2020 Transfer Thread | Page 21 | Syracusefan.com

2020 Transfer Thread

redhead091 said:
they got invited bc you said roster at Cuse was 60 people and I stated that shouldn't be an issue as other prevalent programs have similar roster sizes and aren't seeing the # of transfers or decommits as Syracuse is, hence Maryland and Hopkins...was addressing YOUR comment.

Why wouldn't you be curious as to an underlying issue that is impacting the program?? We now have more transfers in the portal than any other program coupled with the decommits we've seen over the past couple seasons. NO one saw the Lipka one coming and I agree with Jeremy that it's not a huge loss I just don't understand why no other program sees the bleeding with players that Syracuse does.
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Let me try and clarify a few things on this.

I wouldn't try and correlate the issues we had with decommits in the fall of 2018 with transfers now. Two completely separate issues that in my opinion are in no way related. Of course it was beyond frustrating but if you look at who we ended up with him I think the staff did a pretty good job.

Regarding the issues of transfers, I would keep this in mind. Up until last year SU had done remarkably well with transfers out. Yes there was Maltz and Wisnauskas but overall few people left despite a very high roster. With a roster in the high 50's to low 60's some significant attrition was inevitable as there was no way to make everyone happy, Also some players simply see the writing on the wall. Nelson and Donnelly liked SU but with every attackmen returning plus the 4th guy plus Hiltz and Birtwhistle, it was clear the chances of either seeing PT barring a rash of injuries was slim to none. Fernandez and Lipka were both surprising but again sometimes its just not a good fit. Look at Scanlan, many Loyola fans were shocked when he left, ditto Maryland when Cannizarro took off for Denver. It unfortunately does happen. SU is also the victim of its own success. When you have a first line midfield that is that good its hard to get PT when you have a dozen plus midfielders overall on the roster. Nelson is also a guy who would have graduated without the extra year and Strang would probably be starting here so in a normally year those two aren't in the portal.

As to your other questions I would again keep a few things in mind. Duke has been a bit of an outlier when it comes to transfers. They take in one or two a year and don't lose to many. That is normally by design. Danowski usually likes to have a moderate size roster while Maryland/SU and a few others will have the largest ones. Also give Danowski credit he gets guys to take reduced roles on his team and to stick it out. Now with all the moves they have made Duke's roster has become bloated. It may not happen this off-season but over the next 1-2 years I would suspect you will see a handful of guys transfer out, there simply isn't going to be enough PT for everyone. You also mentioned UVA, again in keep mind sometimes guys leave and you don't hear about. I believe from the spring to fall this past season UVA had one guy stop playing due to injury and another left the team, however, unless your following them closely you would easily miss that. Also, going into next fall Hop right now is slated to have 64 kids on their roster, that again is not sustainable and they will see several transfer out whether its the summer of 2021 or 2022.

Now I will certainly say that from the start of fall 2019 to now there has been a good amount of attrition from the program. Is it alarming, no I don't think so but it is a little concerning and something to keep an eye on. Just about every major program besides Duke and Denver has had multiple people in the portal, even UVA had 1 and Maryland had 3 until one pulled his name out. I think this year was just an outlier from the normal process. If SU has 5+ guys in their next year then I think its time to maybe reassess.
 
OrangeXtreme said:
Other than Fernandez and Lipka, did we lose anyone who even saw the field much? Nelson wasn't going to play except in mop up time, Strang's fate was sealed when Porter decided to return, that leaves the Kims and Donnelly who certainly weren't going to start in 2021. Should we have benched Trim, Dordy and Curry just to keep the 4th and 5th mids happy?

Why wouldn't you transfer to a smaller program where you can pay half as much tuition and play twice as much.
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i agree with all the above but how come you dont see other programs that are loaded with talent that have logjams eg duke, Maryland, uva etc see the same attrition that syracuse does? Thats the question im trying to get an answer too. The kims, Donnelly werent goin to see the field but there are other more highly rated recruits at just as expensive universities that arent jumping.

i dont think duke or unc have one player in the portal and many programs havent seen the decommits we have.

Yes we’ve brought in our fair share of impactful transfers eg galasso, Randy staats, mariano, ben williams etc.

Again just tryin to get a feel for if there are any other underlying issues outside of roster size.

Lets be honest if you go by player Rankings our 2021 class isnt great and probably wont be a top 10 class even though i think we have some under the radar recruits in that class.
 
Of the Top 15 Underclassmen in the transfer portal, Syracuse had 2, Maryland had 2 (Desantis and Pallonetti), Albany had 2, Hop had 1, and Virginia had 1.

Happens to everyone.

Especially this year. For every 5th year Senior who decided to return, there's less playing time for someone else.
 
redhead091 said:
I agree 100% but what concerns me is why does Syracuse always have all these transfers?? No other school, unless I'm mistaken, have the # of transfers Cuse does. There are plenty of other rosters in country that have a ton of talent and those schools aren't seeing the # of transfers or decommits for that matter. Just look at the rosters of UVA and Duke. They have just as much talent as Cuse and they're not dealing with the glut of transfers out and decommits Syracuse has dealt with over the past few seasons.

Is there a systemic problem with Syracuse?? Maybe I'm an alarmist but this trend is worrisome.
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I've been told that at least one or two of these recent transfers out are related to the coaching staff. Desko is not going to be your best friend. He is fairly aloof. He generally doesn't form close relationships with his players. Some guys prefer a different dynamic. He's had a lot of success doing it his way. But it's not a perfect fit for every kid. And, yes, it goes without saying that there are too many kids on the roster, though Syracuse is not the only program with that issue. Central New York can be a difficult place to be if you're not getting playing time or jibing with your coaching staff.

JeremyCuse said:
Regarding the issues of transfers, I would keep this in mind. Up until last year SU had done remarkably well with transfers out. Yes there was Maltz and Wisnauskas but overall few people left despite a very high roster.
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Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
 
laxobserver said:
I've been told that at least one or two of these recent transfers out are related to the coaching staff. Desko is not going to be your best friend. He is fairly aloof. He generally doesn't form close relationships with his players. Some guys prefer a different dynamic. He's had a lot of success doing it his way. But it's not a perfect fit for every kid. And, yes, it goes without saying that there are too many kids on the roster, though Syracuse is not the only program with that issue. Central New York can be a difficult place to be if you're not getting playing time or jibing with your coaching staff.



Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
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Ya those two hurt for sure but they happen to pretty much every school unfortunately. If you go back the last 5 or 7 years and work your way back, SU lost very few impact players to transfer but brought in a bunch. Wisnauskas hurts because we had a feeling he was going to be a good one. Same way Holy Cross felt about Ben Williams, Denver with Bomberry, Umass with Mariano, Loyola with Scanlan etc.
 
How many lockers are in the locker room? Serious question, might we see cuts this offseason?

I think SU takes a “see what sticks” approach to recruiting, and therefor takes a lot of guys, hoping that the cream will rise to the top. They aren’t going to get the same kids as Duke to be honest, so they have to cast a wider net. Sometimes they hit (Salcido, Rhefuss) and sometimes they miss. They also draw from a wider cohort of players, transfers, Native players, legacy type players. Duke, UVA, JHU, etc fight over the IL top 100 but SU has to be more creative. With the way the game has grown ( and section 3 has fallen off), they can’t rely on the same areas to draw from.

This also might sound overly simplistic but I think Desko really wants kids who want to be at Syracuse. If you show an inkling of thinking pastures are greener somewhere else, I don’t think Desko will beg and plead for you to stay like some other coaches might. This is just a guess.
 
laxobserver said:
I've been told that at least one or two of these recent transfers out are related to the coaching staff. Desko is not going to be your best friend. He is fairly aloof. He generally doesn't form close relationships with his players. Some guys prefer a different dynamic. He's had a lot of success doing it his way. But it's not a perfect fit for every kid. And, yes, it goes without saying that there are too many kids on the roster, though Syracuse is not the only program with that issue. Central New York can be a difficult place to be if you're not getting playing time or jibing with your coaching staff.



Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
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I usually don’t put my two cents in, but I don’t think it’s necessary for a coach to be a friend. And yes, some players want their coach to build them up and be there for them. Am I saying that Desko is being aloof to player? No, because I don’t personally know. I don’t know if anyone has been watching the MJ documentar, but on last nights episode they addressed how MJ was hard on everyone and sometimes seemed more of a bully then a friend, but nevertheless they improved from his criticism. Now I’m not saying that Desko and MJ are the same person, but you will get more results out of people if you stick to the goal, which is a national championship.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Let me try and clarify a few things on this.

I wouldn't try and correlate the issues we had with decommits in the fall of 2018 with transfers now.
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BTW I don't see this happening again (decommits like fall 2018) with Pat March here. Also, regarding any transfers this year, this is certainly not a typical off-season with so many players gaining an additional year of eligibility.
 
The PT last year for the 2nd line was the worst I’ve seen it in awhile. It makes sense right, why not trot out that first line every chance you get. Still felt bad for that second line. Usually your second line is made up of young players or seniors getting their first PT. Lipka played more in 2019 even after he was demoted to 2nd line than in 2020. The right choice for him. I’d rather see the 2nd line be all younger players so they stop transferring off. Now Magnan, perhaps Fiorini, or maybe
Hiltz slots into that spot. They would produce around the same and have more years of eligibility. This seems like a win for the young man and for Cuse. Best of luck.
 
Orangelax said:
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Not sure if this isn't some random guy on twitter making things up, though Kirwan posted something cryptic on twitter of a Rhino charging, which might indicate something. Would sting since Bertrand is local, but he makes a lot of sense for UVA given that they lost Kraus. Bit of a blow I would imagine for former SU recruit Russell Maher, a fellow lefty.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Let me try and clarify a few things on this.

I wouldn't try and correlate the issues we had with decommits in the fall of 2018 with transfers now. Two completely separate issues that in my opinion are in no way related. Of course it was beyond frustrating but if you look at who we ended up with him I think the staff did a pretty good job.

Regarding the issues of transfers, I would keep this in mind. Up until last year SU had done remarkably well with transfers out. Yes there was Maltz and Wisnauskas but overall few people left despite a very high roster. With a roster in the high 50's to low 60's some significant attrition was inevitable as there was no way to make everyone happy, Also some players simply see the writing on the wall. Nelson and Donnelly liked SU but with every attackmen returning plus the 4th guy plus Hiltz and Birtwhistle, it was clear the chances of either seeing PT barring a rash of injuries was slim to none. Fernandez and Lipka were both surprising but again sometimes its just not a good fit. Look at Scanlan, many Loyola fans were shocked when he left, ditto Maryland when Cannizarro took off for Denver. It unfortunately does happen. SU is also the victim of its own success. When you have a first line midfield that is that good its hard to get PT when you have a dozen plus midfielders overall on the roster. Nelson is also a guy who would have graduated without the extra year and Strang would probably be starting here so in a normally year those two aren't in the portal.

As to your other questions I would again keep a few things in mind. Duke has been a bit of an outlier when it comes to transfers. They take in one or two a year and don't lose to many. That is normally by design. Danowski usually likes to have a moderate size roster while Maryland/SU and a few others will have the largest ones. Also give Danowski credit he gets guys to take reduced roles on his team and to stick it out. Now with all the moves they have made Duke's roster has become bloated. It may not happen this off-season but over the next 1-2 years I would suspect you will see a handful of guys transfer out, there simply isn't going to be enough PT for everyone. You also mentioned UVA, again in keep mind sometimes guys leave and you don't hear about. I believe from the spring to fall this past season UVA had one guy stop playing due to injury and another left the team, however, unless your following them closely you would easily miss that. Also, going into next fall Hop right now is slated to have 64 kids on their roster, that again is not sustainable and they will see several transfer out whether its the summer of 2021 or 2022.

Now I will certainly say that from the start of fall 2019 to now there has been a good amount of attrition from the program. Is it alarming, no I don't think so but it is a little concerning and something to keep an eye on. Just about every major program besides Duke and Denver has had multiple people in the portal, even UVA had 1 and Maryland had 3 until one pulled his name out. I think this year was just an outlier from the normal process. If SU has 5+ guys in their next year then I think its time to maybe reassess.
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Thanks for the response and feedback. Question, do you now see an opening for us to bring in an offensive transfer with Lipka?

Maybe Bertrand or Sundown to run out of the midfield? Based on a post here it sounds like Bertrand heading to UVA, ugh, but maybe Cuse can still pull-in Sundown?
 
Man if UVA really does land Bertrand, they'd practically be begging the Shellenberger kid to transfer. First they redshirted him (a huge mistake in my opinion—similar to the one Desko made with Wisnauskas) and then the second it looks like there might be one opening at attack, they go and get a transfer? We know Moore and Laviano are going to start on attack, Cormier's natural position is attack, they also have McIntosh from Salisbury coming in next year. If I'm Shellenberger I'd be starting to wonder if this is how the #1 recruit in the country is normally treated. It's not like they were extraordinary on offense in 2020. They definitely could have used him.

CuSeLaX said:
I’d rather see the 2nd line be all younger players so they stop transferring off. Now Magnan, perhaps Fiorini, or maybe Hiltz slots into that spot.
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Hiltz should start on attack immediately and don't look back. He's legit. Hiltz-Scanlan-Rehfuss and would probably move Cook back to coming out of the box for a year till after Rehfuss leaves.
 
laxobserver said:
Man if UVA really does land Bertrand, they'd practically be begging the Shellenberger kid to transfer. First they redshirted him (a huge mistake in my opinion—similar to the one Desko made with Wisnauskas) and then the second it looks like there might be one opening at attack, they go and get a transfer? We know Moore and Laviano are going to start on attack, Cormier's natural position is attack, they also have McIntosh from Salisbury coming in next year. If I'm Shellenberger I'd be starting to wonder if this is how the #1 recruit in the country is normally treated. It's not like they were extraordinary on offense in 2020. They definitely could have used him.

Hiltz should start on attack immediately and don't look back. He's legit. Hiltz-Scanlan-Rehfuss and would probably move Cook back to coming out of the box for a year till after Rehfuss leaves.
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I think Shellenberger is stuck because he is right handed. Most attack units like to utilize two right handed players and a lefty. Ohiomilax is much better at keeping track of who is lefty/righty and the importance of it all, but with UVA right now they have two players who are righties in Moore and Laviano and now have an opening for lefty. Hence they either move down Cormier, move in a frosh, or take a transfer. UVA I think did famously play three righties with Glading, Billings and Stanwick, but it doesn't happen often.

My guess is that Shellenberger didn't think Laviano and Moore would be taking up space on the attack unit at this point when he committed (Moore originally was a midfielder). But I have to think he's contemplating about transferring, I thought I heard he was really uncomfortable at midfield, but even by taking a redshirt, he'd still be behind Moore and Laviano in 21, and now with the extra year, he might be behind them again in '22.
 
redhead091 said:
Thanks for the response and feedback. Question, do you now see an opening for us to bring in an offensive transfer with Lipka?

Maybe Bertrand or Sundown to run out of the midfield? Based on a post here it sounds like Bertrand heading to UVA, ugh, but maybe Cuse can still pull-in Sundown?
Expand...

Its possible, however, Bertrand is a pure attackmen and I don't see any scenario where he goes to a school to play middie. He likes where he is and was considered a favorite to return back to Merrimack so it would take a good fit to get him to leave. Sundown can play both spots (I believe) but again your talking about a numbers game. Is he going to be OK running on the second mid line or battling about 5 guys to grab some time at attack? He would have to be OK with playing a reduced role here and possibly moving around as needed. Tough to do for a guy used to being an alpha male.
 
laxobserver said:
Man if UVA really does land Bertrand, they'd practically be begging the Shellenberger kid to transfer. First they redshirted him (a huge mistake in my opinion—similar to the one Desko made with Wisnauskas) and then the second it looks like there might be one opening at attack, they go and get a transfer? We know Moore and Laviano are going to start on attack, Cormier's natural position is attack, they also have McIntosh from Salisbury coming in next year. If I'm Shellenberger I'd be starting to wonder if this is how the #1 recruit in the country is normally treated. It's not like they were extraordinary on offense in 2020. They definitely could have used him.



Hiltz should start on attack immediately and don't look back. He's legit. Hiltz-Scanlan-Rehfuss and would probably move Cook back to coming out of the box for a year till after Rehfuss leaves.
Expand...

Not sure Bertrand makes a lot of sense for UVA. Even with Kraus leaving they have plenty of attack options. To me if anything they need midfield help especially if Aitken does not return. This doesn't seem like a great fit unless they have some sort of plan to play Bertrand at midfield which I can't see.
 
Like your post lax observer but couldn't they just rotate four attackman. Not keen on Cook coming out of box.

Seebold should be candidate for second line
 
Powellfan said:
I think Shellenberger is stuck because he is right handed. Most attack units like to utilize two right handed players and a lefty. Ohiomilax is much better at keeping track of who is lefty/righty and the importance of it all, but with UVA right now they have two players who are righties in Moore and Laviano and now have an opening for lefty. Hence they either move down Cormier, move in a frosh, or take a transfer. UVA I think did famously play three righties with Glading, Billings and Stanwick, but it doesn't happen often.

My guess is that Shellenberger didn't think Laviano and Moore would be taking up space on the attack unit at this point when he committed (Moore originally was a midfielder). But I have to think he's contemplating about transferring, I thought I heard he was really uncomfortable at midfield, but even by taking a redshirt, he'd still be behind Moore and Laviano in 21, and now with the extra year, he might be behind them again in '22.
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Agreed on all your points. I guess UVA could in theory move Moore back to midfield but that would seem to be weakening the attack unit even if they brought in Bertrand and got Shellenberger on the field. Thats why to me the Bertrand thing seems counterproductive unless UVA thinks Shellenberger isn't going to live up to the ranking which is always possible as well.
 
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