2020-21 ny mets thread

[SWC75]

If one wants to assess if a pitcher is good and compare him to others, you should look at multiple indicators, not just the score board. I would hope you agree with that.

Certainly but you look at stats in relation to each other, not to edit some of them out. The game is won and lost on the bottom line, so that's got to be paramount. When a pitcher gives up a home run that should have come in the 6th inning rather than the 5th, that's just a bad pitch. it wasn't created by a fielding error.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Certainly but you look at stats in relation to each other, not to edit some of them out. The game is won and lost on the bottom line, so that's got to be paramount. When a pitcher gives up a home run that should have come in the 6th inning rather than the 5th, that's just a bad pitch. it wasn't created by a fielding error.

He might not have thrown that pitch in the 6th inning.

 

[kirbivore]

Mets' offensive ineptitude paid off handsomely with Red Sox +220 tonight.

 

[SWC75]

He might not have thrown that pitch in the 6th inning.

So our stats are based on 'might not have"?

 

[donniesyracuse]

So our stats are based on 'might not have"?

We know for sure that the at-bat wouldn’t have happened if the out was made.

 

[SWC75]

We know for sure that the at-bat wouldn’t have happened if the out was made.

It would have happened in the next inning and the result would have been 'earned'. It's always the pitcher's job to prevent hits and runs, even if there's been an error behind him.

 

[Briancuse]

Mets need to start hitting degrom 3rd. It's our only chance no one else can get a hit to save their lives.

 

[SWC75]

Interesting article in today's Athletic about the Met's hitting woes:

What's gone wrong for Francisco Lindor and the Mets offense? Let's explore a few issues in depth

The Mets are 7-1 when they score four runs or more; they’re 2-9 when they don’t get there.

theathletic.com

My favorite lines:

"Pregame Wednesday, Lindor said of the booing, “It’s interesting and it’s funny and it sucks,” which could serve as the tagline for far too many things these days. “It doesn’t feel right, for sure."

Chili Davis "said it was “a bat-path issue” that was preventing Lindor from getting good wood on the ball. Lindor Wednesday said he just wasn’t getting the barrel where it needed to be." No kidding.

His solution:

"Davis and Lindor worked on a tunnel drill that he had used in Cleveland. The name is apt: The hitter tries to hit the ball — first off a tee, then off soft toss — back up the middle through a tunnel."

You can't do that with an uppercut swing, which the analytics supposedly favor.

I hope this is irrelevant but is anybody having flashbacks to the last mid-infield superstar we got from Cleveland, Roberto Alomar?

 

[donniesyracuse]

It would have happened in the next inning and the result would have been 'earned'.

You don't know that. The circumstances would be different.

 

[sutomcat]

Interesting article in today's Athletic about the Met's hitting woes:

What's gone wrong for Francisco Lindor and the Mets offense? Let's explore a few issues in depth

The Mets are 7-1 when they score four runs or more; they’re 2-9 when they don’t get there.

theathletic.com

My favorite lines:

"Pregame Wednesday, Lindor said of the booing, “It’s interesting and it’s funny and it sucks,” which could serve as the tagline for far too many things these days. “It doesn’t feel right, for sure."

Chili Davis "said it was “a bat-path issue” that was preventing Lindor from getting good wood on the ball. Lindor Wednesday said he just wasn’t getting the barrel where it needed to be." No kidding.

His solution:

"Davis and Lindor worked on a tunnel drill that he had used in Cleveland. The name is apt: The hitter tries to hit the ball — first off a tee, then off soft toss — back up the middle through a tunnel."

You can't do that with an uppercut swing, which the analytics supposedly favor.

I hope this is irrelevant but is anybody having flashbacks to the last mid-infield superstar we got from Cleveland, Roberto Alomar?

Or Carlos Baerga.

Or Jim Fregosi.

It is early, and Lindor will probably make adjustments and be fine. But these American League middle infield imports have not worked out great in the past. A lot of disappointments and under achieving to be sure.

 

[Orangezoo]

Or Carlos Baerga.

Or Jim Fregosi.

It is early, and Lindor will probably make adjustments and be fine. But these American League middle infield imports have not worked out great in the past. A lot of disappointments and under achieving to be sure.

Unfortunately it's been pretty much the entire lineup beyond Nimmo but your 300 million dollar man should be a lot better.

 

[SWC75]

You don't know that. The circumstances would be different.

Which doesn't mean that the pitcher wouldn't have thrown the same pitch with the same result. It doesn't justify having separate categories of stats: one earned, one not. Again, it's a 162 game season, not a 16 game season. Football doesn't discredit a touchdown pass if a defender falls down. Why should baseball worry about these things?

 

[SWC75]

Or Carlos Baerga.

Or Jim Fregosi.

It is early, and Lindor will probably make adjustments and be fine. But these American League middle infield imports have not worked out great in the past. A lot of disappointments and under achieving to be sure.

One difference is age: Alomar was 34. Branch Rickey was laughing in his grave:
Roberto Alomar Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Baerga was just 27 but was traded late in the year when he'd already begun to decline. I assume injuries were an issue:
Carlos Baerga Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Wikipedia mentions knee problems:
Carlos Baerga - Wikipedia

Fregosi was damaged goods but the Mets didn't know it yet, although they should have from his stats:
Jim Fregosi Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Jim Fregosi - Wikipedia

 

[donniesyracuse]

Which doesn't mean that the pitcher wouldn't have thrown the same pitch with the same result. It doesn't justify having separate categories of stats: one earned, one not. Again, it's a 162 game season, not a 16 game season. Football doesn't discredit a touchdown pass if a defender falls down. Why should baseball worry about these things?

Nobody needs justification to create or look at a stat. Why would you advocate for less information?

I agree that over the long term there is not a big difference between "earned-runs" and "runs." For most pitchers in a full-season it's usually a difference between four and nine.

If one is just looking at a box score, having a column for earned runs helps tell the story of the game. If there are fewer "earned runs" than "runs," we know that the errors were consequential and hindered the pitcher's ability to prevent runs.

 

[SWC75]

Nobody needs justification to create or look at a stat. Why would you advocate for less information?

I agree that over the long term there is not a big difference between "earned-runs" and "runs." For most pitchers in a full-season it's usually a difference between four and nine.

If one is just looking at a box score, having a column for earned runs helps tell the story of the game. If there are fewer "earned runs" than "runs," we know that the errors were consequential and hindered the pitcher's ability to prevent runs.

Still, the pitcher's job doesn't change when there is an error: he's got to try and prevent the other team from scoring. A gopher ball after an error is just as damaging as a gopher ball after a great defensive play, probably more so. Surely that's part of the "story of the game".

 

[donniesyracuse]

Still, the pitcher's job doesn't change when there is an error: he's got to try and prevent the other team from scoring. A gopher ball after an error is just as damaging as a gopher ball after a great defensive play, probably more so. Surely that's part of the "story of the game".

Yes, it counts as a “run.”

 

[OrangeFoo]

One difference is age: Alomar was 34. Branch Rickey was laughing in his grave:
Roberto Alomar Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Baerga was just 27 but was traded late in the year when he'd already begun to decline. I assume injuries were an issue:
Carlos Baerga Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Wikipedia mentions knee problems:
Carlos Baerga - Wikipedia

Fregosi was damaged goods but the Mets didn't know it yet, although they should have from his stats:
Jim Fregosi Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Jim Fregosi - Wikipedia

Interestingly enough Lindor had a down year last year as well. Everyone blamed it on the pandemic... One year can be a one off, but two years makes a trend. Mets were in a no win... if they didn’t sign Lindor to an extension their fans were waiting to slaughter them as same old Mets. Let’s hope he turns it around, he’s fun to watch and a good defender.

My Too early to draw conclusions conclusions after a month: let Conforto walk, move Nimmo to the corner, sign a true CF, trade one of dom and Pete if there is no DH next year, trade Davis and either sign bryant or play Guillerme there.

Pitching is better then I expected.

 

[OrangeDW]

Theyre booing Lindor? Lol, sports fan meatheads are just the worst sometimes.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Theyre booing Lindor? Lol, sports fan meatheads are just the worst sometimes.

I can think of a poster who would be leading the chorus if he was a Met fan.

 

[upperdeck]

Lindor looks lost.. but at some point Lindor/smith/Mcneil cant all be hitting .125.. staying at .500 with no one hitting is key.. dont build the big hole again..

 

[SWC75]

I don't recall winning a game that way - an apparent game typing home run is ruled a double because it hit the fence, rather than going over it. It's a weird feeling but I'll take it.

If Diaz had gotten the previous guy out to end it, i was going to post that he finally was turning into the closer we thought we'd traded for.

 

[bevosu]

One difference is age: Alomar was 34. Branch Rickey was laughing in his grave:
Roberto Alomar Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Baerga was just 27 but was traded late in the year when he'd already begun to decline. I assume injuries were an issue:
Carlos Baerga Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Wikipedia mentions knee problems:
Carlos Baerga - Wikipedia

Fregosi was damaged goods but the Mets didn't know it yet, although they should have from his stats:
Jim Fregosi Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Jim Fregosi - Wikipedia

Lindor's offensive stats have been trending down for the past three years. He was great his first four years. I wonder?

Francisco Lindor Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[donniesyracuse]

Lindor's offensive stats have been trending down for the past three years. He was great his first four years. I wonder?

Francisco Lindor Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

I would not wonder too hard. 2018 was his best his offensive season. It's not unreasonable for his next season to be down from that, but it was comparable to other seasons in his career. 2020 was just an odd year that should probably be ignored.

His career trends are not out-of-line with other elite players. Mike Trout just had his best Month since 2015.

Fortunately, Lindor's issues do not appear to be physical. His swing mechanics are reportedly messed-up. I am sure he will get straightened-out. If I were a Met fan, I would be patient and enjoy the other things he does well in the mean-time. He is an elite defensive shortstop.

 

[sutomcat]

That was a great win last night.

I dislike the Phillies. Alvarado is easy to hate. Good to see him get humbled so quickly.

Prospective parents, please take note. This is what happens when you name your son Bryce or Rhys.

Will never forgive Hopkins for that ridiculous home run trot from 2019 (longest since at least 2010).


Glad his bad defense, laziness and stupidity gave the Mets this game. Couldn't happen to a better person.

 

[upperdeck]

hopefull Diaz back issue is just a one time thing.. should have taken him out after 1 batter the way he looked.