690West
Moneyline Master
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Hahaha. I don’t like my chances. And of course I’m bitter!!
2021 MLB Season
- Thread starter OrangeXtreme
- Start date
You don't like your chances. Vegas has set a ridiculous line on the fight. They don't show you much love.
Yeah, this should shut up the national media and Kevin Cash.
Poor Matt Vasgerian can’t believe it.
jncuse
I brought the Cocaine to the White House
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Is Kevin Cash complaining?
He never really came out to argue the call during the game anyway. (Unless he is doing some talking post game ... I turned off TV for the past hour so don't know
You will like this. Before the Yankee playoff game, Felger and Mazz were saying that there were more Yankee fans at Fenway park than Red Sox fans. Then they said that the Red Sox were giving away tickets to College kids. Well, there weren't more Yankee fans at the game and all year, every home game, the Red Sox sold 350 tickets to college kids for 9 bucks a ticket. they decided to do that again for the Yankee playoff game (they sold them for 39 bucks) They could have got more for them but decided to do what they had done all year. Felger and Mazz never let the truth get in the way of a slanted story.
Last edited:
Day2
Living Legend
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“Since the end of World War II, Cardinals pitchers have accumulated 9.2 fWAR as position players, the highest among all teams due to a combination of defensive prowess and offensive aptitude.”
That’s what it means to be professional. It’s not having someone do your job for you.
jncuse
I brought the Cocaine to the White House
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I think the only situation where the "third" extra base can be added by an ump is when a fair ball goes out of play due to "Fan Interference". When a fan has interfered I seem to remember where a runner who was running on the play was awarded home.
But that is a completely different situation.
jncuse
I brought the Cocaine to the White House
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As an Expos fan I believe I trumped what Red Sox fans went through even if the pain was for only a 25 year period or so. The ultimate trump card over any fan is losing the team.
There is certainly much, much less of a "nation" of fans. Let's call it a small county of fans. But the
"individual" hard core fans, even if there were much less (and many casuals and hardcores bolted for good reason in that 25 years), were just as passionate as a hardcore Red Sox fan or any hardcore fan of any MLB team. The ones that stuck to the end had to put up with so much crap. No surprise that many of us stepped away from baseball for some years after 2004.
Later tonight, or later this week I will go through the downs from 1979 to 2004. Never matched in the history of baseball IMO.
I hear ya. Yeah losing your team is the worst.
What made the Sox fans' suffering notable were the brutal losses as they were on the verge of winning championships. Game 7 world series losses in 1946 (wasn't around for that one), 1967 and 1975. The hideous game 6 loss in 1986 that led to another game 7 loss a couple of nights later. The Bucky Dent homer in 1978 and the Aaron Boone walk-off in 2003. I'm pretty sure no MLB franchise ever came close to that type of near miss torture. 86 years is a fairly long stretch of futility.
jncuse
I brought the Cocaine to the White House
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The trials of being a Montreal Expo Fan - Part 1
This will be therapeutic in a way.
From 1969-1978 the Expos were your typical expansion team. It took until their 10th year to become relevant -- a little longer than some -- but also better than its expansion mate the San Diego Padres
So let's start in 1979 which would be my first memories of baseball. While I don't remember watching the Expos in 1979 that would have been the first year my parents would have taken me to an Expo game so let's start there. Although I do need to highlight one item from 1977.
1977 - The Expos move from Jarry Park to Olympic Stadium: Jarry Park was -- even by standards of those times -- a very substandard MLB park. The 1976 Montreal Olympics, and the building of a brand new stadium, should have been a major blessing for the franchise. Instead too much power was granted to some idiotic architect who insisted on stupidity like "Fingers coming from the side of the roof" and a Spaceship like structure which made for a horrible ball park and made building a roof much more problematic then it ever should have been. It also had arguably the worst turf situation in MLB. This should have been the opportunity for the City to have a great ballpark (in the mold of what was normal for the times). But by about 1985 it started to become a bit of a farce. And by the 1990's it became a major problem.
1979 - Expos blow the division lead in the final week of the season With 6 days left in the season they led the NL East. They finished the season 1-4 and missed the playoffs by 2.0 games. But that was okay, this was one of the most talented young teams in baseball. They had never finished .500 and were a 78 win team they year before.
They had some good young pitching, arguably the best catcher in baseball (in Gary Carter), and what was considered by some the best outfield in baseball.
"The Team of the 1980's" --
As the team entered the 1980's many expected the team to make the playoffs a number of times due to young talent. 5 of the 7 best Expos / National players in terms of WAR, were the core of the at Expos team between 1980-1984. Those players should have been enough with decent supporting talent to make the playoffs. Unfortunately they never got enough talent around them for various reasons and would never make the playoffs except for sliding in during a strike shortened season in 1981.
And entering 1980 the Expos had other great talent other than those 5.
Ellis Valentine being the largest one. An all star at 22, a gold glover at 23, he was having his best season in 1980 at the age of 25... but fell to injuries for half that year. His career was essentially done by 1981 due to injuries and drug issues.
Larry Parrish at the age of 25 in 1979, was 4th in NL MVP voting. He was supposed to be one of the key pieces. But he struggled in 1980 and 1981 - the Expos then gave up on him for 35 year old Al Oliver. Al Oliver was great in 1982 (3rd in MVP voting) but he became old very quickly after that
The Expos were not only about position players. By 1979 and 1980 they were considered to have the best group of young arms in MLB, But none of them are pictured above with consistent veteran Steve Rogers. Why? Young pitchers like David Palmer and Charlie Lea would be injury prone. David Palmer had his best season at 21 in 1979 before injuries plagued him for most of his career. Scott Sanderson who was great as a 23 year old in 1980, would never return to that level. Bill Gullickson had arguably his best year as a 21 year old rookie in 1980.
So while there were stars there were a number of young players from that 1979 and 1980 team that really never matured as talents, or just plain fell off.
1980 - Expos hold the Division Lead with 3 games to go. Miss the playoffs.
Why the hell would Dick Williams put that bum Stan Bahnsen in to pace Mike Schmidt in a critical moment on the final weekend.
1981 - Blue Monday - How many franchises have their most historic moment being a loss in an elimination playoff game?
1981 was the only year the Expos made the playoffs and that was in part because the Strike allowed for 2 teams from each division. They won their only playoff series that year against Philly, but that only led to an NLCS Appearance.
- The NLCS at the time was a 5 game series. 1981 was the year of "Fernando Mania" where Fernando was an absolute beast.
- Expos took a 2-1 series lead, but blew the opportunity to win at home in Game 4.
- Fernando Valenzuela would likely not have pitched that game 5 on short rest, but then it rained, and rained, and rained, and since that idiotic architect had built a stadium with a roof that still did not function, the game had to be cancelled.
- So now Fernando was available for game 5. Of course he pitched 8 2/3 innings of brilliant baseball.
- And then Rick Monday won the game with a home run in the top of the 9th when the Expos brought in their star pitcher to Pitch.
1982 - 1984- Star Studded Mediocrity
As the team entered the 1982 season it was still considered one of the best in baseball. But 1982 was largely mediocre in 1982. This was the time when all the other young players on those 1979 & 1980 team seemed to regress / be gone / hurt. The 1982 team had a legit 5 all stars but not much else.
1983 and 1984 were forgettable seasons. The team floundered around .500, the owner was upset and a major move was coming
December 1984 - Owner Charles Bronfman starts to give up on the team. The Heart and Soul of the Expos, Gary Carter, is traded for 3 baseballs and a Rosin Bag.
What was the return
Floyd Youmans - showed mild promise when he was not high on coke or injured. (which was 98% of the time)
Hubie Brooks - Did get one of the oddest 100 RBI seasons in 1985. But he was the worst defensive SS I had ever seen.
Herm Winningham - A .230 hitting outfielder with no power or plate discipline. Awesome.
Mike Fitzgerald - The catcher to replace Carter, a replacement level player.
1985 and 1986 - Largely forgettable seasons. Nothing really bad happened because we were never good enough to feel pain.
November 1986 to February 1987 - Free Agency Disaster - Andre Dawson and Tim Raines
In the offseason of 1986, declining Hall of Famer Andre Dawson has had enough with the craptastic turf of the Big Owe which has led to multiple knee injuries. Those injuries robbed him of most of his athletic brilliance. Not sure if the Expos ever made a legit offer that year -- probably not. The "cheapness" era had begun. He signs with Cubs and becomes the 1987 NL MVP.
The Expos allow Tim Raines, 1986 NL Batting Champion and second in the NL in WAR in 1986 to become a free agent. No doubt he is one of the best players in baseball. Thanks to collusion no teams makes an offer to Tim Raines that year, and he signs back with the Expos.
1987 - Expos have the best record in the NL East from May 1st to the end of the year.
Why is May 1 relevant? Superstar (at that time) Tim Raines was forced to sit out the first month of the season due to an absurd free agency rule that has since been fixed. In the 140 games he was allowed to play the Expos had better records than the Mets and Cardinals.
That being said that 1987 team is one of the worst 91 win teams of all time. Not sure how they won 91 games with that roster. But they did.
1989 - In late may Expos trade for pending Free agent Mark Langston, are 63-44 on August 7th, the 3rd best record in baseball and have a 3 game lead in the NL East. They proceed to finish the season with an awesome 18-37 record and finish 12 games out of first.
Mark Langston was not the problem that year at 12-9, 2.39 ERA, but the offence did them in.
1989 Offseason - Of course the Expos do not sign Mark Langston. Nobody expected them to. But that young pitcher who was 0-4 with a 6.67 ERA that they traded to get Langston -- Randy Johnson.
As we get to the 1990's, Expos owner Charles Bronfman has had enough although he largely gave up on the franchise after the 1984 season and the Gary Carter trade. He sells the team to a local consortium who has no real interest in the Expos.
That consortium is fronted by Claude Brochu a mere millionaire who invested a minimal amount of the team but is told to never make any cash calls, and any cash calls will need to front any losses. And that would be a problem.
1990's Part 2 - To Come
This will be therapeutic in a way.
From 1969-1978 the Expos were your typical expansion team. It took until their 10th year to become relevant -- a little longer than some -- but also better than its expansion mate the San Diego Padres
So let's start in 1979 which would be my first memories of baseball. While I don't remember watching the Expos in 1979 that would have been the first year my parents would have taken me to an Expo game so let's start there. Although I do need to highlight one item from 1977.
1977 - The Expos move from Jarry Park to Olympic Stadium: Jarry Park was -- even by standards of those times -- a very substandard MLB park. The 1976 Montreal Olympics, and the building of a brand new stadium, should have been a major blessing for the franchise. Instead too much power was granted to some idiotic architect who insisted on stupidity like "Fingers coming from the side of the roof" and a Spaceship like structure which made for a horrible ball park and made building a roof much more problematic then it ever should have been. It also had arguably the worst turf situation in MLB. This should have been the opportunity for the City to have a great ballpark (in the mold of what was normal for the times). But by about 1985 it started to become a bit of a farce. And by the 1990's it became a major problem.
1979 - Expos blow the division lead in the final week of the season With 6 days left in the season they led the NL East. They finished the season 1-4 and missed the playoffs by 2.0 games. But that was okay, this was one of the most talented young teams in baseball. They had never finished .500 and were a 78 win team they year before.
They had some good young pitching, arguably the best catcher in baseball (in Gary Carter), and what was considered by some the best outfield in baseball.
"The Team of the 1980's" --
As the team entered the 1980's many expected the team to make the playoffs a number of times due to young talent. 5 of the 7 best Expos / National players in terms of WAR, were the core of the at Expos team between 1980-1984. Those players should have been enough with decent supporting talent to make the playoffs. Unfortunately they never got enough talent around them for various reasons and would never make the playoffs except for sliding in during a strike shortened season in 1981.
And entering 1980 the Expos had other great talent other than those 5.
Ellis Valentine being the largest one. An all star at 22, a gold glover at 23, he was having his best season in 1980 at the age of 25... but fell to injuries for half that year. His career was essentially done by 1981 due to injuries and drug issues.
Larry Parrish at the age of 25 in 1979, was 4th in NL MVP voting. He was supposed to be one of the key pieces. But he struggled in 1980 and 1981 - the Expos then gave up on him for 35 year old Al Oliver. Al Oliver was great in 1982 (3rd in MVP voting) but he became old very quickly after that
The Expos were not only about position players. By 1979 and 1980 they were considered to have the best group of young arms in MLB, But none of them are pictured above with consistent veteran Steve Rogers. Why? Young pitchers like David Palmer and Charlie Lea would be injury prone. David Palmer had his best season at 21 in 1979 before injuries plagued him for most of his career. Scott Sanderson who was great as a 23 year old in 1980, would never return to that level. Bill Gullickson had arguably his best year as a 21 year old rookie in 1980.
So while there were stars there were a number of young players from that 1979 and 1980 team that really never matured as talents, or just plain fell off.
1980 - Expos hold the Division Lead with 3 games to go. Miss the playoffs.
Why the hell would Dick Williams put that bum Stan Bahnsen in to pace Mike Schmidt in a critical moment on the final weekend.
1981 - Blue Monday - How many franchises have their most historic moment being a loss in an elimination playoff game?
1981 was the only year the Expos made the playoffs and that was in part because the Strike allowed for 2 teams from each division. They won their only playoff series that year against Philly, but that only led to an NLCS Appearance.
- The NLCS at the time was a 5 game series. 1981 was the year of "Fernando Mania" where Fernando was an absolute beast.
- Expos took a 2-1 series lead, but blew the opportunity to win at home in Game 4.
- Fernando Valenzuela would likely not have pitched that game 5 on short rest, but then it rained, and rained, and rained, and since that idiotic architect had built a stadium with a roof that still did not function, the game had to be cancelled.
- So now Fernando was available for game 5. Of course he pitched 8 2/3 innings of brilliant baseball.
- And then Rick Monday won the game with a home run in the top of the 9th when the Expos brought in their star pitcher to Pitch.
1982 - 1984- Star Studded Mediocrity
As the team entered the 1982 season it was still considered one of the best in baseball. But 1982 was largely mediocre in 1982. This was the time when all the other young players on those 1979 & 1980 team seemed to regress / be gone / hurt. The 1982 team had a legit 5 all stars but not much else.
1983 and 1984 were forgettable seasons. The team floundered around .500, the owner was upset and a major move was coming
December 1984 - Owner Charles Bronfman starts to give up on the team. The Heart and Soul of the Expos, Gary Carter, is traded for 3 baseballs and a Rosin Bag.
What was the return
Floyd Youmans - showed mild promise when he was not high on coke or injured. (which was 98% of the time)
Hubie Brooks - Did get one of the oddest 100 RBI seasons in 1985. But he was the worst defensive SS I had ever seen.
Herm Winningham - A .230 hitting outfielder with no power or plate discipline. Awesome.
Mike Fitzgerald - The catcher to replace Carter, a replacement level player.
1985 and 1986 - Largely forgettable seasons. Nothing really bad happened because we were never good enough to feel pain.
November 1986 to February 1987 - Free Agency Disaster - Andre Dawson and Tim Raines
In the offseason of 1986, declining Hall of Famer Andre Dawson has had enough with the craptastic turf of the Big Owe which has led to multiple knee injuries. Those injuries robbed him of most of his athletic brilliance. Not sure if the Expos ever made a legit offer that year -- probably not. The "cheapness" era had begun. He signs with Cubs and becomes the 1987 NL MVP.
The Expos allow Tim Raines, 1986 NL Batting Champion and second in the NL in WAR in 1986 to become a free agent. No doubt he is one of the best players in baseball. Thanks to collusion no teams makes an offer to Tim Raines that year, and he signs back with the Expos.
1987 - Expos have the best record in the NL East from May 1st to the end of the year.
Why is May 1 relevant? Superstar (at that time) Tim Raines was forced to sit out the first month of the season due to an absurd free agency rule that has since been fixed. In the 140 games he was allowed to play the Expos had better records than the Mets and Cardinals.
That being said that 1987 team is one of the worst 91 win teams of all time. Not sure how they won 91 games with that roster. But they did.
1989 - In late may Expos trade for pending Free agent Mark Langston, are 63-44 on August 7th, the 3rd best record in baseball and have a 3 game lead in the NL East. They proceed to finish the season with an awesome 18-37 record and finish 12 games out of first.
Mark Langston was not the problem that year at 12-9, 2.39 ERA, but the offence did them in.
1989 Offseason - Of course the Expos do not sign Mark Langston. Nobody expected them to. But that young pitcher who was 0-4 with a 6.67 ERA that they traded to get Langston -- Randy Johnson.
As we get to the 1990's, Expos owner Charles Bronfman has had enough although he largely gave up on the franchise after the 1984 season and the Gary Carter trade. He sells the team to a local consortium who has no real interest in the Expos.
That consortium is fronted by Claude Brochu a mere millionaire who invested a minimal amount of the team but is told to never make any cash calls, and any cash calls will need to front any losses. And that would be a problem.
1990's Part 2 - To Come
jncuse
I brought the Cocaine to the White House
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Part 2 - The 1990's
As we enter the 1990's the Expos are considered to have one of the best farm systems in baseball. In the 1989 and 1990 season young talent like Grissom, Walker, Deshields would make the team and start an exciting direction that will lead to modest contention as early as 1992.
They also have
1) The Worst Stadium in Baseball
2) The Worst Ownership Group in Baseball.
1990 Offseason - Tim Raines is the problem - let's trade him for freaking Ivan Calderon and save $1million.
in 1990 the Expos go a decent 85-77 with 89 pyth wins. From 1987-1989 the cheap ass Expos may have done one of the best jobs ever at scraping the garbage bin. They picked up 3 recovering drug addicts that nobody wanted in Dennis Martinez, Pascual Perez, and Oil Can Boyd. They helped those teams be passable and of course all left for greener pastures later on.
But after a positive 1990 season they decided to trade Tim Raines for freaking Ivan Calderon.
1989/1990 - The "Retractable" Roof Finally Works... oh wait it doesn't
In 1989 I was "lucky" enough to go to the first game that the Expos lifted the "retractable" roof for a baseball game. It was also memorable for being Larry Walker's first ever MLB game.
The Expos had so much confidence in the roof that when they started opening it an hour before the game they made sure every fan in the bottom level move up to a higher level for safety reasons!
And before the 1989 the roof would stop working. I think they fixed it again for a few games in 1990, but the damn thing screwed up again, Finally they had to decide permanent roof or no roof. They chose permanent roof. In bright Orange. Because bright Orange will work well with the Yellow and Blue Seats, and Green Turf.
1991 - The Big Owe Falls Apart.. Literally
1991 was a bad season.
Made worse by the fact that a large piece of the exterior of the Big Owe, crashed to the ground in September. The team played on the road for all of September.
1993 - My Favourite Season as a Baseball Fan
Nothing bad happened this year.
Things started to really go right, the Expos won 94 games and nearly won the division. I went to about 15 games that year, including three memorable ones in September.
Nothing embarrassing happened to the Expos that year.
Things were looking bright for 1994.
Off course in that offseason many of us Expos fans were pissed that we traded a very good second baseman Delino Deshields for Pedro Martinez. How wrong we were.
1994 - Best Team in Baseball. @@@@ the Playoffs. Let's Strike
To be continued.
As we enter the 1990's the Expos are considered to have one of the best farm systems in baseball. In the 1989 and 1990 season young talent like Grissom, Walker, Deshields would make the team and start an exciting direction that will lead to modest contention as early as 1992.
They also have
1) The Worst Stadium in Baseball
2) The Worst Ownership Group in Baseball.
1990 Offseason - Tim Raines is the problem - let's trade him for freaking Ivan Calderon and save $1million.
in 1990 the Expos go a decent 85-77 with 89 pyth wins. From 1987-1989 the cheap ass Expos may have done one of the best jobs ever at scraping the garbage bin. They picked up 3 recovering drug addicts that nobody wanted in Dennis Martinez, Pascual Perez, and Oil Can Boyd. They helped those teams be passable and of course all left for greener pastures later on.
But after a positive 1990 season they decided to trade Tim Raines for freaking Ivan Calderon.
1989/1990 - The "Retractable" Roof Finally Works... oh wait it doesn't
In 1989 I was "lucky" enough to go to the first game that the Expos lifted the "retractable" roof for a baseball game. It was also memorable for being Larry Walker's first ever MLB game.
The Expos had so much confidence in the roof that when they started opening it an hour before the game they made sure every fan in the bottom level move up to a higher level for safety reasons!
And before the 1989 the roof would stop working. I think they fixed it again for a few games in 1990, but the damn thing screwed up again, Finally they had to decide permanent roof or no roof. They chose permanent roof. In bright Orange. Because bright Orange will work well with the Yellow and Blue Seats, and Green Turf.
1991 - The Big Owe Falls Apart.. Literally
1991 was a bad season.
Made worse by the fact that a large piece of the exterior of the Big Owe, crashed to the ground in September. The team played on the road for all of September.
1993 - My Favourite Season as a Baseball Fan
Nothing bad happened this year.
Things started to really go right, the Expos won 94 games and nearly won the division. I went to about 15 games that year, including three memorable ones in September.
Nothing embarrassing happened to the Expos that year.
Things were looking bright for 1994.
Off course in that offseason many of us Expos fans were pissed that we traded a very good second baseman Delino Deshields for Pedro Martinez. How wrong we were.
1994 - Best Team in Baseball. @@@@ the Playoffs. Let's Strike
To be continued.
jncuse
I brought the Cocaine to the White House
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I would say of the long time franchises the Red Sox, Indians and Cubs have had the most heartache. But I would agree the Red Sox were at the top of that list.
The Cubs and Indians were just bad for most of the 20th Century.
The Red Sox would have many more good teams, but would lose in much more painful ways.
sutomcat
No recent Cali or Iggy awards; Mr Irrelevant
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Vasgerian had a stop in Syracuse on his road to being an MLB PBP guy.
One of many…
What other Syracuse Chiefs broadcasters have worked in major league baseball?
The Syracuse Chiefs have sent a long line of broadcasters to the major leagues.
baseball should get with the times and fix the 2 base rule on all these plays.. in the old days of less umps or replays and tv i get the rule.. It makes sense in HS/college ball of 1-2 umps. But in the MLB the 2 base rule is just dumb..
there are high fly balls where the batter is at 2nd when the ball hits the ground and can bounce over a fence and he gets a double. with replay and so many angles but the runner where he would likely end up dont just say 2 bases any more.
there are high fly balls where the batter is at 2nd when the ball hits the ground and can bounce over a fence and he gets a double. with replay and so many angles but the runner where he would likely end up dont just say 2 bases any more.
kirbivore
2019 Cali Award (Passing Yards)
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Fenway might be the only park with a section of OF wall that low to allow that play to happen. A ball hit like that anywhere else with the same action harmlessly bounces off the wall a second time.
Both the Red Sox and Patriots didn't win!! The other teams lost!! Caller!!!
That is what you are hearing today on Felger and Mazz.
My cousin Joe is smarter than either of us. He doesn't listen to them. It's like a bad car crash. You don't want to look, but you do. Mazz said that nothing like that play with hunter last night has ever happened before. Never mind that his own station talked about the same play just 2 years ago with the Rays getting the benefit of the same call.
No Matt V tonight. Thank God
CuseFaninVT
2023-24 Iggy Winner Leading Rebounder
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Cash overthinking this one
If he was going to use McClannon he should have started him.
Bringing him in mid inning was just stupid.
He totally screwed that up.
Cash has another 5 pitching changes in his books to slow this game down.
Sox forcing the Rays to use Florial yesterday really screwed up the Rays pitching for this game.
CuseFaninVT
2023-24 Iggy Winner Leading Rebounder
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Devers arm injury kept him from being aggressive there.
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