2022-23 Portal Cup

[CbusCuse]

I don’t disagree with any of that. But want to point out it necessitates MORE kids having to transfer schools in order to play high level football. It’s encouraging more portal activity.

For sure. Having kids changing schools isn't optimal for them or for football fans. But what is optimal for the players is them getting a stake in college $ from NIL.

I guess I kind of wish the NCAA opened up NIL for players sake but wish they didn't allow players to play immediately when transferring. Seems like kids would still get paid but at least that would limit the number that transfer a bit. Sure you can transfer and possibly get paid more NIL money but the player has to decide if its worth it to wait a year to play in games. Also the big boys would be less inclined to take transfers as that is a scholarship used that can't play for a year.

 

[All4SU]

For sure. Having kids changing schools isn't optimal for them or for football fans. But what is optimal for the players is them getting a stake in college $ from NIL.

Here is, perhaps, where our opinions diverge from one another. To me, the optimal is to educate young student athletes.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Agreed. I think number of freshman scholarship opportunities are going to be the same. As long as the total scholarships being used at any one time are the same and we are talking about kids having the typical 4 years of college or 5 for a redshirt year then the number of new scholarships available to the freshman each year should always be the same.

But now much more often the experienced talent already in college at lower level programs will now transfer more often to better programs, instead of those better programs taking a freshman like they have in the past. In general, this will result, in freshman needing to start at "lesser programs" until they prove themselves as valuable in college to the point where many will likely transfer to "better programs".

To me this just shifts what teams the proven talent is playing on up the food chain. Even talented freshman are more of a gamble than what you have seen from the better talent already playing in college. All the talent and experience is likely going to flow up to better programs and it will be harder for lesser programs to retain their hidden gems or developed talent. The higher profile programs with more NIL win. This just makes it so there seems to be a lot less parity. The best programs should never have a year where the young talent didn't pan out like hoped. They are now just picking from the best guaranteed talent. Top teams will always be on top and never down.

P5 walk ons are even entering the portal.

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[CbusCuse]

Here is, perhaps, where our opinions diverge from one another. To me, the optimal is to educate young student athletes.

The education part goes without saying and theoretically shouldn't really be effected, they are just changing schools. And also there are the same number of kids at each school as there were before.

 

[CbusCuse]

P5 walk ons are even entering the portal.

Not sure what you mean by this but I believe it. Is it more than the number of walk-ons that were leaving programs before? Not sure? Is it the same number but now they can put there name in the portal if they want. Or maybe it is more and that is a good thing for these kids. Maybe it gives them a way to see if another school wants them as a walk on or even if a lower division football school is willing to now give them a scholarship. Not sure I have a problem with this. Gives these kids options options I guess. They don't have to leave obviously.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Not sure what you mean by this but I believe it. Is it more than the number of walk-ons that were leaving programs before? Not sure? Is it the same number but now they can put there name in the portal if they want. Or maybe it is more and that is a good thing for these kids. Maybe it gives them a way to see if another school wants them as a walk on or even if a lower division football school is willing to now give them a scholarship. Not sure I have a problem with this. Gives these kids options options I guess. They don't have to leave obviously.

Since even preferred P5 walk ons are looking for scholarship opportunities, who do you think would be effected? I’d assume freshman - guess that’s my point. So it’s not really the same landscape for kids coming out of high school and their opportunities now vs say 3 years ago.

 

[CuseLegacy]

The education part goes without saying and theoretically shouldn't really be effected, they are just changing schools. And also there are the same number of kids at each school as there were before.

No. Education and opportunity is being effected by the portal for HS prospects. If schools offer scholarships to portal transfers there will be less available spots for HS kids. It ends up being a rearrangement of the deck chairs.

 

[texascpa]

No. Education and opportunity is being effected by the portal for HS prospects. If schools offer scholarships to portal transfers there will be less available spots for HS kids. It ends up being a rearrangement of the deck chairs.

If it's a rearrangement of deck chairs, how are there fewer chairs to go around?

With the exception of Div II or JUCO moving into FBS, I don't understand the math of how transfers reduce overall scholarship opportunities. Yeah, we offer schollies to transfers, but we also have schollies open up when we lose players to the portal. If 10 players transfered from Alabama to SU, and 10 from SU to Alabama, the net impact is zero to high schoolers. Maybe you could argue that prior to the portal athletes who were "asked to leave" made room for high schoolers. Now those players can jump into the portal and get picked up elsewhere. I don't see that as inherently bad.

 

[OrangeAl]

The only way that the flow of high schoolers into the college ranks will be reduced would be if some of the portallers are those who formerly just dropped out of college when their careers weren't going the way they thought they should.

 

[ar inj]

Number of scholarships is a fixed number; players graduate and some players enter the portal and are never seen again. Thus, high school recruits are required. Maybe where they end up changes a bit at the margins but the system still needs players

 

[CbusCuse]

Since even preferred P5 walk ons are looking for scholarship opportunities, who do you think would be effected? I’d assume freshman - guess that’s my point. So it’s not really the same landscape for kids coming out of high school and their opportunities now vs say 3 years ago.

No. Education and opportunity is being effected by the portal for HS prospects. If schools offer scholarships to portal transfers there will be less available spots for HS kids. It ends up being a rearrangement of the deck chairs.

This is tricky. If schools are giving scholarships to portal players, I would assume nearly all of them have scholarships already. There could be very few exceptions being a walk on who earns a scholarship somewhere via the portal. That seems rare to me. And I'd expect the schools that know that player to give him a scholarship first before another program would. Some teams will still add via JUCO and that doesn't really change things. After COVID years are done, has the landscape really changed regarding scholarships available? i still don't think it has. The total number of scholarships hasn't changed. If the scholarships for graduates aren't going to those freshman who are they going to? And you can't say its portals because they are already part of the scholarship pool. If anything it just causes a higher percentage of freshman the lower you go down the football chain. There will be a higher percentage of experienced players at the better schools. There are the same number of kids at each school getting the same education at that school. Only difference is more kids will start out getting an education at a "lesser" football school and then move on to an education at a "greater" football school later on in college.

 

[CuseLegacy]

And an update on the Portal. It will now be open again April 15-30, not May, this year. This will make it interesting with Spring Games.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Designating Spring enrollees with a dollar sign is such a sign of the times

 

[NJCuse97]

You can never have enough NJ recruiting. It's a fruitful state plus in South Jersey you have the Philly connections.

Both Camponile and Partridge are north Jersey guys.

 

[NJCuse97]

This is tricky. If schools are giving scholarships to portal players, I would assume nearly all of them have scholarships already. There could be very few exceptions being a walk on who earns a scholarship somewhere via the portal. That seems rare to me. And I'd expect the schools that know that player to give him a scholarship first before another program would. Some teams will still add via JUCO and that doesn't really change things. After COVID years are done, has the landscape really changed regarding scholarships available? i still don't think it has. The total number of scholarships hasn't changed. If the scholarships for graduates aren't going to those freshman who are they going to? And you can't say its portals because they are already part of the scholarship pool. If anything it just causes a higher percentage of freshman the lower you go down the football chain. There will be a higher percentage of experienced players at the better schools. There are the same number of kids at each school getting the same education at that school. Only difference is more kids will start out getting an education at a "lesser" football school and then move on to an education at a "greater" football school later on in college.

Seems to me there will be a greater gap between HS 5 stars, and HS 3 stars. As players transfer out of factories to get playing time, they will eat scholarships that often went to 3 stars at lesser football schools like ours (lesser than traditional factories). Factories will backfill with proven, more developed talent from us, and a more select crop of 5 stars. The potential benefit is that we will have more opportunities for higher ranked HS players looking for a seat, but IMO hurts the 3 stars and diamonds in the rough from being seen or developed.

 

[NJCuse97]

For sure. Having kids changing schools isn't optimal for them or for football fans. But what is optimal for the players is them getting a stake in college $ from NIL.

I guess I kind of wish the NCAA opened up NIL for players sake but wish they didn't allow players to play immediately when transferring. Seems like kids would still get paid but at least that would limit the number that transfer a bit. Sure you can transfer and possibly get paid more NIL money but the player has to decide if its worth it to wait a year to play in games. Also the big boys would be less inclined to take transfers as that is a scholarship used that can't play for a year.

Kids aren’t getting “college $” because while schools and conferences are still signing huge TV deals, they are actually not allowed to share it with players. If anything this shifts all that responsibility to the boosters. What is likely to suffer is the facilities and support systems, because I assume schools feel reduced pressure to wow prospects with these baubles, and they will also see a drop in the donations that fund those projects. The kids only want money and fame it seems and that is now in the hands of boosters paying directly for services, which increases TV value, increasing exposure for the athlete. If anything schools are getting wealthier because they don’t have as much need to spend revenue on facilities (more profit). Perhaps this isn’t too different from how it always was, but this can now be a plan or strategy rather than hope that you don’t get caught, or hope my toys are better than the other guy’s.

 

[All4SU]

Designating Spring enrollees with a dollar sign is such a sign of the times

Hahaha!

 

[CbusCuse]

Seems to me there will be a greater gap between HS 5 stars, and HS 3 stars. As players transfer out of factories to get playing time, they will eat scholarships that often went to 3 stars at lesser football schools like ours (lesser than traditional factories). Factories will backfill with proven, more developed talent from us, and a more select crop of 5 stars. The potential benefit is that we will have more opportunities for higher ranked HS players looking for a seat, but IMO hurts the 3 stars and diamonds in the rough from being seen or developed.

If a 5 star or 4 star for that matter leaves a greater schools and goes to a lesser schools like Syracuse, yes they would likely be taking a spot from a typical 3 star freshman at Syracuse. But that greater school still needs to fill that spot they lost. Its either filled by another freshman or they are filling with lets say a 3 star kid who panned out well from a lesser school like us. Then the less school still needs to fill that spot. There will still need to be the same number of freshman coming into colleges every year. The overall numbers don't change. What changes is just which schools these kids are playing at. What is hurting the 3 star players and diamonds in the rough from being seen or developed?

Also if the bigger schools keep losing younger players to the portal moving down to lesser teams and are likely filling with more senior type of players from lesser schools, that means that better freshman are now going to be available at lesser schools because the big time football schools are not taking as many freshman.

 

[CbusCuse]

Kids aren’t getting “college $” because while schools and conferences are still signing huge TV deals, they are actually not allowed to share it with players. If anything this shifts all that responsibility to the boosters. What is likely to suffer is the facilities and support systems, because I assume schools feel reduced pressure to wow prospects with these baubles, and they will also see a drop in the donations that fund those projects. The kids only want money and fame it seems and that is now in the hands of boosters paying directly for services, which increases TV value, increasing exposure for the athlete. If anything schools are getting wealthier because they don’t have as much need to spend revenue on facilities (more profit). Perhaps this isn’t too different from how it always was, but this can now be a plan or strategy rather than hope that you don’t get caught, or hope my toys are better than the other guy’s.

True they are not getting the school's direct profit from college athletics. They are getting NIL marketing money which could easily be seen as booster money. Maybe there will be reduced booster money going to facilities as some of this money will go direct to "NIL" or the players. This in my opinion is not a bad thing. Have the universities pay more for some of the facilities. They are the ones profiting from the athletic program. And trying to keep up with some of the facilities seems to be getting kind of crazy and unnecessary I think.

 

[PhatOrange]

Alabama's Nick Saban rejected 2 players who were searching for $1.3 million combined in NIL money: report

The Alabama Crimson Tide football team lost a top recruit and a starter due to hefty requests for NIL money, head coach Nick Saban reportedly said.

www.foxnews.com

 

[OrangeAl]

Alabama's Nick Saban rejected 2 players who were searching for $1.3 million combined in NIL money: report

The Alabama Crimson Tide football team lost a top recruit and a starter due to hefty requests for NIL money, head coach Nick Saban reportedly said.

www.foxnews.com

Saban talks like he's in control of NIL payments. And, maybe he is!

 

[PhatOrange]

Saban talks like he's in control of NIL payments. And, maybe he is!

I mean if players are asking him for 800k then I guess he is. He certainly would put the wheels in motion to get it done. I love the fact that he told those kids to go kick rocks.

 

[NYCCuse826]

Saban talks like he's in control of NIL payments. And, maybe he is!

There's NIL and then there's what looks like extortion. The kid had a handler say they want 800K and ended up getting his offer pulled.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Saban talks like he's in control of NIL payments. And, maybe he is!

Saban’s management of boosters is a major reason for their decade and a half of sustained success.