2023-24 NHL Season Thread

[tbonezone]

islanders down the canes 3-2 in 2XOT.

 

[jncuse]

And this post summarizes the ignorance of those who can't lay large blame on the Core 4 Forwards in Toronto. You want to know one of the prime reasons your D and Goalie Sucks. Because you have limited financial resources to spend on them. That doesn't mean everything was done well putting them together either.

You can overcome that, IF the players you spent the majority of $ resources on perform to expectations. But those core 4 forwards. they always fall a bit short or often way short.

 

[OburgOrange]

And this post summarizes the ignorance of those who can't lay large blame on the Core 4 Forwards in Toronto. You want to know one of the prime reasons your D and Goalie Sucks. Because you have limited financial resources to spend on them. That doesn't mean everything was done well putting them together either.

You can overcome that, IF the players you spent the majority of $ resources on perform to expectations. But those core 4 forwards. they always fall a bit short or often way short.

Same storey year after year with the leafs. No grit, no D, and no goaltending. Goaltending wins cups

 

[Cusefan95]

And this post summarizes the ignorance of those who can't lay large blame on the Core 4 Forwards in Toronto. You want to know one of the prime reasons your D and Goalie Sucks. Because you have limited financial resources to spend on them. That doesn't mean everything was done well putting them together either.

You can overcome that, IF the players you spent the majority of $ resources on perform to expectations. But those core 4 forwards. they always fall a bit short or often way short.

I think the reason why people don’t want to blame the core 4 is simple - once you’ve concluded the core 4 is the primary blame for playoff shortcomings (again?), you’re left with two options:

1) Try again with the same core but hope for a different result next year (which is the definition of insanity).

2) Conclude this team can’t win a cup as constructed, start to dismantle and go through a rebuild.

Unless someone is fully committed to a rebuild, they are either going to find an alternative scapegoat - or they are going to advocate for an insane position.

 

[Cowtown]

Wild finish in Nashville tonight. Canucks down 2 with two minutes to go. tie it up, win it a minute into OT. With their third string goalie. I like the Canucks, but I wasn't sure they had that kind of starch.

 

[kirbivore]

The Winnipeg goalie will have the most empty award since 1995 David Robinson got abused by Hakeem.

 

[Cusefan95]

I thought the Tampa goal which Florida successfully challenged last night was obvious interference, the goal which was called interference and Tampa lost the challenge was closer but unlikely to be overturned. Curious what others thought.

Cooper complaining about it after the game was to be expected, but he went in a weird direction and ended up at “the league wants more goals so we should allow uncalled interference in the playoffs - goalies should get beat up just like the players”. Great coach, I get his frustration and agree with some of his issue -but it really shows how asking questions of people after a tough loss when they haven’t had a chance to formulate the idea in their head before speaking is an odd and imho unfair expectation we hold coaches and athletes to.

 

[tbonezone]

islanders canes tied 3-3 going into the 3rd.
varlamov misplays a face-off and basically gifts the hurricanes the series.
isles lose 3-6 .

 

[STEVEHOLT]

And the leafs manage to blow another 3rd period game 7 lead

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I thought the Tampa goal which Florida successfully challenged last night was obvious interference, the goal which was called interference and Tampa lost the challenge was closer but unlikely to be overturned. Curious what others thought.

Cooper complaining about it after the game was to be expected, but he went in a weird direction and ended up at “the league wants more goals so we should allow uncalled interference in the playoffs - goalies should get beat up just like the players”. Great coach, I get his frustration and agree with some of his issue -but it really shows how asking questions of people after a tough loss when they haven’t had a chance to formulate the idea in their head before speaking is an odd and imho unfair expectation we hold coaches and athletes to.

One of the two was pretty weak in so far as that puck was going in whether goalie was contacted or not

 

[OburgOrange]

And the leafs manage to blow another 3rd period game 7 lead

I watched the overtime goal replay about 10 times. If Samsonov comes out about 5 feet from his crease, he intercepts that bounce pass off the backboard and Pasternak doesn’t score. He stayed deep in his net. Also, Reilly got beat to the puck, never should have happened on a dump in

 

[Cusefan95]

One of the two was pretty weak in so far as that puck was going in whether goalie was contacted or not

The rule isn’t written to say contact isn’t allowed…but you can ignore that if the goal was going to go in anyway. I think that’s what Cooper was implying should have been done, but even he realized that’s not what the rule is - which is why he went down the path of talking about how games are officiated differently in the playoffs and that particular play should have been as well.

 

[Cusefan95]

I watched the overtime goal replay about 10 times. If Samsonov comes out about 5 feet from his crease, he intercepts that bounce pass off the backboard and Pasternak doesn’t score. He stayed deep in his net. Also, Reilly got beat to the puck, never should have happened on a dump in

Watching it live and seeing Reilly not go after the puck in the corner, I thought that was the biggest issue. I thought Leafs outplayed Boston, but one defensive mental lapse cost them the game and the series.

Will be a very interesting offseason; I think they’ll be looking to move at least one of the core four to get a stellar d-man…but the no-trade clauses might make it impossible to get value back.

 

[jncuse]

How is Marner not getting a lot of blame for the last play? It was clearly his man. He was 4 feet ahead of Pastrnak at the red line when covering him, and then totally loses him coming out of the neutral zone.

No different than a breakout 3 on 3 play, if a forward loses his man coming through the blue line, the coverage blame is not on the D.

 

[jncuse]

I watched the overtime goal replay about 10 times. If Samsonov comes out about 5 feet from his crease, he intercepts that bounce pass off the backboard and Pasternak doesn’t score. He stayed deep in his net. Also, Reilly got beat to the puck, never should have happened on a dump in

Reilly got beat to the puck, because Marner didn't cover his man through the neutral zone. It's more on Marner, with some on Reilly IMO. It's his man through the neutral zone and through the blue line. If Marner at least gives Pastrnak a minor bump or rub as he blows by him, Reilly might have beat him. Or better yet Marner keeps pace with him to the corner.

POST EDIT - I watched the play again in real time a few times, and I concluded Samsonov should have been able to do a quick swipe there. I'm guessing he thought there would be some coverage elsewhere.

I'm back and forth on if Samsonov could have done something (in the end not absolving him nor blaming him, just not sure) -- looks more convincing that he could have done something when you watch in slow motion. In real time, not sure. I know Hrudey blamed him, and Hrudey is generally not that critical, so that carries some real credence.

But a dump into that corner at that angle at times can be no man's land for a goalie to a degree, because you don't know exactly how it will come out. A foot deeper or shorter hitting the boards, and the puck bounces totally differently. So he can't really move out and make a preliminary read, and it then becomes purely a reaction to the bounce which was a quick one.

It was a good set play by Boston, made easier by Marner's wandering mind.

 

[jncuse]

Watching it live and seeing Reilly not go after the puck in the corner, I thought that was the biggest issue. I thought Leafs outplayed Boston, but one defensive mental lapse cost them the game and the series.

Will be a very interesting offseason; I think they’ll be looking to move at least one of the core four to get a stellar d-man…but the no-trade clauses might make it impossible to get value back.

In a cap world, where you are constantly up against the cap, you don't necessarily need fair trade value back. Creating cap space alone, allows you to retain some players that you otherwise couldn't, or flexibility in FA or making other trades. I think with Mitch though, it might not even be about value he may be hard headed and refuse to waive. But assuming he does.

Matthews and Nylander are fine as the two core offensive stalwarts. Give Treliving a chance to try to balance the rest of the lineup out, even with less top end talent, and the Leafs can be as competitive or nearly as competitive in the regular season... and perhaps more competitive in the playoffs as Mitch Marner never delivers fair value in the playoffs.

 

[jncuse]

I think the interesting play will be Tavares. The Leafs do have some leverage to play with here as they can make a decision that costs Tavares nearly $3.7 million. As it is the last year of his contract, they can buy out Tavares which would save about $7.3 million in cap space next year (although would eat up 3.6M in 2025-2026).

The Leafs can tell Tavares he has 2 options:

1) You either waive your NMC and we are able to explore trades with you.
or
2) We buy you out, and you lose $3.7 million dollars.

Now trading Tavares with say 50% retention might not net you much. But that $5.5m of cap savings might get you a better player than Tavares for 2024/2025.

Tavares might actually need that $3.7 million given his current tax difficulties, due to the ridiculous advice he took from his tax accountants. He owes the CRA $18 million right now.

Strike the Above! Leafs have no buyout leverage.

Well I was totally wrong on the buyout. Since Tavares has so much bonuses paid up front (on signing and beginning of each year), his base salary for 2024/2025 is only $900K, and the Leafs would only save about $300K by buying him out.

 

[Cowtown]

I watched the overtime goal replay about 10 times. If Samsonov comes out about 5 feet from his crease, he intercepts that bounce pass off the backboard and Pasternak doesn’t score. He stayed deep in his net. Also, Reilly got beat to the puck, never should have happened on a dump in

Reilly certainly got caught watching instead of playing.

 

[OburgOrange]

Reilly certainly got caught watching instead of playing.

Marner did to. Pasternak was his man going into the D zone and just let him waltz by. Plenty of blame to go around

 

[Cowtown]

Marner did to. Pasternak was his man going into the D zone and just let him waltz by. Plenty of blame to go around

Teams have their own defensive schemes, so it's hard to generalize. But most teams, through the neutral zone, try to funnel the puck carrier into a turnover, while cutting off passing lanes. I watched it a few times and didn't get to see the whole ice. But my guess is Pasternak came a little harder thru the neutral zone because he knew that play was on, and it surprised everyone. To that end, the dump in was perfect. Boston (whom I loathe) just made a great play in a huge moment.

I also thought through the game the Toronto players didn't create as much neutral zone interference as Boston was doing, so that could be where Marner was somewhat remiss?

 

[OburgOrange]

Teams have their own defensive schemes, so it's hard to generalize. But most teams, through the neutral zone, try to funnel the puck carrier into a turnover, while cutting off passing lanes. I watched it a few times and didn't get to see the whole ice. But my guess is Pasternak came a little harder thru the neutral zone because he knew that play was on, and it surprised everyone. To that end, the dump in was perfect. Boston (whom I loathe) just made a great play in a huge moment.

I also thought through the game the Toronto players didn't create as much neutral zone interference as Boston was doing, so that could be where Marner was somewhat remiss?

Marner is remiss in a lot of areas. Plays like he has a dozen eggs in his pockets ( thanks Grapes), and he doesn’t show up on the scoresheet. Add that to being a defensive liability…… Playoff hockey isn’t his thing

 

[Cowtown]

Marner is remiss in a lot of areas. Plays like he has a dozen eggs in his pockets ( thanks Grapes), and he doesn’t show up on the scoresheet. Add that to being a defensive liability…… Playoff hockey isn’t his thing

There are generally two ways to construct a team. One is for the regular season in which you play a different team every game, half of whom are in the bottom half of the league, and none of who, make the playoffs. I call that "the nice game: skate, pass, shoot." Fast, higher scoring teams dominating the middle of the ice with speed. Think: Toews/Kane era Blackhawks. The other way is to have a bigger, somewhat slower team that keeps the puck along the boards and in the corners - out of the middle of the ice - and prospers in the heavier going that happens in the playoffs. Think: Sutter era LA kings.

Marner seems to be more disposed to the former style. A problem the Leafs have is the media gurgles and slobbers over him like he's something approaching McDavid or MacKinnon, and the fans seem to have bought in.

 

[OburgOrange]

I’ve always liked Berube. Hope he is the next coach

 

[Cowtown]

I’ve always liked Berube. Hope he is the next coach

Back in the day, I played fastball against his dad and uncles. I was with Spruce Grove, they were in Calahoo.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

How is Marner not getting a lot of blame for the last play? It was clearly his man. He was 4 feet ahead of Pastrnak at the red line when covering him, and then totally loses him coming out of the neutral zone.

No different than a breakout 3 on 3 play, if a forward loses his man coming through the blue line, the coverage blame is not on the D.

They all screwed up. Samsonov just puts hit stick out it never gets to the ass hat . Instead he retreated even deeper into his net like the delicate flower he is.