2021 Fall Camp Starts Friday August 6th | Page 27 | Syracusefan.com

2021 Fall Camp Starts Friday August 6th

Chip said:
And the problem with the first one is that transfers play everywhere right away. If they are a better fit, you simplify early on.

Our offense sure doesn’t look very complex on the field. Shrader was here for the spring and all of fall. But magically when we start the difficult part of the schedule, he’ll be ready.
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I don't think our offense is nearly as complex as some of our players have made it look in recent years. Opposing D coordinators would probably agree. I'm sure there's complexity in the play book if we can get a few bread and butter plays reasonably dialed in though. If we can't and go playground football on offense though Shrader has to be the guy
 
ImperialOrange said:
I don't think our offense is nearly as complex as some of our players have made it look in recent years. Opposing D coordinators would probably agree. I'm sure there's complexity in the play book if we can get a few bread and butter plays reasonably dialed in though. If we can't and go playground football on offense though Shrader has to be the guy
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I think it’s fairly simple (if x lines up here, run y) and tempo made it tough at times for defenders to get in place. System got figured out - defenses got better (this is what happens). Can Dino and Gilbert evolve the concepts and be effective? Last year wasn’t helpful due to no real camp, OL issues, etc.

Dino has been around a long time. I think we see an evolved version - and the OL and run game looks better.
 
TheCusian said:
I think it’s fairly simple (if x lines up here, run y) and tempo made it tough at times for defenders to get in place. System got figured out - defenses got better (this is what happens). Can Dino and Gilbert evolve the concepts and be effective? Last year wasn’t helpful due to no real camp, OL issues, etc.

Dino has been around a long time. I think we see an evolved version - and the OL and run game looks better.
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I hope you're right and think you will be. Tough to expand an offense when every second down play call is 8-20 yards to the sticks depending on whom, and how poorly first down failed. If we can at least pop 3-5 yards on first down and keep laundry off the field tempo again becomes a weapon. If not it's hurry to the line and then look to the sideline like prairie dogs for 15 seconds.
 
ImperialOrange said:
I don't think our offense is nearly as complex as some of our players have made it look in recent years. Opposing D coordinators would probably agree. I'm sure there's complexity in the play book if we can get a few bread and butter plays reasonably dialed in though. If we can't and go playground football on offense though Shrader has to be the guy
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Still say it's up to the QB to read the defense, and if the play called is going to be blown up run something else. Eric had that ability, and TD hasn't shown any indication he can do that.
If he can't then we need to find someone who can. This isn't the Big 12 where no-one cares about defense. There are a lot of good defenses in this league. If your QB can't adapt your offense is toast. That's what we have had for 2 years.
 
baggerbob said:
Still say it's up to the QB to read the defense, and if the play called is going to be blown up run something else. Eric had that ability, and TD hasn't shown any indication he can do that.
If he can't then we need to find someone who can. This isn't the Big 12 where no-one cares about defense. There are a lot of good defenses in this league. If your QB can't adapt your offense is toast. That's what we have had for 2 years.
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The Big 12 had an innovative defensive system come in and disrupt the offense in Iowa State. They can play some D. The systems and concepts on O got picked up by more and more teams, and now defense caught up a bit.

I think just focusing on what Eric could do and what TD can’t do is doing a disservice to the other things that shifted since then (CFB evolving and our OL blowing chunks). Yes, TD isn’t as instinctual at running and isn’t where Eric left off. But he can get better at all that via reps.

And if he can’t we’re still in good shape. QB is not a position I’m worried about
 
baggerbob said:
Still say it's up to the QB to read the defense, and if the play called is going to be blown up run something else. Eric had that ability, and TD hasn't shown any indication he can do that.
If he can't then we need to find someone who can. This isn't the Big 12 where no-one cares about defense. There are a lot of good defenses in this league. If your QB can't adapt your offense is toast. That's what we have had for 2 years.
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You're not wrong but ED is the exception not the rule. Most QBs can't do much in any offense if the defense is on them in 3 seconds or less. DMac5 was out best prior and even he had more time than Tommy did last season. Honestly how TD didn't throw more INTs for self preservation is astonishing.
 
ImperialOrange said:
You're not wrong but ED is the exception not the rule. Most QBs can't do much in any offense if the defense is on them in 3 seconds or less. DMac5 was out best prior and even he had more time than Tommy did last season. Honestly how TD didn't throw more INTs for self preservation is astonishing.
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There are many college QBs, every season, who can counter a pass rush by quickly finding an alternate receiver, by rolling away and making plays, or by being part of the run game to keep defenses off-balance.
Dungey could do these things - particularly by always being a threat to run. Helped the OL look good.
‘Open question with TD - have to see when the real action starts. It isn’t only whether the OL has improved.
 
SoBristol said:
There are many college QBs, every season, who can counter a pass rush by quickly finding an alternate receiver, by rolling away and making plays, or by being part of the run game to keep defenses off-balance.
Dungey could do these things - particularly by always being a threat to run. Helped the OL look good.
‘Open question with TD - have to see when the real action starts. It isn’t only whether the OL has improved.
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I think there are things a QB can do to mitigate pressure. ED had a lot of those tools. His first instinct was to run, Tommy’s is to hold the ball and wait for a WR to emerge.

But I think some here think the OL in 2016-2018 was the same as the OL in 2019-2020 and we are comparing the QBs from an equal vantage point. I disagree with that take
 
TD seems like the QB Dino has wanted to succeed since he came on campus. Dino seems stubborn in some things and I wonder how stubborn he will be if TD flounders. IF we aren't running the ball well I don't think either QB will prosper, we just need to find one who doesn't hurt us or hurts us the least with dumb sacks, picks, etc.
 
TheCusian said:
I think there are things a QB can do to mitigate pressure. ED had a lot of those tools. His first instinct was to run, Tommy’s is to hold the ball and wait for a WR to emerge.

But I think some here think the OL in 2016-2018 was the same as the OL in 2019-2020 and we are comparing the QBs from an equal vantage point. I disagree with that take
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Was the 2020 OL really all that different than the 2016 OL? Using ACC YPC and ACC Sacks per game they are nearly identical. And that is with the added benefit of Dungey rushing and eluding sacks. In fairness TD didn't play the whole season. Also in fairness he looked bad when he did play.

For me, the first question we need to answer is what can we expect from this year's OL. The 2nd question is which QB can have more success given that OL.

Can we realistically expect this year's OL to be as good as 2018's OL? That OL gave up 2.75 sacks per game in ACC games (9th best). Without Dungey that number likely is over 3 per game. He avoided sacks and our opponents were less likely to blitz given his running ability. Both make it easier on the OL and they still were 9th best.

So can TD succeed getting sacked 3+ times per game and hurried a few on top of that?
 
HRE Otto IV said:
Can we realistically expect this year's OL to be as good as 2018's OL? That OL gave up 2.75 sacks per game in ACC games (9th best). Without Dungey that number likely is over 3 per game. He avoided sacks and our opponents were less likely to blitz given his running ability. Both make it easier on the OL and they still were 9th best.

So can TD succeed getting sacked 3+ times per game and hurried a few on top of that?
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I think the real question here is if the proportion of runs is going to go up.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
Was the 2020 OL really all that different than the 2016 OL? Using ACC YPC and ACC Sacks per game they are nearly identical. And that is with the added benefit of Dungey rushing and eluding sacks. In fairness TD didn't play the whole season. Also in fairness he looked bad when he did play.

For me, the first question we need to answer is what can we expect from this year's OL. The 2nd question is which QB can have more success given that OL.

Can we realistically expect this year's OL to be as good as 2018's OL? That OL gave up 2.75 sacks per game in ACC games (9th best). Without Dungey that number likely is over 3 per game. He avoided sacks and our opponents were less likely to blitz given his running ability. Both make it easier on the OL and they still were 9th best.

So can TD succeed getting sacked 3+ times per game and hurried a few on top of that?
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2016 didn't have a 280lb FB playing OG.
 
cusefan88 said:
2016 didn't have a 280lb FB playing OG.
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Elmore is shorter than most OL but solid at 280 lb and much better as an OL candidate than any other FB we have ever had. Was not the weak spot in 2020 as much as Vettorello, Servais playing injured, and the lack of any depth behind the 5 starters.

Certainly clear enough that the 2019 OL was a big drop off from the 2018 version (losing multi-year starters at OT).
 
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