2019 Fall Ball ...

[ivorytower]

You can only dress 32 in an NCAA tournament game.

Indeed but cited those roster sizes because carrying a more modest sized roster during the year may be a more manageable and efficient use of everyone's time

 

[ivorytower]

All very true. Wonder what the process was like with DePietro. At least in his case it was probably more definite that he would receive a starting role with Cunningham and Bomberry graduating, whereas with Lauder and Quinn and guys like that there is still a chance they would get out played by some of the young guns even after redshirting. Just hard to tell if they are "a good match" or not when they are guaranteed to play behind 4 or 5 guys their last 2 years.

Envison Quin playing on 2nd line this year and Lauder having a role. Reality is everyone on roster can play lacrosse well but gotta be a tough call for those players and their families who are the very gray area on depth chart. Ford, Chavez, OSullivan and Martin were rs jus that could have returned in 19 but choose not to while rs jrs Carlin, Schasnick and McKinney did yet didn't see the field much but were still integrated and helpful to team. Voigt had a good chance to play but there were no absolute guarantees and he winded up staring in his last season after seeing minimal time in his first four. If a player simply enjoys the comraderie and college life , has the means or at least gets some financial assistance or is seeking a higher degree then it makes sense but certainly a tough decision to make.

 

[Powellfan]

Envison Quin playing on 2nd line this year and Lauder having a role.

Can someone explain to me what exactly Lauder's role on the team was last year? It seemed he served as a designated clearing attackman. He would be subbed on when the opposing team cleared the ball and then once the ball was cleared back into the SU offensive zone, he would sub back out. I've never seen a player used that way. Was he supposed to be good on the fast break? Was it stick control? It always looked odd to me and I know he had at least one turnover in the clearing game. Is this how he'll be used again?

My understanding, at least from reading this board is that DiPietro, personally wanted to red-shirt to ensure more playing time, and it wasn't a subject that the coaches broached with him. No insider information, just going by what I read. So I think it would have to be the players idea to red-shirt, and have faith in himself to earn playing time the next year. Midfield is different than defense, there are six open spots and you can rotate players a lot more freely than a close d unit of three that hardly ever changes. If a midfielder were to red-shirt after their freshmen year, you'd effectively be saying there are six guys better than me, whereas a defender can say there are only three. Kind of hard to make an argument for yourself if you are the seventh best player at your position on the team. PLUS, for Quinn or Lauder, or anyone else not in that top six (and Quinn might be), only one spot opens up on the top two lines next year, so your pretty much in the same spot as you were entering this season.

 

[ivorytower]

Can someone explain to me what exactly Lauder's role on the team was last year? It seemed he served as a designated clearing attackman. He would be subbed on when the opposing team cleared the ball and then once the ball was cleared back into the SU offensive zone, he would sub back out. I've never seen a player used that way. Was he supposed to be good on the fast break? Was it stick control? It always looked odd to me and I know he had at least one turnover in the clearing game. Is this how he'll be used again?

My understanding, at least from reading this board is that DiPietro, personally wanted to red-shirt to ensure more playing time, and it wasn't a subject that the coaches broached with him. No insider information, just going by what I read. So I think it would have to be the players idea to red-shirt, and have faith in himself to earn playing time the next year. Midfield is different than defense, there are six open spots and you can rotate players a lot more freely than a close d unit of three that hardly ever changes. If a midfielder were to red-shirt after their freshmen year, you'd effectively be saying there are six guys better than me, whereas a defender can say there are only three. Kind of hard to make an argument for yourself if you are the seventh best player at your position on the team. PLUS, for Quinn or Lauder, or anyone else not in that top six (and Quinn might be), only one spot opens up on the top two lines next year, so your pretty much in the same spot as you were entering this season.

Yeh, not sure how to describe that lol, it was strange and rather ineffectual before discarded. Lauder has stick skills and has put on some needed weight, had a artistic goal in Denver scrimmage. Not sure what role this year if any given numbers, think he had a few short runs at dm last year though I may be mistaken on that b ut recall he was feisty mid on D in hs. Good to hear Aviles mentioned there because that unit could use reinforcements if Helmer and Murphy have truly moved off .

Quinn and Magnan iseemingly n line to join 2nd line but 3rd spot there may be more about complementary talent and fitting March's approach than pure individual talent.

 

[Powellfan]

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Quinn and Magnan iseemingly n line to join 2nd line but 3rd spot there may be more about complementary talent and fitting March's approach than pure individual talent.

I don't mean this as a slight towards you Ivory, I am legit wondering here ...

I see a lot of references to second and third lines for middies. How much run do we really expect these players to get. It's not like a ways back (i honestly dont know how far) where middies were expected to range up and down the field for large chunks of the game. It seems to me that most of these kids are highly specialized in their midfield assignments. How taxing is it for an offensive middie that it necessitates line (multiple line) rotation. We dont really rotate attackers? I know we need depth in case of injuries and things like that. Is having a "second line" more for continuity purposes.

I suppose this also goes to the broader issue of having such a large roster and such large recruiting classes.

 

[Powellfan]

I don't mean this as a slight towards you Ivory, I am legit wondering here ...

I see a lot of references to second and third lines for middies. How much run do we really expect these players to get. It's not like a ways back (i honestly dont know how far) where middies were expected to range up and down the field for large chunks of the game. It seems to me that most of these kids are highly specialized in their midfield assignments. How taxing is it for an offensive middie that it necessitates line (multiple line) rotation. We dont really rotate attackers? I know we need depth in case of injuries and things like that. Is having a "second line" more for continuity purposes.

I suppose this also goes to the broader issue of having such a large roster and such large recruiting classes.

Second line midfields are common place for most every team, if you don't use one, you'll see your main line tire out by the end of the game. Yes, the sport has become highly specialized with defensive midfielders, and FOGO's and long poles, but every Syracuse team I can remember watching has utilized two midfield lines. I would estimate they rotate back and forth throughout the game until the fourth quarter when the first line sees the majority of the time. I can remember some Duke teams that only used one midfield line, but if you are not using two lines, it's usually an indictment against the depth of your team, and is not considered a good thing.

Third midfield lines are often talked about but rarely utilized, since that means your top midfield line wouldn't see as much time. I think Denver ran one a few years ago, and Desko has tinkered with one a few times but he usually plays it only very minimally, or in blow outs.

 

[ohmilax34]

I don't mean this as a slight towards you Ivory, I am legit wondering here ...

I see a lot of references to second and third lines for middies. How much run do we really expect these players to get. It's not like a ways back (i honestly dont know how far) where middies were expected to range up and down the field for large chunks of the game. It seems to me that most of these kids are highly specialized in their midfield assignments. How taxing is it for an offensive middie that it necessitates line (multiple line) rotation. We dont really rotate attackers? I know we need depth in case of injuries and things like that. Is having a "second line" more for continuity purposes.

I suppose this also goes to the broader issue of having such a large roster and such large recruiting classes.

Good question. Syracuse is finding that they want to play a lot of SSDMs and LSMs. Those guys need to be fresh when they are on the field. Also, the shot clock is changing things for offense, but I don't think it's creating two-way middies. Teams may play more attackmen in 6v6 offense, since they need to create offense faster. I don't know if teams are going to be using their 2nd middie line any more or less than in the past. Forget about 3rd lines. Those are rarely used and almost entirely in blowouts. Syracuse may give a 3rd middie line 1 or 2 runs a game. We will probably see the Kims, P Fiorini, maybe a freshman, on a 3rd middie line. If Dordevic is a middie, then he's first line with Curry and Trimboli. That bumps Lipka and Buttermore to the 2s, and there is good competition for the other spot with Quinn, Magnan, the Kims, Fiorini, etc. That's a talented group and the coaches will give them plenty of runs. Also, don't be surprised if we see Magnan on EMO, since he's a lefty.

 

[ohmilax34]

It looks like Powell and I are on the same page, as per usual.

 

[4evaOrange]

and they compare hiltz to him? O man.

 

[ivorytower]

I don't mean this as a slight towards you Ivory, I am legit wondering here ...

I see a lot of references to second and third lines for middies. How much run do we really expect these players to get. It's not like a ways back (i honestly dont know how far) where middies were expected to range up and down the field for large chunks of the game. It seems to me that most of these kids are highly specialized in their midfield assignments. How taxing is it for an offensive middie that it necessitates line (multiple line) rotation. We dont really rotate attackers? I know we need depth in case of injuries and things like that. Is having a "second line" more for continuity purposes.

I suppose this also goes to the broader issue of having such a large roster and such large recruiting classes.

None taken and your points well taken. As Powell and Ohmi said, many teams run two mid lines if there is minimal drop off to best ensure fresh legs throughout especially in the 4q.
Im certainly guilty of mentioning too many candidates and projecting mf rotations that are lengthier than they likely will be..Reality is that we didn't play that many om's last year. Our first line and Buttermore played heavier minutes than previous year due to Dordevic absence and there was a drop-off beyond those four- the p/t invested in frosh Cook and to a lesser degree degree Seebold was necessary with an expected payoff this year . The offensive and transition abilities of Dearth and Kennedy were an extension of the mf that may have distorted my view of how many true om's were actually utilized.
Recognizing that, I do believe that our numbers can be advantaged. Exchanges on the fly are not always possible, some opponents ie UVA play fast and I still see gassed players at times on both sidelines that will affect player performance on either end.

Believe our athletic om could push pace more especially in open field and our 6th thru 8th mids on depth chart are talented enough to step in to afford rest when needed even if just for a few minutes. This is where I throw around the names of Quinn, Magnan, Kiim, Fiorini in. Hoping to get a good glimpse of some of these talents in some early season games that might afford some opportunity.

Post makes me refocus on likely numbers So here goes, listing primary rotation first..

attack 4/5
mid. 5/ 7
dm 3/4
lsm 2/3
d 3/5
g 1/2
fo 2/3



Really only be one spot open on second mf line. If Dami performs as 2nd or 3rd then problably not reall

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Powellfan]

Also, don't be surprised if we see Magnan on EMO, since he's a lefty.

We haven't discussed the man-up unit much this off-season. Does anyone remember who they used in the scrimmages this fall? Last year they used strictly the starting line-up in this role, but they've never done that before. I guess things get complicated since Dordevic is coming back - does he replace Lipka on the unit?

I'd say the guys who are definitely on the unit would be Rhefuss, Trimboli, Curry and Scanlan. That leaves two spots open, but if Scanlan presumably takes Solomon's spot on the unit, that means you need someone to replace Voigt (lefty) and fill the Lipka spot (righty). I believe both Dordevic and Lipka are rightys, so as Ohiomilax pointed out, you have a need for a lefty (Magnan and Seebold come to mind).

 

[DoctahLexus]

We haven't discussed the man-up unit much this off-season. Does anyone remember who they used in the scrimmages this fall? Last year they used strictly the starting line-up in this role, but they've never done that before. I guess things get complicated since Dordevic is coming back - does he replace Lipka on the unit?

I'd say the guys who are definitely on the unit would be Rhefuss, Trimboli, Curry and Scanlan. That leaves two spots open, but if Scanlan presumably takes Solomon's spot on the unit, that means you need someone to replace Voigt (lefty) and fill the Lipka spot (righty). I believe both Dordevic and Lipka are rightys, so as Ohiomilax pointed out, you have a need for a lefty (Magnan and Seebold come to mind).

Feel like there is a good chance Lipka gets back on the man up lineup due to the success of the unit last year. I know some people were saying he didn't actually do much on man up in terms of goals but I'm sure he made some key plays along the way. That being said it really seems like there has to be a spot for Buttermore. Nobody on the team can rip it from long range like he can and very few in the nation are able to do it as well as he can with both hands. Think we should just play him more in general this year. His stats rivaled Lipka's and he didn't get any points boost from being on man up.

Feel like its more likely between Buttermore and Lipka than Dordevic. He isn't especially elite on his outside shot, although it is certainly fast. I like both Buttermore and Lipka more as outside shooters. That still leaves a spot down low. Wonder who will join Rehfuss and Scanlan. Does a lethal shooter like Quinn get a shot?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Feel like there is a good chance Lipka gets back on the man up lineup due to the success of the unit last year. I know some people were saying he didn't actually do much on man up in terms of goals but I'm sure he made some key plays along the way. That being said it really seems like there has to be a spot for Buttermore. Nobody on the team can rip it from long range like he can and very few in the nation are able to do it as well as he can with both hands. Think we should just play him more in general this year. His stats rivaled Lipka's and he didn't get any points boost from being on man up.

Feel like its more likely between Buttermore and Lipka than Dordevic. He isn't especially elite on his outside shot, although it is certainly fast. I like both Buttermore and Lipka more as outside shooters. That still leaves a spot down low. Wonder who will join Rehfuss and Scanlan. Does a lethal shooter like Quinn get a shot?

Personally I would like to see a man up unit that includes Scanlan, Refhuss, Dordevic, Trimbo,, Buttermore and then whoever else the staff wants to plug in. I think those 5 have to be locks at this point.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Personally I would like to see a man up unit that includes Scanlan, Refhuss, Dordevic, Trimbo,, Buttermore and then whoever else the staff wants to plug in. I think those 5 have to be locks at this point.

Basically in agreement but less convinced that Dordevic is a definite lock. He is almost definitely our best dodger but not necessarily Mr. finesse/shooting accuracy. I suppose Curry and Lipka aren't either, but at least with them we have some proven results on man up. Any ideas on who would join Rehfuss and Scanlan down low? We don't have a definite middle guy like some man up sets do. Usually different guys just rotate in there for us from what I saw. Feel like Lipka has had some good success on more low angle shots down towards GLE. Hard to replace the off ball master Voigt though.

 

[Powellfan]

Basically in agreement but less convinced that Dordevic is a definite lock. He is almost definitely our best dodger but not necessarily Mr. finesse/shooting accuracy. I suppose Curry and Lipka aren't either, but at least with them we have some proven results on man up. Any ideas on who would join Rehfuss and Scanlan down low? We don't have a definite middle guy like some man up sets do. Usually different guys just rotate in there for us from what I saw. Feel like Lipka has had some good success on more low angle shots down towards GLE. Hard to replace the off ball master Voigt though.

Lipka did not score a man up goal last year, though I agree with Doctah, I still think he was a important cog for the unit. I think his skill set matches up better than Dordevic, but I wouldn't be shocked if Dordevic made it over him. Maybe for taking his starting spot, a trade-off could be for Lipka to stay on man-up?

As for down-low, I am a little stumped. In a lot of instances teams will use four attackmen on a man-up, but hardly ever do you see four or more midfielders. Maybe since the team is so fluid in terms of positions, it doesn't matter that there might be four or more middies on the unit? We've talked a lot about it but Curry and Dordevic could easily play attack, and Scanlan is a natural midfielder as well. But I don't know which of them I'd pick to be down low, other than Scanlan.

Seebold could fill the lefty spot but he's not established. Aburn and Donnely are considered finishers, but they're even less established than Seebold. I've long liked Quinn as a man-up specialist but as a righty he's in that Dordevic/Lipka group.

My best guess would be Scanlan, Rhefuss, Buttermore, Lipka, Trimboli and Curry. Or, to simplify things just keep the starting lineup and swap Lipka for Dordevic.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Basically in agreement but less convinced that Dordevic is a definite lock. He is almost definitely our best dodger but not necessarily Mr. finesse/shooting accuracy. I suppose Curry and Lipka aren't either, but at least with them we have some proven results on man up. Any ideas on who would join Rehfuss and Scanlan down low? We don't have a definite middle guy like some man up sets do. Usually different guys just rotate in there for us from what I saw. Feel like Lipka has had some good success on more low angle shots down towards GLE. Hard to replace the off ball master Voigt though.

I like Dordevic as a lock because out of that group only Buttermore is really a long range shooter who can hit from the outside which SU's man up needs to free the inside guys. Trimbo is a good shooter but he is more of a mid range guy, Dordevic can really crank it when need be. Rehfuss and Scanlan I think will play down low with Trimbo playing that middle spot. The sixth spot is a bit of a question mark. Does SU want to go strictly with a finisher or a mid range type guy like Lipka. I can make a case for a whole bunch of players to be honest. Desko has a history of going with a bench guy for that last spot that surprises although the last 5 or so years he hasn't really done that. If you put a gun to my head I would say its probably Lipka or Curry but I would rather see someone else to be honest. A guy like Aburn is an interesting choice I think or even a long shot type like Aviles who could play that middle type of role like Timboli.

 

[ohmilax34]

I forgot about Buttermore being a lefty. Plenty of lefty options with him, Rehfuss and Magnan. If two of them play emo, then 4 righty spots go to Scanlan, trimboli, curry and probably dordevic

 

[DoctahLexus]

I forgot about Buttermore being a lefty. Plenty of lefty options with him, Rehfuss and Magnan. If two of them play emo, then 4 righty spots go to Scanlan, trimboli, curry and probably dordevic

Honestly I can barely tell what hand Buttermore is. He has ripped corners with every single type of release with both hands. Very impressive especially these days with everyone trying to act as Canadian (one handed) as possible.

 

[sholokov2]

I don't mean this as a slight towards you Ivory, I am legit wondering here ...

I see a lot of references to second and third lines for middies. How much run do we really expect these players to get. It's not like a ways back (i honestly dont know how far) where middies were expected to range up and down the field for large chunks of the game. It seems to me that most of these kids are highly specialized in their midfield assignments. How taxing is it for an offensive middie that it necessitates line (multiple line) rotation. We dont really rotate attackers? I know we need depth in case of injuries and things like that. Is having a "second line" more for continuity purposes.

I suppose this also goes to the broader issue of having such a large roster and such large recruiting classes.

Ever run at top speed down and back twice and then play a minute of defense? Even well conditioned players need a break. think hockey. I did not play lacrosse in college, but I did play hockey. Two minutes on the ice is a marathon. Never saw an SU team that did not play two lines.

 

[Powellfan]

 

[ohmilax34]

Is there anything in the video that hasn't been covered here many times?

 

[Powellfan]

 

[Powellfan]