3 Rings 9 years

[dasher]

Sure, I suppose. The Williams case is an interesting one because everyone can agree it's a phenomenal accomplishment and ridiculous to even comprehend. But it was also 70+ years ago. The game and, of course, the world has changed so much that I'm just not sure it's possible to try and compare and contrast the careers of williams and guys like tony gwynn or jeter or whomever.

Williams also hit .388 at the age of 37 in 1957 or '58

 

[billsin01]

Williams also hit .388 at the age of 37 in 1957 or '58

Yeah, clearly a phenomenal player. No one can argue against that

 

[Guinness]

As for PEDs, do fans really care that these guys are going to whatever extent they can to be the best possible players they can be? Really?

Drives me crazy.

The ones that drive me crazy the most are the old timers who ignore all the pills the players in the 50's and 60's took while railing on the steroids guys.

The game has always been dirty on some level.

 

[DNABB5]

The ones that drive me crazy the most are the old timers who ignore all the pills the players in the 50's and 60's took while railing on the steroids guys.

The game has always been dirty on some level.

Right. People forget that ephedra was legal and used BY EVERYONE. Trust me, that trucker crack is definately a PED.

Here is a little ESPN story about baseball and amphetamines published after the death of Oriole's pitcher Steve Bechler

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2225013

 

[Cowtown]

The ones that drive me crazy the most are the old timers who ignore all the pills the players in the 50's and 60's took while railing on the steroids guys.

The game has always been dirty on some level.

US soldiers (and probably others) used amphetamines during WWII, so it was a short leap for players to see their use in professional sports. Over-the-counter diet pills during the 50's are the earliest recollection I have for hearing about drugs in baseball. I think I read about that in Ball Four.

 

[Ghost]

I think it's crazy that this has become a talking point. It's an argument based on allegations.
He didn't admit to using anything. He refuted those allegations.

A weak NYT article said he's on a list. That's not failing a test. That's just a reporter saying he was on a list.
Also, the number of players on the list is greater than the number of positive tests.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/08/mlbpa_statement.html

Considering his body frame has basically remained the same over the past 10 years as have his batting stats, considering there's no evidence that he ever tested positive, this accusation is as weak as Bud Light.

Huh? Have you seen his numbers from 2008-2010? He probably couldn't get around on my fastball inside, much less a professional - then, bam, a miraculous Roger Clemens type revival for Big Papi. Can't throw past him now. Again, take away the big smile, and cutesy nickname and EVERYONE would be crying foul.

I mean, I'm no expert, but has ARod ever tested positive?

 

[dasher]

Huh? Have you seen his numbers from 2008-2010? He probably couldn't get around on my fastball inside, much less a professional - then, bam, a miraculous Roger Clemens type revival for Big Papi. Can't throw past him now. Again, take away the big smile, and cutesy nickname and EVERYONE would be crying foul.

I mean, I'm no expert, but has ARod ever tested positive?

well, if you are going to accuse ortiz, arod was on the same list. Plus, he is tested all the time. Including in this past playoffs and world series. And of course, unlike arod, ortiz has never been tied to balco or the florida swamp or anywhere else . I'm not saying he isn't using. Just that all of the arod rump kissers pull this old line about arod never failing a test. Using that guideline, neither has ortiz

 

[Ghost]

well, if you are going to accuse ortiz, arod was on the same list. Plus, he is tested all the time. Including in this past playoffs and world series. And of course, unlike arod, ortiz has never been tied to balco or the florida swamp or anywhere else . I'm not saying he isn't using. Just that all of the arod rump kissers pull this old line about arod never failing a test. Using that guideline, neither has ortiz

Oh, I'm not saying ARod never used - I'm quite certain he did. Just saying that he never failed a test. I think the majority of players are guilty of using at some point (probably) - the way they even test pretty much guarantees most people don't come up positive unless they're an imbecile.

Normal players get old, like Ken Griffey did. Then you have people like Clemens, or Ortiz who miraculously turn 25 again after a few years of diminished play. I don't really care, but I think it's pretty funny when people say Ortiz isn't using. I just don't think players at his age go downhill that fast over a three year period, and then, BAM, turn back the clock! 98 mph fastball, I have the bat-speed to hit that again!! Good for me! Just don't think it happens like that - naturally.

If I'm a player, I would use, so I don't even fault Ortiz, ARod, or anyone else. I guess my point is, if ARod suddenly got good again next year, and his batspeed was back to where it was 5 years ago and he's getting around on everyone - every single person would laugh. Cuz Ortiz is adorable, people pretend it's not the same thing.

 

[dasher]

Oh, I'm not saying ARod never used - I'm quite certain he did. Just saying that he never failed a test. I think the majority of players are guilty of using at some point (probably) - the way they even test pretty much guarantees most people don't come up positive unless they're an imbecile.

Normal players get old, like Ken Griffey did. Then you have people like Clemens, or Ortiz who miraculously turn 25 again after a few years of diminished play. I don't really care, but I think it's pretty funny when people say Ortiz isn't using. I just don't think players at his age go downhill that fast over a three year period, and then, BAM, turn back the clock! 98 mph fastball, I have the bat-speed to hit that again!! Good for me! Just don't think it happens like that - naturally.

If I'm a player, I would use, so I don't even fault Ortiz, ARod, or anyone else. I guess my point is, if ARod suddenly got good again next year, and his batspeed was back to where it was 5 years ago and he's getting around on everyone - every single person would laugh. Cuz Ortiz is adorable, people pretend it's not the same thing.

Might have something to do with arod being trash and ortiz being a stand up guy, sure. But even if arod came back racking, he still wouldn't hit in the clutch like Ortiz.