2021 MLB Season

[dasher]

It’s only a better game if all you care about is offense. There’s so much more to baseball, though. The strategy of NL ball is entertaining. The Giants and Dodgers can put up 10+ runs in a game, just like the Blue Jays can. But you’ll never see something like this in the AL:

The night Todd Worrell played in right field

In the thick of a pennant race, Cardinals manager Whitey Herzog put pitcher Todd Worrell in right field in the ninth inning of a one-run game. The move worked. Ken Dayley, brought in to relieve Wor…

retrosimba.com

Managing in the AL might be the easiest job in sports. All you really have to do is figure out who is pitching in the 6th, 7th, and 8th. You don’t even need to be awake beyond those two or three innings.

And what makes someone amateur? Because they can’t hit? What about DHs who can’t field? Do “amateurs” like that belong in the HOF? As long as we’re protecting pitchers, should they even field? Let’s have a designated fielder on the mound.

Why not have designated hitters or fielders for every position? No need to bring in a defensive replacement at shortstop in the 8th. Let him play the whole game, with Matt Stairs, Jr. taking his at-bats.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, Redbird Twitter is still arguing over Mike Shildt double-switching Dylan Carlson’s spot in the order every other game and I want to see what I missed.

I don't want to see Todd Worrell play right field. I want to see a pro play right field. just like I want to see a pro up at bat. If I want to see an amateur play right field, there are plenty of local games I can go watch. And not pay the amount I have to pay to see a big league game.

 

[jncuse]

With Judge walked, you could back up and play for two. Judge got to hit with the infield in. Which made him a much more dangerous hitter. I would pitch to Stanton any day over Judge.

I don't believe that is true any longer. I believe they changed too.

Interesting comment on the bringing in of the infield to face Judge. It was an obvious factor that I overlooked despite my situational analysis of Stanton. Obviously that makes Judge a much more effective hitter situationally as well.

You may have shifted the balance of power of my view of that play with that simple oversight that I made on the infield being in. Still not sure -- I have seen the situation of walking a batter in that situation turn to poop so many times. There is also a reason that batters hit better with bases loaded than any other situation in baseball.

 

[dasher]

Interesting comment on the bringing in of the infield to face Judge. It was an obvious factor that I overlooked despite my situational analysis of Stanton. Obviously that makes Judge a much more effective hitter situationally as well.

You may have shifted the balance of power of my view of that play with that simple oversight that I made on the infield being in. Still not sure -- I have seen the situation of walking a batter in that situation turn to poop so many times. There is also a reason that batters hit better with bases loaded than any other situation in baseball.

Well, one part of that is if there is less than 2 outs, they can get a sac fly that doesn't hurt their batting average one bit. The question we will never know is whether they would have walked Stanton if they were fortunate enough to get Judge out. I suggest they would have. Or should have. There was no reason to pitch to both.

 

[Day2]

Problem with the pitcher hitting is that by the end of the game with all the double switching , the overall caliber of players playing in the game is downgraded . I want the best players playing the most …. I don’t want to watch a bunch of backups by the end of the game

You don’t have to double switch. A lot of NL managers get this wrong. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you always should.

 

[Day2]

Maybe they wouldn't. But A.L. fans did. They switched and they like the DH I suggest that the NL fans will as well. What sport hasn't changed a lot since you were a kid? Every major sport has had major rules changes. When I was a kid, there was no 3 pt shot. When I was at Syracuse, there was no shot clock. Every sport has changed their rules. Football changes rules every year. I wonder if the same people who don't want the DH to change the game, feel the same about ump reviews? Or wild cards? Or expansion? over time, game rules change.

Not every rule change is a good idea. Are you one of those who wants to get rid of the shift, too? Let’s just turn baseball into a four-hour home run derby.

 

[dasher]

Not every rule change is a good idea. Are you one of those who wants to get rid of the shift, too? Let’s just turn baseball into a four-hour home run derby.

Please tell me where I said that I wanted to get rid of the shift. Don't be a jerk.

 

[jncuse]

Well, one part of that is if there is less than 2 outs, they can get a sac fly that doesn't hurt their batting average one bit. The question we will never know is whether they would have walked Stanton if they were fortunate enough to get Judge out. I suggest they would have. Or should have. There was no reason to pitch to both.

Sac Flies actually hurt your -- they do make some, but at least not the huge gap in stats there is in that situation compared to others. The reason as I see it, is that with the bases loaded the batter gets all kind of leverage because the types of pitches a pitcher makes and the location will tend to be much more restricted.

Regarding walking Stanton.
I strongly disagree with walking Stanton with 2 outs, assuming you get Judge out. To me there is a debate on walking Judge, but none really with Stanton.

Not sure what is accomplished by doing that? With 2 outs you don't need a force at home or need a DP, which is the big advantage of walking a player in the first place in that scenario.

With runners at second and third and two outs, you are beat just as badly by any type of hit, so a prime power hitter has no real extra value. If you walk Stanton, you are not only getting beat by a hit but also a walk.

This scenario is actually quite a bit easier to analyze (at a simple level anyway) then the Judge non-walk.

Go after Stanton, you are beat 27.3% of the time (his batting average being .273)
Walk Stanton and go after Gallo you are beat 35.1% of the time (his on base % being 35.1%)

Of course there are other factors that come into play such as Lefty / Lefty matchups, but typically walking a guy with 2 outs in a walk-off scenario only makes sense if that player
a) has a really high average, or
b) the player on deck is really not that good and has an OBP that is very low, or has a severe platoon disadvantage.

 

[Day2]

I don't want to see Todd Worrell play right field. I want to see a pro play right field. just like I want to see a pro up at bat. If I want to see an amateur play right field, there are plenty of local games I can go watch. And not pay the amount I have to pay to see a big league game.

There’s nothing more amateur than having a guy hit for you. It’s popular, sure, but it’s not professional. The best NL organizations work on hitting with their pitchers. That’s what the pros do. The AL took the easy way out. That’s what the DH really is.

 

[dasher]

Sac Flies are not that common so they are not making a huge difference in the scenario -- they do make some, but at least not the huge gap in stats there is in that situation compared to others. The reason as I see it, is that with the bases loaded the batter gets all kind of leverage because the types of pitches a pitcher makes and the location will tend to be much more restricted.

Regarding walking Stanton.
I strongly disagree with walking Stanton with 2 outs, assuming you get Judge out. To me there is a debate on walking Judge, but none really with Stanton.

Not sure what is accomplished by doing that? With 2 outs you don't need a force at home or need a DP, which is the big advantage of walking a player in the first place in that scenario.

With runners at second and third and two outs, you are beat just as badly by any type of hit, so a prime power hitter has no real extra value. If you walk Stanton, you are not only getting beat by a hit but also a walk.

This scenario is actually quite a bit easier to analyze (at a simple level anyway) then the Judge non-walk.

Go after Stanton, you are beat 27.3% of the time (his batting average being .273)
Walk Stanton and go after Gallo you are beat 35.1% of the time (his on base % being 35.1%)

Of course there are other factors that come into play such as Lefty / Lefty matchups, but typically walking a guy with 2 outs in a walk-off scenario only makes sense if that player
a) has a really high average, or
b) the player on deck is really not that good and has an OBP that is very low, or has a severe platoon disadvantage.

He is a hot hitter. I'm not afraid of walking him with Kittredge. But I would have walked Judge so it doesn't matter.

 

[dasher]

There’s nothing more amateur than having a guy hit for you. It’s popular, sure, but it’s not professional. The best NL organizations work on hitting with their pitchers. That’s what the pros do. The AL took the easy way out. That’s what the DH really is.

Silly. Is that what every high school league has done? Is that what every college league has done? the pitcher hitting is waste of time and a waste of money for fans that pay to see pros hit. We aren't going to change our minds so this is also a waste of time.

 

[Day2]

Please tell me where I said that I wanted to get rid of the shift. Don't be a jerk.

Please tell me where I said you did. It was a question.

 

[Day2]

Silly. Is that what every high school league has done? Is that what every college league has done? the pitcher hitting is waste of time and a waste of money for fans that pay to see pros hit. We aren't going to change our minds so this is also a waste of time.

Uh, aren’t high school and college leagues amateur?

 

[dasher]

Please tell me where I said you did. It was a question.

No. It was an accusation. And it was foolish. It didn't add anything to the discussion.

 

[dasher]

Uh, aren’t high school and college leagues amateur?

the double switch is exciting. I think the DH is a much better game. As I posted earlier, if the Phillie owner didn't go fishing and was out of reach, the NL would have had the DH back in '73. You are free to like the pitcher hitting.

 

[Day2]

Silly. Is that what every high school league has done? Is that what every college league has done? the pitcher hitting is waste of time and a waste of money for fans that pay to see pros hit. We aren't going to change our minds so this is also a waste of time.

I pay to see pros play baseball.

 

[Day2]

the double switch is exciting. I think the DH is a much better game. As I posted earlier, if the Phillie owner didn't go fishing and was out of reach, the NL would have had the DH back in '73. You are free to like the pitcher hitting.

Actually, you were wrong about that, too. The NL vote was in 1980.

 

[dasher]

Actually, you were wrong about that, too. The NL vote was in 1980.

LOL Did you watch the espn special on it?

 

[Day2]

LOL Did you watch the espn special on it?

You’re more than welcome to blame ESPN, but the NL vote was in 1980.

 

[dasher]

Actually, you were wrong about that, too. The NL vote was in 1980.

Actually, you were wrong about that, too. The NL vote was in 1980.

You’re more than welcome to blame ESPN, but the NL vote was in 1980.

I'm not blaming anyone. The N.L. is going to change to what I want. You will have to deal with it.

 

[Day2]

I'm not blaming anyone. The N.L. is going to change to what I want. You will have to deal with it.

I agree with jncuse, it’s not the end of the world if they change it. But that’s beside the point. You said the NL last voted in 1973. That’s not true. It was 1980.

 

[dasher]

I agree with jncuse, it’s not the end of the world if they change it. But that’s beside the point. You said the NL last voted in 1973. That’s not true. It was 1980.

LOL yeah..that is big. You also said I was wrong about that too. Meaning I was wrong about the DH. The problem is, if I am wrong, why is the NL going to change? This has been a blast but I have a job to go to tomorrow. Not chem lab. Good nite little child. Don't forget to pass suzie a note after gym class.

 

[Day2]

LOL yeah..that is big. You also said I was wrong about that too. Meaning I was wrong about the DH. The problem is, if I am wrong, why is the NL going to change? This has been a blast but I have a job to go to tomorrow. Not chem lab. Good nite little child. Don't forget to pass suzie a note after gym class.

Now I have to laugh. You just can’t admit when you make a mistake, can you? I said you were wrong about when the vote took place and that every league other than the NL uses the DH, that’s all. You just wasted a page of this thread because you’re too proud. Maybe you need a designated poster.

 

[MSOrange]

I don't think there are many NL Fans that tell AL fans to change their game. But many AL Fans do that to NL Fans. Bunch of bigots!

The fact that the amateur has to hit, creates so many more strategic opportunities during the game which an AL Manager does not have to think about -- keeps me more in tuned to what is happening in the game and not just the current batter / pitcher matchup.

Of course it does create those 5 or so useless at bats during the game which decrease the game quality and are frankly embarrassing . Is that decreased quality worth it for the extra strategy throughout the game. Maybe not -- heck probably not - but you are messing with how somebody has enjoyed the game of their favourite team. And that is worth something to many - people don't like to change. It's not a quality issue -- its a don't change what I like.

But as I said, I think there is less and less resistance from NL Fans to the DH rule. And that is probably due to fans consuming both leagues more often and enjoying the quality of the AL Play more and that it outweighs the strategic benefits.

I agree totally with you. I enjoy the strategy aspect of the NL. But it's inevitable the NL will add it, so it's just the way it will be and I'll get used to it in all games.

 

[Alsacs]

 

[Alsacs]

DH- no DH in other sports would be like in the NBA games played in western conference arenas have a longer 3 point line than games in eastern conference arenas.
It’s so dumb that AL teams create teams with DHs and then half the games in the World Series are played under different rules.

The DH is way better than the pitcher hitting.
I don’t think pitchers hitting is what people want in situations where it affects the game.
Lineups are weaker in the NL.
Just add the DH and be done with it.