30 for 30. For real?

[storange]

The Big East piece was, as everybody has observed, just outstanding.

The Georgetown AD confirmed the short-sighted perspective of the BB schools - "why should their problem be my problem?"

Or, the AD simply confirmed that the end result - the establishment of the Catholic School BB Only Conference we now see - is what he and the other to votes wanted all along.

I would like to know more about that strange non-conference conference - the ECAC.

What was it it exactly?

Was it simply a vehicle for adminstering/scheduling the Olympic sports, which in some respects included BB back then??

Loose organization of northeast independents, for awhile ECAC had regional tournaments for an NCAA berth at that time you would have to say our rival was St Bonaventure who we seemed to face in the final each year.

 

[OrangePA]

Loose organization of northeast independents, for awhile ECAC had regional tournaments for an NCAA berth at that time you would have to say our rival was St Bonaventure who we seemed to face in the final each year.

Yes, I'm familiar with the basics.

I would like to know more of the details.

Who created it?

Why was it created?

Who ran it?

What did it do exactly?

 

[All4SU]

I always said Syracuse was the Big East, at least moreso then any other BE school. 2011 we killed any chance of BE survival. I'm sure of that. BC was less ethical in the way they went about things but who cares anymore. Like it was said in the film, in the last years ADs had Mikey T on one line and the Big 10 or ACC on the other, kind of disgusting, and we were part of it.

Agree that SU was central to the BE. But the league was doomed the day Miami and VT left. The writing was on the wall.

 

[All4SU]

any intelligent thoughts as to why Crouthamel wasnt in it?? i wouldve loved to hear his perspective. gtown had the prez and JT, so having 2 Cuse guys, 1 being a BIG football guy wouldve been ap pro po. it was definetly slanted towards telling the woe is me hoop side, but i still think a little of him wouldve been good.

I'm guessing the reason JC wasn't interviewed is the most obvious reason...he turned them down. The guy had so little ego as AD at SU, he probably just didn't want to be part of the story.

 

[storange]

Loose organization of northeast independents, for awhile ECAC had regional tournaments for an NCAA berth at that time you would have to say our rival was St Bonaventure who we seemed to face in the final each year.

I thought you knew from your posts, I just wasn't sure you were old enough to remember those days

 

[CusefanATL]

any intelligent thoughts as to why Crouthamel wasnt in it?? i wouldve loved to hear his perspective. gtown had the prez and JT, so having 2 Cuse guys, 1 being a BIG football guy wouldve been ap pro po. it was definetly slanted towards telling the woe is me hoop side, but i still think a little of him wouldve been good.

He and Buzz probably told ESPN to get a life.

 

[storange]

Can't help but think if they had got the 6th vote and PSU was in the BE would it have survived.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Can't help but think if they had got the 6th vote and PSU was in the BE would it have survived.

PSU in the Big East would have ended JoePa's dream "all-sports" conference in its' tracks.

However, it wouldn't have immediately solved the BE's impending football problem. 6 of the 8 BE teams back in early 80's were non FBS football schools. Even with adding PSU, the "basketball onlys" would still have had a 6-3 voting majority. And with PSU in the fold, they would have never voted in Pitt.

What would have been the next move?

In the late 80's, after PSU announced their plans to join the B1G ... SU, BC, and Pitt threatened to leave the BE for the proposed Metro Superconference, and that was the impetus the BE needed to invite Miami and get into the FB business.

Could the BE have started up a FB conference profitable enough to keep PSU from leaving anyways?

Or would AD's like the guy from Georgetown have insisted that FB wasn't their problem, and history would have played out exactly the same (PSU to the B1G, SU, and BC threatening to leave, and Miami & Co coming in)?

What if the B1G invited PSU and SU? PSU and Pitt? All four of us?

 

[Chip]

Agree that SU was central to the BE. But the league was doomed the day Miami and VT left. The writing was on the wall.

It was definitely lower tier, but it really hung around for awhile. There were many factors, and on the football side we certainly didn't do our part during those dark times. We were obviously still a brand name though, which is why we survived it.

Once we left, the league crumbled. Almost instantly. Yeah, they were still trying to fortify the doors and windows, but none of that ever held up. I think Boise State was in the league formally on 3 different occasions in that short span.

 

[HtownOrange]

Miami was the hot big name school.
Syracuse was the heart and soul in both hoops and football.
Pitt was tradition laden but not in prime.
BC was a generally good team.
WVU was a hot/cold team but respectable.
VATech was a nobody in football before the Big East who parleyed panzy schedules for lots of wins and never beat the big boys
Rutgers was an automatic win
Temple was an automatic win

 

[Stern]

When Syr/Pitt announced they were going to the ACC that one Saturday a few years back, the following Monday Mike Tranghese went on WFAN with Mike Francesa and trashed SU big-time. There might be audio of it out there on youtube or something. He pretty much said the same thing Louie said. That Syracuse leaving "hurts"...because when they started the Big East and Syracuse built the Carrier Dome it was the one venue that no other conference had anything like and it made Syracuse special and unique in so many ways. Which is why the Big East conference always catered to Syracuse when it came to football and everything else Syracuse ever wanted. They knew they couldn't lose Syracuse because Syracuse not in a big urban city gave the conference the "image" of not being totally urban (remember this is the 80's and image mattered more than it does today). And what those old timers also know is that the Big 10 and Syracuse were flirting as far back as the 80's!! And not just on one occasion either. They were always talking. Syracuse always had one foot out the door ready to bolt the Big East if a better offer came along and for the long-time guys like Tranghese who watched Dave Gavitt and then himself give in to every wish Syracuse ever wanted to then see them bolt too like everyone else...that's why it hurts. That's why it hurts the old times like Louie, John Thompson, and Tranghese.

Pitt leaving, whatever they were late to the party. VT, Miami...who cares. BC leaving stings...but Syracuse leaving was the death-nail that hurt a lot of people.

 

[HtownOrange]

When Syr/Pitt announced they were going to the ACC that one Saturday a few years back, the following Monday Mike Tranghese went on WFAN with Mike Francesa and trashed SU big-time. There might be audio of it out there on youtube or something. He pretty much said the same thing Louie said. That Syracuse leaving "hurts"...because when they started the Big East and Syracuse built the Carrier Dome it was the one venue that no other conference had anything like and it made Syracuse special and unique in so many ways. Which is why the Big East conference always catered to Syracuse when it came to football and everything else Syracuse ever wanted. They knew they couldn't lose Syracuse because Syracuse not in a big urban city gave the conference the "image" of not being totally urban (remember this is the 80's and image mattered more than it does today). And what those old timers also know is that the Big 10 and Syracuse were flirting as far back as the 80's!! And not just on one occasion either. They were always talking. Syracuse always had one foot out the door ready to bolt the Big East if a better offer came along and for the long-time guys like Tranghese who watched Dave Gavitt and then himself give in to every wish Syracuse ever wanted to then see them bolt too like everyone else...that's why it hurts. That's why it hurts the old times like Louie, John Thompson, and Tranghese.

Pitt leaving, whatever they were late to the party. VT, Miami...who cares. BC leaving stings...but Syracuse leaving was the death-nail that hurt a lot of people.

Some catering to Syracuse. When we needed football they gave us Temple. When we needed PSU they rejected JoePa out of hand. When we could have had FSU, Miami, PSU, WVU, VATech, ECU, possibly USC east, they had no vision or bothered to meet our concerns. That is why Syracuse kept their options open and why the ACC and BigTen were in close contact.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Some catering to Syracuse. When we needed football they gave us Temple. When we needed PSU they rejected JoePa out of hand. When we could have had FSU, Miami, PSU, WVU, VATech, ECU, possibly USC east, they had no vision or bothered to meet our concerns. That is why Syracuse kept their options open and why the ACC and BigTen were in close contact.

When we wanted to expand, they gave us Villanova.

 

[Cusefan95]

I remember Mike T working his hardest to make sure we went to bowl games when we were bowl eligible.

Wait, I think I have that wrong.

Mike T, he's totally full of sheet

 

[HtownOrange]

When we wanted to expand, they gave us Villanova.

How could I forget? :bang:

 

[TheCusian]

No, because that thread turned into a racial/political debate which was unnecessary. That 10 page thread is why civil discourse in the country is declining. Nowadays, every debate typically has 1 person who wants bring crap into a debate that makes its annoying, and for the record in that thread I don't think that person was you.

Civil discourse means that you can talk about race, politics, basketball - without hating each other. That thread largely was civil and interesting. Sport is in the world - it's not separate from those things.

The only the wrong with that discourse - was that people thought it was hijacked and were afraid to talk about hard things. Or incapable of talking about them maturely.

Now quick - my take on the football thing:

The popularity of football and the growing TV money was out of whack with what they thought the heart of the league was. Didn't change fast enough. Influx and popularity in the first bunch of years was fools gold. Those that voted against Penn St thought it was real. Misjudgment and short sighted thinking is what killed the Big East. I'm glad that our school had the foresight to see it and acted when they did.

 

[rrlbees]

No, because that thread turned into a racial/political debate which was unnecessary. That 10 page thread is why civil discourse in the country is declining. Nowadays, every debate typically has 1 person who wants bring crap into a debate that makes its annoying, and for the record in that thread I don't think that person was you.

Wasn't asking you. Was asking the OP which you should see I also told him I was busting his chops, which I often do since we are friends except when he is on the soccer field refereeing.

 

[Toga]

Wasn't asking you. Was asking the OP which you should see I also told him I was busting his chops, which I often do since we are friends except when he is on the soccer field refereeing.

Be honest - has he lost a step on the soccer pitch?

 

[rrlbees]

Be honest - has he lost a step on the soccer pitch?

Without a doubt.

 

[All4SU]

Without a doubt.

 

[Hoo's That]

You folks were supposed to leave in 2003 (pre-Va governor's meddling). What would Mike T have said then if that had happened?

 

[SWC75]

The Big East piece was, as everybody has observed, just outstanding.

The Georgetown AD confirmed the short-sighted perspective of the BB schools - "why should their problem be my problem?"

Or, the AD simply confirmed that the end result - the establishment of the Catholic School BB Only Conference we now see - is what he and the other two votes wanted all along.

I would like to know more about that strange non-conference conference - the ECAC.

What was it it exactly?

Was it simply a vehicle for adminstering/scheduling the Olympic sports, which in some respects included BB back then??

The ECAC still is: it's sort of an umbrella organization for eastern schools that doesn't really funciton as a trational conferecne. It's more like an eastern NCAA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_College_Athletic_Conference

 

[SWC75]

any intelligent thoughts as to why Crouthamel wasnt in it?? i wouldve loved to hear his perspective. gtown had the prez and JT, so having 2 Cuse guys, 1 being a BIG football guy wouldve been ap pro po. it was definetly slanted towards telling the woe is me hoop side, but i still think a little of him wouldve been good.

I think the focus was simply on the coaches and commissioners, which is too bad. The role of the AD's and college presidents in creating and maintain the conference was not acknowledged. The show made it sound as if the conference was just the product ofg Dave Gavitt wrangling the basketball coaches. it doesn't happen without the administrators.

 

[SWC75]

As I noted in the other thread, I have always wondered what might have happened if the eastern football schools had formed one conference and the basketball schools another and they had an agreement to play a certain number of non-conference games or even an annual "challenge" with the other.

FOOTBALL

Boston College, Syracuse, Army, Navy, Rutgers, Temple, Penn State, Pittsburgh, West Virginia. Possibly could expanded later to include Virginia Tech, Cincinnati, Lousiville, etc. in a 12 team league.

BASKETBALL

East: Holy Cross, Providence, Massachusetts, Connecticut, St. John's, Seton Hall
West: Georgetown, Villanova, St. Joseph's, LaSalle, Duquense, St. Bonaventure

At the internal division between the football and basketball schools wouldn't be there.

 

[longtimefan]

I think the focus was simply on the coaches and commissioners, which is too bad. The role of the AD's and college presidents in creating and maintain the conference was not acknowledged. The show made it sound as if the conference was just the product ofg Dave Gavitt wrangling the basketball coaches. it doesn't happen without the administrators.

Well, there were 4 AD's there at the birth--Gavitt (Providence), Rienzo (GT), Kaiser (StJ), and Crouthamel (SU). Rienzo and Kaiser were both in the film. Gavitt is deceased. I would like to have heard "Jake's Take" (although he has written about it in the past).

And both Thompson and Carnesseca admitted they didn't like the idea, and had to be dragged along. For some reason, I don't remember where JB stood on joining a conference. But, he was only in his third year when this all came about, so maybe he wasn't comfortable enough to speak out.