A Couple Of Facts...

[Bill Orange]

1) I have personally known Jimmy and Bernie since 1977. They were not close friends. They were not social friends. They did not socialize together. Their wives were not friends. Bernie was an assistant/associate coach on a team coached by Jimmy. That was the extent of their relationship. Jimmy saying "I've known him for 50 years" does not make him a close friend or "a buddy" as some have reported.

2) Jimmy's "liar" statement was directed at Davis' allegation that Jimmy had witnessed Davis and Bernie doing something inappropriate in Bernie's room. Davis has subsequently withdrawn that allegation and has said it was not true. If Davis had not made that allegation, Jimmy would not have used the word "liar." He was responding to something that he empirically knew was not true. Should he have said it the way he did? Absolutely not. But he was furious to see his name drawn into such a story, and he responded, on the spur of the moment, to something that he knew was a lie.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[cuseguy]

1) I have personally known Jimmy and Bernie since 1977. They were not close friends. They were not social friends. They did not socialize together. Their wives were not friends. Bernie was an assistant/associate coach on a team coached by Jimmy. That was the extent of their relationship. Jimmy saying "I've known him for 50 years" does not make him a close friend or "a buddy" as some have reported.

2) Jimmy's "liar" statement was directed at Davis' allegation that Jimmy had witnessed Davis and Bernie doing something inappropriate in Bernie's room. Davis has subsequently withdrawn that allegation and has said it was not true. If Davis had not made that allegation, Jimmy would not have used the word "liar." He was responding to something that he empirically knew was not true. Should he have said it the way he did? Absolutely not. But he was furious to see his name drawn into such a story, and he responded, on the spur of the moment, to something that he knew was a lie.

Just my 2 cents.

We were waiting for you to give your 2 cents. SUball

 

[stuckinbig11]

I see your 2 cents and raise you a nickel--good statement of the case. For some reason, the pundits do not bother to understand this, especially the part about why he used the term liar. We need to have O.J. Simpson escape from prison and take a drive in somebody's Bronco so the press will have something else to sensationalize.

 

[orange79]

Thanks, Bill. Good to know, especially point #1.

 

[orangefan13]

JB is still one of my role models. Always has been.

 

[Jeepers]

I think mentioning money is a bigger deal than calling them liars.

And why do they live across the street from each other then?

 

[jr4750]

Thanks Bill. I wish someone would state this about why JB used Liar and Davis's subsequent change of heart

 

[Bill Orange]

I think mentioning money is a bigger deal than calling them liars.

And why do they live across the street from each other then?

You would have to ask Bernie that question. Jim bought his home first.

 

[rrlbees]

Actually he used liar more than that one time and he also said they were looking for money. The 2 are what had/has people upset.

Boeheim told ESPN: "I know this kid (Davis), but I never saw him in any rooms or anything. It is a bunch of a thousand lies that he has told. You don't think it is a little funny that his (relative) is coming forward?

"He supplied four names to the university that would corroborate his story. None of them did. … there is only one side to this story. He is lying."

Boeheim also questioned Davis' motives. "Why would he go to ESPN? What are people looking for here? I believe they are looking for money. I believe they saw what happened at Penn State and they are using ESPN to get money."

 

[Cuseregular]

me likes your 2 cents. Hang in there man

 

[Shenexon]

Perhaps those of you that have known Bernie for many years can provide some insight into the Fines? I can't recall hearing Bernie talk and other than seeing him on the bench for many years know little about him. Do the accusations make any sense to you?

 

[orangenirvana]

Actually he used liar more than that one time and he also said they were looking for money. The 2 are what had/has people upset.

Boeheim told ESPN: "I know this kid (Davis), but I never saw him in any rooms or anything. It is a bunch of a thousand lies that he has told. You don't think it is a little funny that his (relative) is coming forward?

"He supplied four names to the university that would corroborate his story. None of them did. … there is only one side to this story. He is lying."

Boeheim also questioned Davis' motives. "Why would he go to ESPN? What are people looking for here? I believe they are looking for money. I believe they saw what happened at Penn State and they are using ESPN to get money."

But like Bill Orange said: "If Davis had not made that allegation (that Jimmy had witnessed Davis and Bernie doing something inappropriate in Bernie's room), Jimmy would not have used the word 'liar.'"

 

[rrlbees]

But like Bill Orange said: "If Davis had not made that allegation (that Jimmy had witnessed Davis and Bernie doing something inappropriate in Bernie's room), Jimmy would not have used the word 'liar.'"

Huh? The sentence below has nothing to do with the other. In this one he is calling his whole story a lie. And there is also the money comment.

"He supplied four names to the university that would corroborate his story. None of them did. … there is only one side to this story. He is lying."

 

[orangenirvana]

Huh? The sentence below has nothing to do with the other. In this one he is calling his whole story a lie. And there is also the money comment.

"He supplied four names to the university that would corroborate his story. None of them did. … there is only one side to this story. He is lying."

Deductive reasoning.

Boeheim knows for a fact Davis was lying about Boeheim seeing him in Fine's bed...therefore, Davis is a proven liar according to JB. So it is only reasonable that the liar must be lying about Fine abusing him as well.

Boeheim said himself "if (Davis) is lying about one thing, why not the other?"

 

[Carmelohnoudidnt]

Ask yourselves... Would you be thinking the same way if these allegations we're made against an assistant at another top school? How would you feel about it if the assistant at the other school lived across the street from the head coach of that school? Hmmm I'm guessing the tone on this board would be a whole lot different...

JB is a class guy, and I genuinely hope he survives this... But step back from your fandom for a minute and realize the seriousness of these allegations, and the impact of what BF may have done on the lives of these people.

And then consider the possibility that JB publicly called these people liars and money chasers...

 

[cliftonparksufan]

You would have to ask Bernie that question. Jim bought his home first.

I'm sure that Bernie's house will be available fairly soon. Rumor has it that Iggy is putting in the first offer.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

1) I have personally known Jimmy and Bernie since 1977. They were not close friends. They were not social friends. They did not socialize together. Their wives were not friends. Bernie was an assistant/associate coach on a team coached by Jimmy. That was the extent of their relationship. Jimmy saying "I've known him for 50 years" does not make him a close friend or "a buddy" as some have reported.

2) Jimmy's "liar" statement was directed at Davis' allegation that Jimmy had witnessed Davis and Bernie doing something inappropriate in Bernie's room. Davis has subsequently withdrawn that allegation and has said it was not true. If Davis had not made that allegation, Jimmy would not have used the word "liar." He was responding to something that he empirically knew was not true. Should he have said it the way he did? Absolutely not. But he was furious to see his name drawn into such a story, and he responded, on the spur of the moment, to something that he knew was a lie.

Just my 2 cents.

I respect that you obviously know Bernie and Jimmy better than I do.

But JB himself has stated that Bernie is a great, close friend. Bernie was just a team manager on the JB/Bing teams. It's not like Bernie was independently on track to become an SU coach by reason of his team manager job. Instead, JB made what looks like a fairly strange hire, from afar, by bringing in Fine. If they weren't good friends, why did JB hire Fine, when Fine was simply a team manager and briefly a high school coach. Did Fine light the high school basketball world on fire during his two years coaching varsity at Henninger? Even if there is some esoteric reason that JB hired Bernie, and it had nothing to do with friendship, the nation is not going to believe such a narrative. I'm not close enough to know, so I'm glad for your insight.

JB didn't simply say the hotel room incident was a lie. He said that Davis was telling a series of a thousand lies. I don't know why posters keep insisting that JB was only talking about the hotel room.

Lastly, I find it hard to believe that JB could be 100% positive that he never saw Davis in Fine's hotel room. If Davis was regularly around Fine, like family, with the team, on road trips, etc., it's very possible that JB did see Davis in Fine's room, and thought nothing of it. I know JB says he doesn't go to the hotel rooms of his assistants, but it's obvious that it could have happened and JB might have forgotten.

For JB to take the strong position that he did- by blaming the accusers of a thousand lies- JB was essentially arguing that he knows what happens around his program, he remembers his interactions with his assistant coaches, and he knows Fine well enough to know that these allegations cannot be true.

JB cannot simultaneously argue that he knew so much about the program and his assistants that he knew Davis was lying about multiple issues, but that he didn't know enough bout the program or his assistants to realize something was amiss with Bernie and Laurie.

 

[pearl31]

I respect that you obviously know Bernie and Jimmy better than I do.

But JB himself has stated that Bernie is a great, close friend. Bernie was just a team manager on the JB/Bing teams. It's not like Bernie was independently on track to become an SU coach by reason of his team manager job. Instead, JB made what looks like a fairly strange hire, from afar, by bringing in Fine. If they weren't good friends, why did JB hire Fine, when Fine was simply a team manager and briefly a high school coach. Did Fine light the high school basketball world on fire during his two years coaching varsity at Henninger? Even if there is some esoteric reason that JB hired Bernie, and it had nothing to do with friendship, the nation is not going to believe such a narrative. I'm not close enough to know, so I'm glad for your insight.

JB didn't simply say the hotel room incident was a lie. He said that Davis was telling a series of a thousand lies. I don't know why posters keep insisting that JB was only talking about the hotel room.

Lastly, I find it hard to believe that JB could be 100% positive that he never saw Davis in Fine's hotel room. If Davis was regularly around Fine, like family, with the team, on road trips, etc., it's very possible that JB did see Davis in Fine's room, and thought nothing of it. I know JB says he doesn't go to the hotel rooms of his assistants, but it's obvious that it could have happened and JB might have forgotten.

For JB to take the strong position that he did- by blaming the accusers of a thousand lies- JB was essentially arguing that he knows what happens around his program, he remembers his interactions with his assistant coaches, and he knows Fine well enough to know that these allegations cannot be true.

JB cannot simultaneously argue that he knew so much about the program and his assistants that he knew Davis was lying about multiple issues, but that he didn't know enough bout the program or his assistants to realize something was amiss with Bernie and Laurie.

thx. now go post this on Boneyard.

 

[MadNY3]

1) I have personally known Jimmy and Bernie since 1977. They were not close friends. They were not social friends. They did not socialize together. Their wives were not friends. Bernie was an assistant/associate coach on a team coached by Jimmy. That was the extent of their relationship. Jimmy saying "I've known him for 50 years" does not make him a close friend or "a buddy" as some have reported.

2) Jimmy's "liar" statement was directed at Davis' allegation that Jimmy had witnessed Davis and Bernie doing something inappropriate in Bernie's room. Davis has subsequently withdrawn that allegation and has said it was not true. If Davis had not made that allegation, Jimmy would not have used the word "liar." He was responding to something that he empirically knew was not true. Should he have said it the way he did? Absolutely not. But he was furious to see his name drawn into such a story, and he responded, on the spur of the moment, to something that he knew was a lie.

Just my 2 cents.

Understanding this, it makes me further believe that Boeheim's statements some 12 days ago were even more foolish given the situation.

Love, love, love what he has done and continues to do for Syracuse basketball, the community and cancer...but as I said then and will reiterate now is he made the situation worse. He could very be looking like a shocked victim in many ways now or at the very least, not look like a bully. His heart may have been in the right place, but his mouth was not.

Damn you Bernie and Laurie...

 

[310Pigpen]

All of the people that don't like JB are coming out of the woodwork now

 

[SaintTristan]

1) I have personally known Jimmy and Bernie since 1977. They were not close friends. They were not social friends. They did not socialize together. Their wives were not friends. Bernie was an assistant/associate coach on a team coached by Jimmy. That was the extent of their relationship. Jimmy saying "I've known him for 50 years" does not make him a close friend or "a buddy" as some have reported.

2) Jimmy's "liar" statement was directed at Davis' allegation that Jimmy had witnessed Davis and Bernie doing something inappropriate in Bernie's room. Davis has subsequently withdrawn that allegation and has said it was not true. If Davis had not made that allegation, Jimmy would not have used the word "liar." He was responding to something that he empirically knew was not true. Should he have said it the way he did? Absolutely not. But he was furious to see his name drawn into such a story, and he responded, on the spur of the moment, to something that he knew was a lie.

Just my 2 cents.

1. Thats interesting.
2. This is exactly what I have been saying. JB was fired up because of davis' accusation that JB knew. The lefties on this board assaulting JB need to put themselves in his shoes.

 

[dash-30-dash]

this isn't a left right issue. Cut it with that crap.

 

[Scooch]

I may be in the minority, but I can't muster the strength to care about anyone in particular at this point, aside from the victims (if they are in fact victims). I just want the facts to come out and the consequences to occur swiftly.

This saga is slow motion torture.

 

[kuethstheman]

1. Thats interesting.
2. This is exactly what I have been saying. JB was fired up because of davis' accusation that JB knew. The lefties on this board assaulting JB need to put themselves in his shoes.

I completely understand why he said it. I might have done the same. That doesn't change the fact that it was unacceptable and he has made himself a liability to SU. Not saying he should be fired but I would understand if the people charged with running the university do it. At the very least, he's got to apologize more strenuously than he did last night.

 

[Chip]

Understanding this, it makes me further believe that Boeheim's statements some 12 days ago were even more foolish given the situation.

Love, love, love what he has done and continues to do for Syracuse basketball, the community and cancer...but as I said then and will reiterate now is he made the situation worse. He could very be looking like a shocked victim in many ways now or at the very least, not look like a bully. His heart may have been in the right place, but his mouth was not.

Damn you Bernie and Laurie...

Yep, JB needed to control himself a little better. I don't blame him for being furious after hearing what Davis said and this being on the heels of JoePa. But he didn't need to come out swinging that hard, it just doesn't work in this public perception/media frenzy world. Just say I've known Bernie a long time and just can't believe this to be true. And then he could even give his comment that he thinks the kid isn't being truthful about his seeing them in Bernie's hotel room. Stop there. No thousand lies, no money grab.

In situations like this you can make your point with a cooler head. It would be pretty devastating to see him lose his job this way, especially because if he just dialed it down a notch, the entire focus of this is on Bernie, his wife, maybe the SPD and DA. But not on JB, and not on SU.