A little perspective here

[otto123]

I doubt that anyone here "hangs on (my) every word." I'm just another poster here who admits (in the interest of full disclosure) that I am friends with the Boeheim family. Would you prefer that I pretend I am a totally disinterested observer? I am sure that would get even more criticism. And I sort of resent the "rich" line. Yes, because I worked harder than anyone I knew, I've had some professional success in life. But I suspect not many on this board grew up in lesser economic circumstances than I did. The only reason I went to college is that Syracuse gave me a full scholarship. So, yes, I feel some loyalty there. And maybe I should not have mentioned my friend Ray. However, right before writing the original post last night, I had just read an email from his wife about his decision to forego any further attempts at medical intervention. I apologize that I was thinking about him... rather than fully focusing on SU basketball.

"But I suspect not many on this board grew up in lesser economic circumstances than I did" How do you know this? "Yes, because I worked harder than anyone I knew, I've had some professional success in life" So people that are not rich don't work hard? Most people are not handed full scholarships to SU maybe if they were they would be "rich" like you.

 

[SoBristol]

.....All of that changed in 2009, when my Dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. We used the 2009 season as a time to watch the games together and enjoy their the start of their magical run. SU games were away to get away from everything at least for a few hours. My Dad passed at the end of 2009. When SU lost to Butler, sure I was mad. But I slept well that night. I've learned the past couple of years that I have enough crappy things going on in life (like we all do. I am no different) to lose sleep over losses that I cannot control. Instead I like to think that sports is away to put real life situations on hold for a couple of hours.

...
...
...

The fact of the matter is that the SU Basketball Program has been an absolute joke this year. Between the child sex abuse scandal, Fab Take I, Drug Testing Scandal, followed by Fab Take II SU can't get out of the headlines. If people want to come to a message board to vent, I don't really see the problem with that. . ...

First, sorry about your dad.
People do need to keep some perspective.

There have been lots of positive stories from the SU basketball program this year -- 31-2 is not an absolute joke. Underclassmen like CJ, and a veteran like James have made a lot of progress as players. Scoop turned out to be a better person and leader than many imagined possible. Dion sparkled on the court at times, and turned himself into a team player and better person. The team kept its focus in difficult situations.

The scandals that came to surface are plenty bad, but arise from decades old events in the worst case, and past seasons in the other (no current players). Fab is a sorry case (his own making, letting down his teammates as well as his fans) -- have to admire SU for doing the right thing if Fab has failed his academic requirements.

Many more pluses than minuses with the current players.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

"But I suspect not many on this board grew up in lesser economic circumstances than I did" How do you know this? "Yes, because I worked harder than anyone I knew, I've had some professional success in life" So people that are not rich don't work hard? Most people are not handed full scholarships to SU maybe if they were they would be "rich" like you.

Grow up. You don't like rich people, I get it. Intelligent people can actually tell if their economic circumstances were poor or not. They can also tell how hard they work in comparison to those around them. I would guess her full scholarship was well earned. Your last statement is just pathetic and so wrong on so many levels. Smart, hardworking people have a tendency to become rich not a guarantee. Unlike you, I think that is a great thing.

 

[Noexcuse]

Looks like the venom is now starting to be directed at each other rather than Fab or JB. Not sure that is progress or not.

 

[thebigeast44]

It's interesting - I actually like both cto's post and millhouses's post. There can be divergent views here and it does not mean one is right and the other is wrong. I like the diversity of opinions on this site - it would be pretty boring if we all thought the same.

However, we're all more similar than different. Too often in life we focus on the differences and not our similarities. We all experience grief and difficult times. And we hope to experience some great times along the way. And some of those great times involve SU basketball. For many years, I've gone to games with my father and 2 close friends. Those are memories and times I cherish. When SU won it all in 2003, I shared the experience with others on our old board and made snow angels outside. It was an exciting moment! After all, in what other avenue in life do you find yourself jumping up and down full of excitement like sports? Not very many.

When the news Fab was ruled ineligible yesterday, I was not happy. I was looking forward to the tournament and the possibility we could win it all. My father and I were making plans to be together if they made the FF4. Those possibilities took a huge hit with Fab out. Many of the comments posted yesterday were just human nature - if you're emotionally invested in anything, you may react emotionally at first and temper those emotions later with upon further reflection.

I do not wish ill-will upon Fab. However, I feel for his teammates. He has let them down twice now. First, by not making the commitment to be in shape his freshman year. And second, by not making the commitment to succeed academically. It's too late to make up for either at this point. I hope he learns from this experience and makes better choices down the road or those closest to him will suffer.

As for all the stories that have come out this year about the program, I plan to wait until all the investigations are complete before making any judgments. JB and the program he has built deserve that much.

For those who've posted in this thread that they've lost loved ones or have friends or family going through difficult times right now, I wish you all best. I hope SU can make all of us smile during this tournament. And if things do not go our way, we'll always have 2003. Let's Go Orange!

 

[Cuse_MN]

Those called out by the jury analogy are those that don't need facts to go off the deep end. That seemed obvious.

Secondly you have completely missed the essence of what CTO was saying. There is a limit to what coaches can do. The last resort is usually suspension and thats exactly what happened to Melo. SU has had Sean Kerins, Hal Cohen, Sonny Spera (god am I dating myself) and others that used basketball to get their educations. The majority of the basketball players now days think they are going to the NBA via the colleges. If you think differently, you would be one of the few and you would be mistaken. The higher profile the school the more likely to have an entire roster of scholarship players that have this mindset. Think N Carolina, Kentucky (I hate thinking about them) The entire Michigan Fab 5. Heck just look at those that have left SU early to very early to jump to the NBA in the last several years. Is any of the original post clearer now? I hope so since you seem to be reasonable, unlike some of the cliff jumpers in this thread.

As far as your assumptions, you are probably right. The flaw in that is that BF drama was resurrected by ESPN from long ago and has been shredded to pieces since then. The drug issues were many years back and SU brought them to the attention of the NCAA over a year and a half ago. And back to Melo. Thats on Melo and looks like SU did use control and used the last resort when he failed/refused to live up to his obligations and suspended him.

Thanks for interpreting someone else's post for me. Do we really have thought police on this board?

Fab allegedly beat or physically intimidated a girl. Maybe its just me, but given that backdrop one more chance to be a member of the program would have been sufficient in my book, but instead he got more. Per the original poster, those in the know knew for "several months" that he was mocking the programs academic standards to the detriment of future teams based on the new rules. Kick him off the team long ago if that was the case. That's what I would have expected. Coaches can set examples whether you believe it or not and take action before the school does. I can give you plenty of examples where this has happened. I don't know the facts, but I'll give JB more credit if it was he who kicked Fab off the team but I doubt it went down that way.

There are 60 picks in the NBA draft and over 4000 kids playing D-1 basketball. No I don't think the majority of players in D-1 think they are going to the NBA. I doubt the majority of SU players think they are going to the NBA. There isn't one team in the county - not one - that has an entire roster of kids who don't care about academics. Since you bring up Kentucky, I am sure you are aware Brandon Knight had a 4.3 GPA in high school and maintained a 4.0 GPA during his one season there. I am also sure you are aware Anthony Davis played at a school in Chicago little known for its athletic programs as it was an academic school where he maintained a 3.3 GPA. As for UNC, their 2nd team All-American center is a first team Academic All-American with a 3.6 GPA. But hey, in the name of deflecting the Fab issue and defending JB, lets paint every kid at every program with the same brush.

 

[otto123]

Grow up. You don't like rich people, I get it. Intelligent people can actually tell if their economic circumstances were poor or not. They can also tell how hard they work in comparison to those around them. I would guess her full scholarship was well earned. Your last statement is just pathetic and so wrong on so many levels. Smart, hardworking people have a tendency to become rich not a guarantee. Unlike you, I think that is a great thing.

CTO is a big girl, you don't have to respond to everyone that quote's her.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

First of all, I am sorry to hear about your friend. Hospice is truly such a wonderful thing and such a sad thing at the same time. The service they provide is so beneficial to both the family and the patient, but just the term "hospice" carries such a negative connotation because the end is in sight.

While I am not an alum, I do consider myself a diehard fan. There have been many, many losses where I havent slept after, or was just in a horribly pissy mood the next day (or days). All of that changed in 2009, when my Dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. We used the 2009 season as a time to watch the games together and enjoy their the start of their magical run. SU games were away to get away from everything at least for a few hours. My Dad passed at the end of 2009. When SU lost to Butler, sure I was mad. But I slept well that night. I've learned the past couple of years that I have enough crappy things going on in life (like we all do. I am no different) to lose sleep over losses that I cannot control. Instead I like to think that sports is away to put real life situations on hold for a couple of hours.

That being said, you are entitled to your opinion. And people that come onto a Syracuse message board are entitled to theirs. I find your post to be incredibly condescending.
"It is no secret here that I am friends with the entire Boeheim family." "No one here has been a bigger SU basketball fan than I have .... or for LONGER than I have."
I know that there is a group of people on this message board that hang on your every word for any insight they can get, but sometimes you need to take a step back and realize what you are writing. I get it. You're rich and popular. The rich and popular shouldn't be reminding the lowly how rich and popular they are.

The fact of the matter is that the SU Basketball Program has been an absolute joke this year. Between the child sex abuse scandal, Fab Take I, Drug Testing Scandal, followed by Fab Take II SU can't get out of the headlines. If people want to come to a message board to vent, I don't really see the problem with that. Throwing around the "my friend has cancer card" really doesn't seem to help the matter.

This spiraled into a very cold post. You say (in a snarky way) that she has followers and at the end say she shouldn't play the cancer card. Yet earlier you voiced the same cancer drivel. And no one cares about you. Everyone has one of those things, hers just happened to be on her mind.

You didn't like the Boeheim family comment. Seemed obvious she was setting the stage for her prospective, supportive of JB. She was finding calls for JBs head to be troubling. Most people, even with different viewpoints (ie iommi), then responded in a respectful manner. You somehow saw this as lording over some wealth and fame. I didn't get that.

Yes, a lot of issues have hit the program. There has been a lot of media exposure and old issues have been brought to light along with the Fab stuff. SU is on the cusp of being a big time hoops program, people are going to have to have a little thicker skin. I'm with CTO on this, calm down and let the thing play out.

 

[djcon57]

Just one comment on the whole JB must go bandwagon of which I'm leaning toward...

I don't think it's fair to include the Fine mess on his plate. he really had nothing to do with it. The drug deal and the fab deal...agreed.

 

[AirForceOrange]

just like it should go without saying that college basketball eligibility is not as important as curing cancer, it should also go without saying that decisions that do not result in incarceration might not require the same burden of proof.

duhhhhhh

Posts like those by Millhouse and Bonacuse are why I wish we had a DISLIKE option!! (BTW...this is my opnion)

 

[Millhouse]

Posts like those by Millhouse and Bonacuse are why I wish we had a DISLIKE option!! (BTW...this is my opnion)

you shouldn't get so worked up. there's someone out there with cancer, you know

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think JB should call it a day. The basketball program needs to be a tighter ship and as great as he is, I don't see any evidence that he can run a tight ship. He got his title, he got 800 wins, he's in the HOF. I'm worried that his hands off approach is much less effective in an environment where everyone's watching you.

I agree and like you said we all have personal problems and tragedy which are far more important than Syracuse basketball, I don't come here to gain perspective on what really matters in life, what's important, etc. I share your opinion, time for JB to step down and I don't discount all that he has done nor do I think the guy is a saint or without fault in this whole mess. I am alos not trying to discount all he has done but all things come to an end. When you are the head of a college basketball program eventually the buck stops with the head coach, sure if he was a second year coach I would throw the AD under the bus and I honestly that many of the assistants, Hop included are company guys and carrying out direction from the top. How anyone can absolve JB from this is beyond me. It's his company and he should be forced to answer with something more than venom and vitrol at the direction of people who ask the questions that should be answered. Mr Boeheim is like many older CEO's who react neagatively when their leadership is questioned. It happens when your ego is out of whack.

Last summer, there were many posts about how JB knows everything that goes on within his program even after 35 years or however long it has been, funny you don't see those anymore.

 

[AirForceOrange]

you shouldn't get so worked up. there's someone out there with cancer, you know

Thanks for continuing to prove my point about a Dislike button.

Just, I agree with CTO and not you.

 

[samspann1]

Thanks for interpreting someone else's post for me. Do we really have thought police on this board?

Fab allegedly beat or physically intimidated a girl. Maybe its just me, but given that backdrop one more chance to be a member of the program would have been sufficient in my book, but instead he got more. Per the original poster, those in the know knew for "several months" that he was mocking the programs academic standards to the detriment of future teams based on the new rules. Kick him off the team long ago if that was the case. That's what I would have expected. Coaches can set examples whether you believe it or not and take action before the school does. I can give you plenty of examples where this has happened. I don't know the facts, but I'll give JB more credit if it was he who kicked Fab off the team but I doubt it went down that way.

There are 60 picks in the NBA draft and over 4000 kids playing D-1 basketball. No I don't think the majority of players in D-1 think they are going to the NBA. I doubt the majority of SU players think they are going to the NBA. There isn't one team in the county - not one - that has an entire roster of kids who don't care about academics. Since you bring up Kentucky, I am sure you are aware Brandon Knight had a 4.3 GPA in high school and maintained a 4.0 GPA during his one season there. I am also sure you are aware Anthony Davis played at a school in Chicago little known for its athletic programs as it was an academic school where he maintained a 3.3 GPA. As for UNC, their 2nd team All-American center is a first team Academic All-American with a 3.6 GPA. But hey, in the name of deflecting the Fab issue and defending JB, lets paint every kid at every program with the same brush.

Excellent post.

 

[sutomcat]

Sorry tomcat, had to fix it.

When you are right, you are right...

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Just one comment on the whole JB must go bandwagon of which I'm leaning toward...

I don't think it's fair to include the Fine mess on his plate. he really had nothing to do with it. The drug deal and the fab deal...agreed.

Sorry to hear of your JB must go lean.

You don't hold the Fine thing against him, which I think is good. But if the Fine thing had turned out to be a Sandusky like molestation mess involving SU ball boys, I don't think the same conclusion would have been met. And that's how the thing was originally painted.

I don't see how the Fab thing would influence anyone now to want JB gone. Outside of just being upset. Looks like academics. I think these things are generally swept under the rug. For some reason SU couldn't do that. We don't know all the reasons why. But it's safe to assume this is not what JB wanted. It seems the opposite of a cover up.

The drug thing does seem like a real potential problem. But I can't see even thinking of firing JB over a potential problem. There have been several investigations and no hard evidence of any misdoings. And a lot of these people want blood and haven't got it. Make me think there is not much there, in terms of a JB must go kind of way.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

Can I ask when it is that other rivals boards don't go out of thier way to find any excuse to mock SU or any other program but their own? We are just as guilty and I think it means diddly squat. Who cares. Let them mock, UCONN, North Carolina, Penn St. etc, etc all have the same issues or worse going on and what they say means nothing. SU has survived worse and will continue to do so.

Depsite media represntations this is not a scandal, it's a 20 something year old flunking out. I'm with Joyce on this one. And I even think people are counting out SU kinda of early, after all we only lost 1 game without Melo, who knows what could happen if Dion and/ or KJo get motivated by this. They'll be winning until they lose in my book.

You are right - this is not a scandal or a big deal. If you believe that then reading Dick Weiss in the NY Daily News today must make you happy. But again, it is only a kid flunking out and not a reflection on the program as a whole. Who said that there is no such thing as bad publicity?

How did this Brazilian import, who was suspended for three games for academics at the start of the second semester, become ineligible again, less than two months later?

Even though sources claim both suspensions are linked, it doesn’t add up.

This is just another unsolved mystery connected with this Big East program, which is the No. 1 seed in the East Regional, but has been mired under a heap of controversy ever since the Bernie Fine scandal and the revelations in a Yahoo.com report last week that the NCAA was investigating the school’s drug-testing policy. Four sources close to the program suggested that at least 10 former players practiced and played after testing positive on multiple occasions.

Hiding behind student-privacy laws, Syracuse officials are not commenting on Melo. Melo will never have to answer questions, either, since he is reportedly declaring for the NBA draft, in which he will be a potential first-round pick.

He almost didn’t even make it this far, as sources say Melo was ready to quit school after the first suspension, but was talked into staying by coaches.

Once again there are questions about when Syracuse knew about this latest issue and if it played an ineligible player in the Big East tournament. Did Syracuse choose not to inform the selection committee about Melo’s status to ensure it would be the top seed in Boston? If so, it comes across as unethical at best. If the committee had knowledge of Melo’s status, it might have switched Syracuse with Midwest region top seed North Carolina and moved the Orange to St. Louis, or even worse, elevated big 12 champion Missouri to the top line over the Orange.

 

[br801]

Posts like those by Millhouse and Bonacuse are why I wish we had a DISLIKE option!! (BTW...this is my opnion)

As much as I would like to see a "Dislike" button, I can just imagine what would happen to this board if those posters with chronic persecution complexes had some hard data.

 

[TinyManInside]

You are right - this is not a scandal or a big deal. If you believe that then reading Dick Weiss in the NY Daily News today must make you happy. But again, it is only a kid flunking out and not a reflection on the program as a whole. Who said that there is no such thing as bad publicity?

How did this Brazilian import, who was suspended for three games for academics at the start of the second semester, become ineligible again, less than two months later?

Even though sources claim both suspensions are linked, it doesn’t add up.

This is just another unsolved mystery connected with this Big East program, which is the No. 1 seed in the East Regional, but has been mired under a heap of controversy ever since the Bernie Fine scandal and the revelations in a Yahoo.com report last week that the NCAA was investigating the school’s drug-testing policy. Four sources close to the program suggested that at least 10 former players practiced and played after testing positive on multiple occasions.

Hiding behind student-privacy laws, Syracuse officials are not commenting on Melo. Melo will never have to answer questions, either, since he is reportedly declaring for the NBA draft, in which he will be a potential first-round pick.

He almost didn’t even make it this far, as sources say Melo was ready to quit school after the first suspension, but was talked into staying by coaches.

Once again there are questions about when Syracuse knew about this latest issue and if it played an ineligible player in the Big East tournament. Did Syracuse choose not to inform the selection committee about Melo’s status to ensure it would be the top seed in Boston? If so, it comes across as unethical at best. If the committee had knowledge of Melo’s status, it might have switched Syracuse with Midwest region top seed North Carolina and moved the Orange to St. Louis, or even worse, elevated big 12 champion Missouri to the top line over the Orange.

this is more than a little scary.

 

[AirForceOrange]

As much as I would like to see a "Dislike" button, I can just imagine what would happen to this board if those posters with chronic persecution complexes had some hard data.

br: good point...didn't think about that. That would be bad. Guess I will just make a list of those posters I will ignore/not read.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

CTO is a big girl, you don't have to respond to everyone that quote's her.

I don't and I didn't. I responded to your inane analysis regarding the person who started the post. And that doesn't deflect any of my points about your post. It was smarter to fly in another direction though with your response to me. And trivial as it is, its quotes, not quote's.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I agree and like you said we all have personal problems and tragedy which are far more important than Syracuse basketball, I don't come here to gain perspective on what really matters in life, what's important, etc. I share your opinion, time for JB to step down and I don't discount all that he has done nor do I think the guy is a saint or without fault in this whole mess. I am alos not trying to discount all he has done but all things come to an end. When you are the head of a college basketball program eventually the buck stops with the head coach, sure if he was a second year coach I would throw the AD under the bus and I honestly that many of the assistants, Hop included are company guys and carrying out direction from the top. How anyone can absolve JB from this is beyond me. It's his company and he should be forced to answer with something more than venom and vitrol at the direction of people who ask the questions that should be answered. Mr Boeheim is like many older CEO's who react neagatively when their leadership is questioned. It happens when your ego is out of whack.

Last summer, there were many posts about how JB knows everything that goes on within his program even after 35 years or however long it has been, funny you don't see those anymore.

I just can't disagree more. Get rid of JB for what exactly? Three alledged scandals spanning over 25 years? Wow. How about growing a thicker skin and playing with the big boys?

The program just turned in its best ever regular season. JB finally has a great reputation and is bringing in 5 star recruits, in the mix for the next years top recruit. JB is cashing in on years of success and getting better players and we are now seeing a better record. And people are talking about replacing him because this success has brought up talk of 3 problems in 25 years?

JB has worked years to get the program to this level and is perched to take it the next step. The upper elite. And there is a succession plan in place. Give it time to gell. Four to Five more years at a consistent top 5 rating and hopefully some NCAAT success and then give the reins over to Hop. That gives SU the best chance at the upper elite.

You are not getting a saint to run this program. Certainly not a competitive one and at a discounted price to boot. And do you really think he has an obligation to be nice to these irritating reporters? Look what they have tried to do to him and his program.

 

[br801]

br: good point...didn't think about that. That would be bad. Guess I will just make a list of those posters I will ignore/not read.

Before yesterday I had a pretty short list that I could keep in my head. Now I may need a database. A lot of surprising posts.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Thanks for interpreting someone else's post for me. Do we really have thought police on this board?

Fab allegedly beat or physically intimidated a girl. Maybe its just me, but given that backdrop one more chance to be a member of the program would have been sufficient in my book, but instead he got more. Per the original poster, those in the know knew for "several months" that he was mocking the programs academic standards to the detriment of future teams based on the new rules. Kick him off the team long ago if that was the case. That's what I would have expected. Coaches can set examples whether you believe it or not and take action before the school does. I can give you plenty of examples where this has happened. I don't know the facts, but I'll give JB more credit if it was he who kicked Fab off the team but I doubt it went down that way.

There are 60 picks in the NBA draft and over 4000 kids playing D-1 basketball. No I don't think the majority of players in D-1 think they are going to the NBA. I doubt the majority of SU players think they are going to the NBA. There isn't one team in the county - not one - that has an entire roster of kids who don't care about academics. Since you bring up Kentucky, I am sure you are aware Brandon Knight had a 4.3 GPA in high school and maintained a 4.0 GPA during his one season there. I am also sure you are aware Anthony Davis played at a school in Chicago little known for its athletic programs as it was an academic school where he maintained a 3.3 GPA. As for UNC, their 2nd team All-American center is a first team Academic All-American with a 3.6 GPA. But hey, in the name of deflecting the Fab issue and defending JB, lets paint every kid at every program with the same brush.

You needed the help and I'm a helping caring person. Your cherry picking proves there are those you utilize the education opportunity. Nobody said otherwise. You have managed to miss the point again in that in the major college programs , the kids do believe they have a chance at the NBA. If you choose to believe otherwise, great. That means I am not tho only one naive about some things.
Brandon so cared about his education first he left after one year. What do you miss about his priorities there? Lets see now...hmmm NBA vs college degree. I think one year of college is enough for now, so I'll go NBA now. He will probably get his degree, but that is his second priority. No one is deflecting the FAB issue more than those of you who want JB's head 'cause Melo flunked out. Which one of you started the thread clamoring for JB to get tossed when Mookie left, or when Devo was asked to depart and so on?

 

[AirForceOrange]

Before yesterday I had a pretty short list that I could keep in my head. Now I may need a database. A lot of surprising posts.

Use the ignore option on your profile, the board will not show posts by people you ignore...nice time-saver!!