2021 MLB Season

[jncuse]

This is more of AL Board so I absolutely understand why you prefer the DH.

I grew up largely as an NL Fan. I was at one time strongly against the DH, and still mildly against it. There are so many more strategic decisions that have to be made in a game in the NL. You always have to consider when that pitcher spot is due which impacts so many decision. (When to Pull Pitchers, Double Switches, Do you Keep the pitcher until the end of the inning, what to do with the #8 batter) It results in you having to play much more of your team. So many people say that asking a pitcher to bunt is not strategy -- and it is not -- but the strategic implications are much more then that.

That being said with the inception of 13 man and 14 man staffs, shorter stints for starters, many of these strategic decisions have lesser impact. So I am relenting on the DH issue. Also seeing better players play more (the main argument for the AL) is not a bad thing.

There was a time that most NL-centric fans were strongly against the DH. I suspect that is no longer the case.
I suspect the DH will be coming to both leagues fairly soon.

 

[jncuse]

If the DH goes away, sh!tcan the separate leagues and have three divisions total.

How would the 3 divisions work. Are you taking 4 teams from each division?
I would need to see how the playoffs work before supporting that alternative.

 

[dasher]

That error on fat boys grounded leading off the top of the 9th didn’t help Boston ?

his grounding into DP with the bases loaded didn’t help ?

LOL Is this a serious comment? So, the guys that made outs in big spots today for the Rays must have been on the take. Let's go over all of the Yankee wins this year. You think we can find guys that made key errors and hit in to double plays? The Red Sox won because they made big hits when the game was on the line. I mean, you are Making a really stupid point. Maybe Cash was on the take when he didn't walk Judge which was an obvious move.

 

[dasher]

This is more of AL Board so I absolutely understand why you prefer the DH.

I grew up largely as an NL Fan. I was at one time strongly against the DH, and still mildly against it. There are so many more strategic decisions that have to be made in a game in the NL. You always have to consider when that pitcher spot is due which impacts so many decision. (When to Pull Pitchers, Double Switches, Do you Keep the pitcher until the end of the inning, what to do with the #8 batter) It results in you having to play much more of your team. So many people say that asking a pitcher to bunt is not strategy -- and it is not -- but the strategic implications are much more then that.

That being said with the inception of 13 man and 14 man staffs, shorter stints for starters, many of these strategic decisions have lesser impact. So I am relenting on the DH issue. Also seeing better players play more (the main argument for the AL) is not a bad thing.

There was a time that most NL-centric fans were strongly against the DH. I suspect that is no longer the case.
I suspect the DH will be coming to both leagues fairly soon.

the DH is just a better game. To which an amateur get up and take three pathetic swings is ridiculous. I hope after this season to never see it again. That the Red Sox had to play three key games without it, just really burned my butt.

 

[Briancuse]

the DH is just a better game. To which an amateur get up and take three pathetic swings is ridiculous. I hope after this season to never see it again. That the Red Sox had to play three key games without it, just really burned my butt.

The strategy of the game is better when the pitcher hits. 1-1 game in the 7th do I take my ace out to get some runs. It's a moot point because the dh is here to stay.

 

[JustPherU]

LOL Is this a serious comment? So, the guys that made outs in big spots today for the Rays must have been on the take. Let's go over all of the Yankee wins this year. You think we can find guys that made key errors and hit in to double plays? The Red Sox won because they made big hits when the game was on the line. I mean, you are Making a really stupid point. Maybe Cash was on the take when he didn't walk Judge which was an obvious move.

Problem with walking Judge of course is you have to come at Stanton, can’t get behind in the count or it’s ball game.I see it both ways and either walk Judge or pitch to Judge is a coin flip.

 

[dasher]

The strategy of the game is better when the pitcher hits. 1-1 game in the 7th do I take my ace out to get some runs. It's a moot point because the dh is here to stay.

If I was playing strato, I would use the pitcher hitting. As a fan, to see a pitcher come up and take three sad, pathetic swings, is a farce.

 

[donniesyracuse]

How would the 3 divisions work. Are you taking 4 teams from each division?
I would need to see how the playoffs work before supporting that alternative.

I guess there would be a lot of ways to do it. If you’re sticking with ten playoff teams, you could take the top 3 from each division and one wild card or the top two from each division and four wild cards. However they do it, I would want a huge advantage provided to the three division winners.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Maybe Cash was on the take when he didn't walk Judge which was an obvious move.

A pitcher has much more flexibility and freedom pitching to Judge with a base open than to Stanton with the bases loaded. It’s a lot of extra pressure to put on a pitcher.

 

[jncuse]

the DH is just a better game. To which an amateur get up and take three pathetic swings is ridiculous. I hope after this season to never see it again. That the Red Sox had to play three key games without it, just really burned my butt.

I don't think there are many NL Fans that tell AL fans to change their game. But many AL Fans do that to NL Fans. Bunch of bigots!

The fact that the amateur has to hit, creates so many more strategic opportunities during the game which an AL Manager does not have to think about -- keeps me more in tuned to what is happening in the game and not just the current batter / pitcher matchup.

Of course it does create those 5 or so useless at bats during the game which decrease the game quality and are frankly embarrassing . Is that decreased quality worth it for the extra strategy throughout the game. Maybe not -- heck probably not - but you are messing with how somebody has enjoyed the game of their favourite team. And that is worth something to many - people don't like to change. It's not a quality issue -- its a don't change what I like.

But as I said, I think there is less and less resistance from NL Fans to the DH rule. And that is probably due to fans consuming both leagues more often and enjoying the quality of the AL Play more and that it outweighs the strategic benefits.

 

[bpo57]

AL East teams played over 90 games against .500 teams while San Fran played 63. All records aren’t created equally.

That's what makes what TB accomplished so impressive. They won 100 games while going 51-25 in the toughest division in baseball. Anyone can win a short series but I have no idea why Houston is favored to win the AL over TB. TB was clearly the best team in the AL this year and they also have home field advantage.

 

[Briancuse]

Problem with walking Judge of course is you have to come at Stanton, can’t get behind in the count or it’s ball game.I see it both ways and either walk Judge or pitch to Judge is a coin flip.

He got him to hit a ground ball. It wasn't a bad decision. Stantons been killing it lately.

 

[jncuse]

A pitcher has much more flexibility and freedom pitching to Judge with a base open than to Stanton with the bases loaded. It’s a lot of extra pressure to put on a pitcher.

I want to like this post ONE MILLION TIMES!!!

I spent the good part of an hour on a Blue Jays message board arguing that the Rays did the right thing in going after Judge.

The main part of my argument was that in walking Judge, you make Stanton inherently much more effective in the upcoming at bat. Load the bases with the winning run at third, and the batter (Stanton) becomes much more comfortable because he knows the type of pitches and the location of pitches will be much more limited throughout his at bat.

Yes there are advantages to creating the force / DP, but these have to be weighed against the probabilities of walking in the winning run & how much more effective you have made Stanton because of his advantageous situation.

Part of the argument that I got was that Judge is one of the best hitters in baseball and he should be walked for that reason. And he absolutely is one of the best hitters in baseball. But you don't have to be one of the best hitters to be effective in that situation. Much of Judge's value is derived from his extra base power which really has no extra benefit in the situation. In fact the best hitters in that situation (guys who make more contact but with less power) might be the best in that situation -- they would be the guys you should automatically walk..

You don't automatically walk Judge who still has a relatively high K rate (although almost everybody does nowdays). You go for the K which is the best possible out in that situation (other then a DP from a walk). And then you take on Stanton with the base open, and he is weakened a lot merely by the situation.

Anyway I think it's close to 50/50 in terms of what to do in certain situations (depends on batters). You are in a bad situation either way.

The higher K rates in modern times encourage pitchers to not do what was once automatic. It used to be automatic to walk the batter in that situation. But I am not sure if analytically it is that strong a case either way anymore, especially with a better who has a K rate of over 25% ... which many players do today.

 

[jncuse]

Problem with walking Judge of course is you have to come at Stanton, can’t get behind in the count or it’s ball game.I see it both ways and either walk Judge or pitch to Judge is a coin flip.

Kudos to your analysis of the situation as well.
Agreed!

 

[STEVEHOLT]

The strategy of the game is better when the pitcher hits. 1-1 game in the 7th do I take my ace out to get some runs. It's a moot point because the dh is here to stay.

Problem with the pitcher hitting is that by the end of the game with all the double switching , the overall caliber of players playing in the game is downgraded . I want the best players playing the most …. I don’t want to watch a bunch of backups by the end of the game

 

[dasher]

I don't think there are many NL Fans that tell AL fans to change their game. But many AL Fans do that to NL Fans. Bunch of bigots!

The fact that the amateur has to hit, creates so many more strategic opportunities during the game which an AL Manager does not have to think about -- keeps me more in tuned to what is happening in the game and not just the current batter / pitcher matchup.

Of course it does create those 5 or so useless at bats during the game which decrease the game quality and are frankly embarrassing . Is that decreased quality worth it for the extra strategy throughout the game. Maybe not -- heck probably not - but you are messing with how somebody has enjoyed the game of their favourite team. And that is worth something to many - people don't like to change. It's not a quality issue -- its a don't change what I like.

But as I said, I think there is less and less resistance from NL Fans to the DH rule. And that is probably due to fans consuming both leagues more often and enjoying the quality of the AL Play more and that it outweighs the strategic benefits.

Just so that you know, and maybe you already do, the only reason that the N.L. kept the pitcher hitting back when it was voted on back in 1973 was that they couldn't reach the Phillie owner because he was out fishing. ESPN did a special on it a few years back. The pirates were going to vote the way the Phils did. So the phils abstained and thought well, we will get it the next time it came up for a vote. It never came up for a vote again because the Phils G.M. got himself fired. Every league in the world uses the DH. Everyone. But the N.L. has it right?

 

[Day2]

the DH is just a better game. To which an amateur get up and take three pathetic swings is ridiculous. I hope after this season to never see it again. That the Red Sox had to play three key games without it, just really burned my butt.

It’s only a better game if all you care about is offense. There’s so much more to baseball, though. The strategy of NL ball is entertaining. The Giants and Dodgers can put up 10+ runs in a game, just like the Blue Jays can. But you’ll never see something like this in the AL:

The night Todd Worrell played in right field

In the thick of a pennant race, Cardinals manager Whitey Herzog put pitcher Todd Worrell in right field in the ninth inning of a one-run game. The move worked. Ken Dayley, brought in to relieve Wor…

retrosimba.com

Managing in the AL might be the easiest job in sports. All you really have to do is figure out who is pitching in the 6th, 7th, and 8th. You don’t even need to be awake beyond those two or three innings.

And what makes someone amateur? Because they can’t hit? What about DHs who can’t field? Do “amateurs” like that belong in the HOF? As long as we’re protecting pitchers, should they even field? Let’s have a designated fielder on the mound.

Why not have designated hitters or fielders for every position? No need to bring in a defensive replacement at shortstop in the 8th. Let him play the whole game, with Matt Stairs, Jr. taking his at-bats.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, Redbird Twitter is still arguing over Mike Shildt double-switching Dylan Carlson’s spot in the order every other game and I want to see what I missed.

 

[jncuse]

Just so that you know, and maybe you already do, the only reason that the N.L. kept the pitcher hitting back when it was voted on back in 1973 was that they couldn't reach the Phillie owner because he was out fishing. ESPN did a special on it a few years back. The pirates were going to vote the way the Phils did. So the phils abstained and thought well, we will get it the next time it came up for a vote. It never came up for a vote again because the Phils G.M. got himself fired. Every league in the world uses the DH. Everyone. But the N.L. has it right?

Interesting story.

I'm not saying the NL has it right or wrong. Or that the AL has it right or wrong.

I am saying however that sports fans, like people in general, typically prefer what is familiar to them, learn to like what is familiar to them and are resistant to change. NL Fans (more old school) preferred the game they grew up with, and hence hang onto this style of game.

The argument is simple:

1. I am an Expos, Cardinals, Braves, Pirates fan etc.
2. I like baseball the way it is played and I watched mostly NL Games because that is the league my favourite team played in.
3. The DH changes the game a fair bit.
4. I like it the way it is, therefore I do not want to change.

The argument would be similar for an AL Fan.

As more and more baseball is now on TV, and there is less fans that watch the majority of their games in one league only I sense the tide is changing.. At this point what is perceived as the higher quality baseball will rise to the top. That lends its way to the DH being adopted to both leagues.

But why would you expect somebody who grew up watching more NL Games, and fell in love with baseball being played that way, and the strategic elements that came with it, be gung ho about fundamentally changing the game they love?

 

[Day2]

Just so that you know, and maybe you already do, the only reason that the N.L. kept the pitcher hitting back when it was voted on back in 1973 was that they couldn't reach the Phillie owner because he was out fishing. ESPN did a special on it a few years back. The pirates were going to vote the way the Phils did. So the phils abstained and thought well, we will get it the next time it came up for a vote. It never came up for a vote again because the Phils G.M. got himself fired. Every league in the world uses the DH. Everyone. But the N.L. has it right?

That’s not true. Japan does it the same way. One division uses the DH, while the other doesn’t.

 

[jncuse]

That’s not true. Japan does it the same way. One division uses the DH, while the other doesn’t.

There is a certain beauty in having 2 leagues doing things somewhat differently.

If I had 3 choices, I probably pick #3 below. Keep it as is.
1) No DH both leagues
2) DH Both leagues
3) Same as it is now.

 

[Day2]

There is a certain beauty in having 2 leagues doing things somewhat differently.

If I had 3 choices, I probably pick #3 below. Keep it as is.
1) No DH both leagues
2) DH Both leagues
3) Same as it is now.

Yeah, I like watching the road teams scramble during the WS. Half of the fun of baseball is arguing over strategy.

 

[jncuse]

Something me and Day2 can agree on.

That is how strong the No DH rule is!
It is a powerful thing.

 

[dasher]

I want to like this post ONE MILLION TIMES!!!

I spent the good part of an hour on a Blue Jays message board arguing that the Rays did the right thing in going after Judge.

The main part of my argument was that in walking Judge, you make Stanton inherently much more effective in the upcoming at bat. Load the bases with the winning run at third, and the batter (Stanton) becomes much more comfortable because he knows the type of pitches and the location of pitches will be much more limited throughout his at bat.

Yes there are advantages to creating the force / DP, but these have to be weighed against the probabilities of walking in the winning run & how much more effective you have made Stanton because of his advantageous situation.

Part of the argument that I got was that Judge is one of the best hitters in baseball and he should be walked for that reason. And he absolutely is one of the best hitters in baseball. But you don't have to be one of the best hitters to be effective in that situation. Much of Judge's value is derived from his extra base power which really has no extra benefit in the situation. In fact the best hitters in that situation (guys who make more contact but with less power) might be the best in that situation -- they would be the guys you should automatically walk..

You don't automatically walk Judge who still has a relatively high K rate (although almost everybody does nowdays). You go for the K which is the best possible out in that situation (other then a DP from a walk). And then you take on Stanton with the base open, and he is weakened a lot merely by the situation.

Anyway I think it's close to 50/50 in terms of what to do in certain situations (depends on batters). You are in a bad situation either way.

The higher K rates in modern times encourage pitchers to not do what was once automatic. It used to be automatic to walk the batter in that situation. But I am not sure if analytically it is that strong a case either way anymore, especially with a better who has a K rate of over 25% ... which many players do today.

With Judge walked, you could back up and play for two. Judge got to hit with the infield in. Which made him a much more dangerous hitter. I would pitch to Stanton any day over Judge.

That’s not true. Japan does it the same way. One division uses the DH, while the other doesn’t.

I don't believe that is true any longer. I believe they changed too.

 

[dasher]

Interesting story.

I'm not saying the NL has it right or wrong. Or that the AL has it right or wrong.

I am saying however that sports fans, like people in general, typically prefer what is familiar to them, learn to like what is familiar to them and are resistant to change. NL Fans (more old school) preferred the game they grew up with, and hence hang onto this style of game.

The argument is simple:

1. I am an Expos, Cardinals, Braves, Pirates fan etc.
2. I like baseball the way it is played and I watched mostly NL Games because that is the league my favourite team played in.
3. The DH changes the game a fair bit.
4. I like it the way it is, therefore I do not want to change.

The argument would be similar for an AL Fan.

As more and more baseball is now on TV, and there is less fans that watch the majority of their games in one league only I sense the tide is changing.. At this point what is perceived as the higher quality baseball will rise to the top. That lends its way to the DH being adopted to both leagues.

But why would you expect somebody who grew up watching more NL Games, and fell in love with baseball being played that way, and the strategic elements that came with it, be gung ho about fundamentally changing the game they love?

Maybe they wouldn't. But A.L. fans did. They switched and they like the DH I suggest that the NL fans will as well. What sport hasn't changed a lot since you were a kid? Every major sport has had major rules changes. When I was a kid, there was no 3 pt shot. When I was at Syracuse, there was no shot clock. Every sport has changed their rules. Football changes rules every year. I wonder if the same people who don't want the DH to change the game, feel the same about ump reviews? Or wild cards? Or expansion? over time, game rules change.

 

[cuseattle]

Something me and Day2 can agree on.

That is how strong the No DH rule is!
It is a powerful thing.

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