and Foster for the future as well. Kobena seems like a little bit of a headcase to me. Will Flemming ever play?

OL - Kyle Knapp, Jason Emerich, Omari Palmer and Ben Barrett; REDSHIRT for all.
All need to get bigger and stronger excluding Palmer who needs to work on his feet. We are fairly deep all around on the line. Good future. Pugh starts. 2 spots on the right are open. Do Chibane and Mackey hold on to starting spots? Hickey, Alexander, Trudo, Foy, Curtis, Robinson and Phillips should push.

DT - Zian Jones and Marcus Coleman; REDSHIRT for both.
Z. Jones could definitely play if he shows up and is a beast but the transition to BCS level is tough. Most probably think Z. Jones will play but I think his situation may be similar to Goggins two years ago. Especially since we only brought in one frosh at the position we will be pretty thin after this year when Goggins and Boatman graduate and I think we need to save him for when he may really be needed. Bromley, Goggins and Crume should get major minutes. Sloan will probably be fourth in line and Welsh can get what ever is left.

DE - Markus Pierce-Brewster -PLAY; Josh Manley -REDSHIRT, Myles Hilliard; REDSHIRT
Sharp and Mica Robinson will probably start with MPB and possibly Donnie Simmons getting some run to try and gerate some pressure on the QB. I think Hilliard is probably a little less ready than Manley. Manley may end up playing if we end up needing another DE with some size and he can add to specials.

LB - James Washington - REDSHIRT;
May be good in the near future but Washington played DE in high school and isn't ready to play LB yet. May get moved to DE in future as I think that may have been the plan for him but with the void of signings at the position he gets put here for now. Really though Myles Davis was going to be another good MLB which I think we need and disappointed we didn't bring one in this year. We need some more beef in the middle. The addition of Vigille to the line up and probably Mungwa's switch to LB, from how it sounds should help.

CB - Wayne Morgan; ?
If Eskridge indeed gets moved to CB like some say than I think Morgan may redshirt. We would have Lynn, Anderson, Eskridge, Desir, Reddish and George. If Eskridge stays at safety he probably comes in and gets some run as long as he looks as advertised. Would love to be able to redshirt a player like Morgan. After a redshirt we could have a great Corner for 4 years.

FS - Julian Whigham; REDSHIRT.
IF Eskridge stays at safety Whigham gets redshirted. As good as he may be he is pretty darn skinny right now. He needs a year in the weight room. I think he projects to FS better than CB. Maybe this is where the Eskridge to CB makes sense. I like a playmaker with some size and Whigham could be that at FS if he puts the weight on. Eskridge may be the playmaker with size at CB along with Desir in the future if he can put on some weight. Desir probably stays at corner until he puts on weight.

SS - Dontez Ford and Devante Mc Farlane; One PLAYS & One REDSHIRTS.
Not sure where to put McFarlane. He may just get some minutes for specials purposes. If that is the case maybe he gets the back-up minutes. Hard to guess who is better here but I would guess Ford would be more likely to be the future. We have Shamarko for one more year and we need to get somebody ready. If no McFarlane here other possibilities for third string help would be Morgan if he ends up playing, and Mungwa or possibly Diabate could help out if needed.

 

[OrangeAl]

Correction: Myles Hilliard (not Simmons) at DE.
Interesting predictions of a conservative philosophy with these guys.
Of course Norton will be kicking off this year unless he suddenly loses ten yards.

 

[memcorsu]

FWIW, I think I have seen it posted that Desir might be moving to LB also. Good wright up, thanks.

 

[syr02esq]

Like your analysis!

 

[CPark Orange]

Desir is NOT moving to LB

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Mungwa might move to LB. Desir weighs 168.

 

[SoBristol]

Agree with some of the post (mainly the true frosh OL and DL), but:

our DB recruits have typically played on coverage teams -- and I predict it will happen again this year as we need help. Maybe not Whigham, but each of the others.
McFarlane will get a shot at the Graham role (slotback or wingback) -- need an upgrade there.

Broyld already has had a PG year at Milford, is ready physically, and is one of the better athletes in this class. If you think of him as a passer, I can see why you think of a RS. But he is too good to sit out. Already enrolled and will have Spring practice. Wildcat QB or find other ways to get him the ball.

Zian Jones is 6 ft 4, 310 -- he will be on the field in the DL rotation.

Morris -- there is a history of having RBs play as frosh after the first 4 or 5 games. AAM, Gulley, and Bailey all played as frosh. We aren't that deep or talented at RB -- or at KR for that matter.

The two TEs and Cornelius -- at least 50/50 that they will not RS. Again, consider specials, the need for a 3rd TE, and depth/injuries.

 

[CbusCuse]

Correction: Myles Hilliard (not Simmons) at DE.
Interesting predictions of a conservative philosophy with these guys.
Of course Norton will be kicking off this year unless he suddenly loses ten yards.

Corrected. Myles Hilliard is what I meant to type.

Forgot to include Nortorn as and he almost surely will be doing kickoffs.

 

[mikekan14]

You're pretty much redshirting the entire incoming class. I understand the idea of
"saving them for later" and not wasting eligibility but if they come in and are better than the upperclassmen in the 2 and 3 deep spots, they'll see time and we need as much speed and tackling on the field as possible. To me, that's enough to not redshirt as many of them.

We need to be competitive now. If the true freshmen waste a year playing sparingly or only on special teams but we win an extra game, it'll be worth it. Having a winning team will restock the cupboard with recruits on its own and we won't have to worry about redshirting and saving them for future years.

I think Zian Jones and Thompson/Parris play.

 

[CbusCuse]

Agree with some of the post (mainly the true frosh OL and DL), but:

our DB recruits have typically played on coverage teams -- and I predict it will happen again this year as we need help. Maybe not Whigham, but each of the others.
McFarlane will get a shot at the Graham role (slotback or wingback) -- need an upgrade there.

Broyld already has had a PG year at Milford, is ready physically, and is one of the better athletes in this class. If you think of him as a passer, I can see why you think of a RS. But he is too good to sit out. Already enrolled and will have Spring practice. Wildcat QB or find other ways to get him the ball.

Zian Jones is 6 ft 4, 310 -- he will be on the field in the DL rotation.

Morris -- there is a history of having RBs play as frosh after the first 4 or 5 games. AAM, Gulley, and Bailey all played as frosh. We aren't that deep or talented at RB -- or at KR for that matter.

The two TEs and Cornelius -- at least 50/50 that they will not RS. Again, consider specials, the need for a 3rd TE, and depth/injuries.

This was kind of conservative as its hard to say how many guys will be needed for specials. Mostly written with position play time being considered. Agree coverage teams may possibly cause a few more to play.

I could definitely see Broyld playing but its pretty tough to tell if a QB will be ready to play write away. A lot to learn at that position but i'm sure they would give him a limited play book.

Zian Jones would definitely play if he comes in and is already one of the top two DE's.

Morris definitely plays if Gulley get injured.

I still think Cornelius redshirts based on position but could be needed for specials and only one TE may play. We also have Addazio as a 3rd TE. Obviously injuries throw off any initial ideas of redshirt and I meant to state a disclaimer about that.

 

[GoSU96]

By my count 13 of 23 freshman were redshirted in 2011. I expect an even greater percentage will redshirt this coming fall. Really like that the trend is finally to redshirt a good deal of the incoming freshman. Most recruits we recruit are not ready physically and/or mental for football at the BCS level. Rarely can an incoming frosh play at a much higher level than another person that could possibly play in their place. That being said some players are required for specials contributions, a lack of bodies at a position, and sometimes a player may need to get thrown to the wolves for experience to get ready to take over significant minutes the following year.

I enjoy spending way too much time following SU recruiting. Now that signing day has past lets take a VERY EARLY look at which incoming freshman will play and which will redshirt along with a quick glance at the depth chart. My opinions:

QB - Ashton Broyld; REDSHIRT.
The only way he plays is if he shows enough by fall practice that he is likely the heir apparent to Nassib. I doubt thats the case for someone who doesn't look like a very polished passer. I think Hunt or Kinder could handle a change of pace role if that is all that is needed.

RB - George Morris; REDSHIRT.
See above. If he doesn't come in and completely blow the doors off he redshirts. My guess is Gulley will get maybe 50% of the carries and Smith/AAM will probably share the others.

FB - Myles Davis; PLAYS
I think he plays no matter what as he's an older physically ready player. If his knee isn't 100% it probably won't ever be. Either way he gets ready to take over next year and plays specials. Not much else there for depth.

TE - Ron Thompson and Josh Parris; REDSHIRT for both.
I think Parris will likely be as ready to play right away as Thompson. He is a little more stout and I see him playing this year first if they need players due to injury or for specials. Thompson doesn't bring anything to the table this year that Stevens can't bring and his future as a receiving tight end is good so save him. Stevens and Wales get the majority of the minutes this year. Hopefully we get to see a little of what Addazio can contribute.

WR - Alvin Cornelius and Ben Lewis; REDSHIRT
Neither will be significantly better than who we can throw out there this year and there is a fair amount of bodies. Lewis doesn't get talked about at all but I think he is a Lemon clone and is more polished than many receiver that come in. I think he runs pretty good routes, has great hands (from highlights; whatever that is worth) and really seems to go up and get it. I think he is probably faster than most think as well. He may be a very critical pick up and may be ready to take over for Lemon in 2013 as more of a possession type receiver. Haven't seen enough of Cornelius on tape but I like him too. With Lemon, Sales (probably/hopefuly), West, Hale, Foster and Kobena we are pretty deep. All with an extra year experience. Like the potential of both Hale and Foster for the future as well. Kobena seems like a little bit of a headcase to me. Will Flemming ever play?

OL - Kyle Knapp, Jason Emerich, Omari Palmer and Ben Barrett; REDSHIRT for all.
All need to get bigger and stronger excluding Palmer who needs to work on his feet. We are fairly deep all around on the line. Good future. Pugh starts. 2 spots on the right are open. Do Chibane and Mackey hold on to starting spots? Hickey, Alexander, Trudo, Foy, Curtis, Robinson and Phillips should push.

DT - Zian Jones and Marcus Coleman; REDSHIRT for both.
Z. Jones could definitely play if he shows up and is a beast but the transition to BCS level is tough. Most probably think Z. Jones will play but I think his situation may be similar to Goggins two years ago. Especially since we only brought in one frosh at the position we will be pretty thin after this year when Goggins and Boatman graduate and I think we need to save him for when he may really be needed. Bromley, Goggins and Crume should get major minutes. Sloan will probably be fourth in line and Welsh can get what ever is left.

DE - Markus Pierce-Brewster -PLAY; Josh Manley -REDSHIRT, Myles Hilliard; REDSHIRT
Sharp and Mica Robinson will probably start with MPB and possibly Donnie Simmons getting some run to try and gerate some pressure on the QB. I think Hilliard is probably a little less ready than Manley. Manley may end up playing if we end up needing another DE with some size and he can add to specials.

LB - James Washington - REDSHIRT;
May be good in the near future but Washington played DE in high school and isn't ready to play LB yet. May get moved to DE in future as I think that may have been the plan for him but with the void of signings at the position he gets put here for now. Really though Myles Davis was going to be another good MLB which I think we need and disappointed we didn't bring one in this year. We need some more beef in the middle. The addition of Vigille to the line up and probably Mungwa's switch to LB, from how it sounds should help.

CB - Wayne Morgan; ?
If Eskridge indeed gets moved to CB like some say than I think Morgan may redshirt. We would have Lynn, Anderson, Eskridge, Desir, Reddish and George. If Eskridge stays at safety he probably comes in and gets some run as long as he looks as advertised. Would love to be able to redshirt a player like Morgan. After a redshirt we could have a great Corner for 4 years.

FS - Julian Whigham; REDSHIRT.
IF Eskridge stays at safety Whigham gets redshirted. As good as he may be he is pretty darn skinny right now. He needs a year in the weight room. I think he projects to FS better than CB. Maybe this is where the Eskridge to CB makes sense. I like a playmaker with some size and Whigham could be that at FS if he puts the weight on. Eskridge may be the playmaker with size at CB along with Desir in the future if he can put on some weight. Desir probably stays at corner until he puts on weight.

SS - Dontez Ford and Devante Mc Farlane; One PLAYS & One REDSHIRTS.
Not sure where to put McFarlane. He may just get some minutes for specials purposes. If that is the case maybe he gets the back-up minutes. Hard to guess who is better here but I would guess Ford would be more likely to be the future. We have Shamarko for one more year and we need to get somebody ready. If no McFarlane here other possibilities for third string help would be Morgan if he ends up playing, and Mungwa or possibly Diabate could help out if needed.

Jones and Brewster will play.

The OL all red shirt.

Other than that, it should be interesting.

 

[RMH44]

Agree with some of the post (mainly the true frosh OL and DL), but:


Broyld already has had a PG year at Milford, is ready physically, and is one of the better athletes in this class. If you think of him as a passer, I can see why you think of a RS. But he is too good to sit out. Already enrolled and will have Spring practice. Wildcat QB or find other ways to get him the ball.

I really hope Brold makes it as a QB but if the staff decides to move him to another position, I wonder how he'd fit at MLB? He could easily add 15-20 lbs and be a monster on the inside.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I really hope Brold makes as a QB but if the staff decides to move him to another position, I wonder how he'd fit at MLB? He could easily add 15-20 lbs and be a monster on the inside.

That's where I would like to see him. He was such a monster against Troy in the Dome two year ago. His play at both Safety (agility) and Defensive End (power and speed) really stood out to me. Mike seems like a good fit for his ability.

 

[orangephan]

FWIW, I think I have seen it posted that Desir might be moving to LB also. Good wright up, thanks.

Do you mean Desir to FS? No way he moves to LB at 5'11", 175lbs.

 

[orangephan]

Jones and Brewster will play.

The OL all red shirt.

Other than that, it should be interesting.

Go, that's about how I see it. Very nice assessment by CBus, btw. He's made some interesting points, some dead on. I might add a few of my own thoughts here: (1) It appears the FB job is Davis' to win or lose in the spring. Who else is in the mix? A really undefined position and I can see why the staff is slotting him there. He was a pretty good HS FB I hear. (2) I do think one of the incoming TEs will get some PT because of the multiple rotation we use at the position. (3) Morris will have to prove himself this summer, but if there's an injury, or somebody doesn't step up, I think he'll get some rotational PT. (4) The only OL that has an outside chance at the 2-deep is Palmer; he's got the size, but he'd have to move someone down from a deep group. I think he's a RS. (5) We don't know if Z-Jones can RS, do we? I think he should be able to break into the 4-OT rotation, allowing Goggins to play a hybrid DT/DE. Too bad he and MPB weren't here for spring drills. Rush end is likely MPB's to lose, he should be a lock coming in. (6) If Spruill's back 100%, I'm not as concerned with LB depth like some here. I'm certain Vigille and Mungwa will contribute to making the LB depth very serviceable. (7) I don't think anyone realizes how good Wigham really is. He's listed at 6'1", 175lbs. I think if he gets a little bigger and stronger coming in, he's got a good chance at the #4 CB spot, along with either George or Morgan. I agree, either Morgan or Whigham could wind up at S eventually. (6) Desir is moving to FS and Mungwa's moving to WIL. Ford could make it as the back-up SS, another under-valued/under-evaluated player. McFarlane also has an outside chance to claim this spot. I think S is where the coaches want him and need him.

 

[memcorsu]

Do you mean Desir to FS? No way he moves to LB at 5'11", 175lbs.

Sry, meant Mungwa and Vigille at the same time. Just graduated and trying to get my mind into the real world and find a job. I'm in a cloud from time to time.