A little perspective here

[sutomcat]

1) With very few exceptions, every high major D-1 school has a roster full of kids who are there to play basketball...rather than to go to class. Let's accept that. They have been idolized and catered to since they were in 7th grade....for their basketball skills.

2) Syracuse does as much as any school to try to make these kids take academics seriously. Team managers make sure they attend class. There are mandatory study halls throughout the semester. Tutors make sure they do their homework. However, none of that means anything if a kid decides to tune out. Totally coincidentally, I had dinner tonight with a current SU student who sits next to a prominent SU player in a class this semester. He says the player spends the entire class either sleeping or texting on his iPhone. This shows you can get a person to attend class... but not to pay attention to anything that is said in class.

3) Melo several months ago decided he was going to declare for the NBA at the end of this semester -- in part because he listens to people like those on this message board ... who have been touting him as going to the NBA this year. As a result, he totally tuned out on anything academic at SU. He was just marking time. In short, he didn't give a shxt. This, I remind you, is a kid who was strenuously recruited by a ton of schools three years ago -- all of whom wanted desperately to have him.

4) It is no secret here that I am friends with the entire Boeheim family. I have no friendships I value more. That being said, some of the stuff I have read here tonight ... directed at Jim... literally make me sick. A week ago, people here were touting Jim for national coach of the year. Tonight, some of the same people are calling for him to be fired. Which is it, folks? You have changed your mind 180 degrees because some delusional 20-year-old kid decided he didnt have to do his schoolwork any more because he's gonna get an NBA check next year????

5) No one here has been a bigger SU basketball fan than I have .... or for LONGER than I have. But guess what? It is a frigging game played by kids in their teens or barely out of their teens. It is not my friend Ray Matthieu, a genuine saint, who went into terminal hospice care today because he is about to die from final-stage Melanoma.

6) Get a grip, folks. Melo being suspended is not terminal cancer. It is not a homeless family with no money to feed their children. If you want to obsess about something important, volunteer at a soup kitchen. Or tutor inner-city kids so they will take academics seriously. But don't call for the head of the man who has done more for Syracuse University (and the entire Syracuse community) than anyone else in the school's history.

Well done cto.

Perspective. Something sadly lacking on this board yesterday,

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Well done cto.

Perspective. Something sadly lacking on this board all the time,

Sorry tomcat, had to fix it.

 

[BayonneOrange]

1) With very few exceptions, every high major D-1 school has a roster full of kids who are there to play basketball...rather than to go to class. Let's accept that. They have been idolized and catered to since they were in 7th grade....for their basketball skills.

2) Syracuse does as much as any school to try to make these kids take academics seriously. Team managers make sure they attend class. There are mandatory study halls throughout the semester. Tutors make sure they do their homework. However, none of that means anything if a kid decides to tune out. Totally coincidentally, I had dinner tonight with a current SU student who sits next to a prominent SU player in a class this semester. He says the player spends the entire class either sleeping or texting on his iPhone. This shows you can get a person to attend class... but not to pay attention to anything that is said in class.

3) Melo several months ago decided he was going to declare for the NBA at the end of this semester -- in part because he listens to people like those on this message board ... who have been touting him as going to the NBA this year. As a result, he totally tuned out on anything academic at SU. He was just marking time. In short, he didn't give a shxt. This, I remind you, is a kid who was strenuously recruited by a ton of schools three years ago -- all of whom wanted desperately to have him.

4) It is no secret here that I am friends with the entire Boeheim family. I have no friendships I value more. That being said, some of the stuff I have read here tonight ... directed at Jim... literally make me sick. A week ago, people here were touting Jim for national coach of the year. Tonight, some of the same people are calling for him to be fired. Which is it, folks? You have changed your mind 180 degrees because some delusional 20-year-old kid decided he didnt have to do his schoolwork any more because he's gonna get an NBA check next year????

5) No one here has been a bigger SU basketball fan than I have .... or for LONGER than I have. But guess what? It is a frigging game played by kids in their teens or barely out of their teens. It is not my friend Ray Matthieu, a genuine saint, who went into terminal hospice care today because he is about to die from final-stage Melanoma.

6) Get a grip, folks. Melo being suspended is not terminal cancer. It is not a homeless family with no money to feed their children. If you want to obsess about something important, volunteer at a soup kitchen. Or tutor inner-city kids so they will take academics seriously. But don't call for the head of the man who has done more for Syracuse University (and the entire Syracuse community) than anyone else in the school's history.

Great post , Joyce. I agree 100%. Thoughts and prayers for your friend.

Of course I'm disappointed, a little let down, but we move on and try to win a few games and make this interesting and exciting.

FWIW, when I was in school, they had an adviser who pretty much checked the classes of the athletes for attendance. The managers had very little to do with that. But, hey, that was 25 years ago.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Sadly CTO, some people (not just here) take their sports more seriously than life. That is why sports is where it is today, and in some respects why our country is how it is today.
We see riots by winners and losers, resulting in destruction, mayhem and death.
Parents expect their kids to be D-1 athletes and the hell with the coach who says they are not good enough.
Frustrated coaches and athletes live vicariously through their teams, and lose all perspective when there personal lives and choices are not validated by the success of their team.

My life will be no different if SU loses on Thursday or cuts down the nets 3 Mondays from now. I feel sad for people who think their lives will be.

 

[EastCoast2]

Very true. You can put in all the infrastructure you want in place -- follow them to class, make them run if they miss, send them to study tables, have tudors give guidance -- but ultimately there comes a point where the kid either follows through on his own or he doesn't. The last thing you can do is take away eligiblity here (obviously what they did). Kid messed up, kid is ineligible.

If the kid is at a point where he doesn't care if he misses games, then there really is very little leverage anyone has to make him follow through on academics. That's they last form of punishment they can do.

I played a sport in college and we had actual coaches check classrooms to make sure we were there. If we weren't there we were in trouble... I mean running sprints until we vomit, or forced to sit a practice or a meaningless scrimmage. SU must have 10 "student managers" who can check. Apparently none of them have any balls.

 

[MCuse44]

Good post.

It's time universities start offering basketball, football...whatever as a major. If they do not want to utilize their good fortune (free education) why force them to study something they could care less about. They are ultimately there to try and get to the NBA. That's the profession they want. Study the game, lift weighs, learn financial information...whatever...they may actually tune in for that.

 

[EastCoast2]

I want to echo Joyce's point on JB. How can some of you call for him to be fired? And Hopkins too? JB can't put 15 kids on a leash and drag them to class, sit next to them all night while they study, and have an earpiece in during exams. Hell, two parents struggle getting ONE child to take school seriously. Fair or unfair these are the rules JB and SU must abide by, and one bad apple decreased our chances of cutting down the nets. Notice I said decreased, not ruined. Let get this.

 

[EastCoast2]

Good post.

It's time universities start offering basketball, football...whatever as a major. If they do not want to utilize their good fortune (free education) why force them to study something they could care less about. They are ultimately there to try and get to the NBA. That's the profession they want. Study the game, lift weighs, learn financial information...whatever...they may actually tune in for that.

The problem is 95% of freshmen basketball players would major in "basketball", then only 2% would actually get a chance at the pros, leaving 93% of college basketball players with no life skills or education.

 

[Millhouse]

This thread is a little weird. It goes without saying that this stuff isn't life or death. Usually when I say "It goes without saying" I'm not being that literal about it. But it really does go without saying. People like Capt Turtle saying that anyone take sports more seriously than life. Really, Turtle?

There is stupidity about perspective here. This is a Syracuse basketball board. Within the context of syracuse basketball this is a big deal. It goes without saying that cancer is worse. but what fun is it to spend your whole life letting the worst things in the world ruin everything. I feel so shameful for enjoying 2003, what does it matter, people are dying of cancer!

It's just an empty headed thing that people say about sports. I care a lot about lots of things that don't affect whether I'm alive. You make emotional investments in lots of things to enjoy your life. And sometimes you'll be let down and it doesn't matter to me if people think they're profound by pointing out that it's worse to die.

 

[MCuse44]

A college degree does not guarantee anything in life, but it helps Why cant they get a bachelors in basketball. How is that any worse then general business or communications. People major in instruments...why not sports.

 

[EastCoast2]

A college degree does not guarantee anything in life, but it helps Why cant they get a bachelors in basketball. How is that any worse then general business or communications. People major in instruments...why not sports.

That would be okay if it were focused on learning to become a coach and stuff like that, not a glorified gym class major which it what it sounds like.

 

[orange79]

Interesting that the ones calling for JB's ouster (ridiculous IMO) haven't posted or won't post under this topic. Oh Lord

 

[SBU72]

Lately I find that I don't "fear" SU losing as much as the "fear" of facing the harsh criticism of what happened. This board goes so far off that I with hold critical observations because I don't want to look like one of the haters. So when the SU program comes underfire I cringe, not because of what happened but finding that I get put in a position of trying to defend JB and the program because people know I am a big fan. And believe me, as an SBU grad, I know what it is like to have the bball program brought under fire! Some are complaining about how could the coaching staff (read JB) allow Melo to fail academically even though no amount of guidence, oversight, etc can force an individual to learn. How about the intestenal foritude that SU has for stepping up and saying this "kid" did not meet the standards that were place before him. They could have easily have waited 3 weeks and done it then. How many other schools/coaches would hvae done that? How many other underclassmen in other schools stop being students early on because they know they are turning pro and how many of those head coaches know it and don't say anyhing because they don't have to?

 

[jr4750]

without Jim Boeheim in the 80s, hoop at the Dome fails.

hoop goes back to manley.

SU is a joke program.

without Jim Boeheim in the 2010s...hoop will fail at the Dome.

yep, when hes gone, with or without Hop (who should be canned too if you all want JB gone), hoop will suffer and we long for the days of 20 wins and never leaving NYS.

Oh Lord

I hope that's not completely true because in the best of circumstances JB won't coach through this decade. The end is near, unfortunately.

 

[Bayside44]

The thing that stinks is that SU gets a few chances to be in a position to win it. We were two years ago with AO, and he goes down. Then this kid, who has people all over him, check out, and the school goes back and forth on his eligibility. But life goes on and Bruce is touring and spring is springing so we're all good at the end of the day.

As I get older I don't view this stuff like I did in 2003, too much water under the bridge. And I love JB - and people sorta need to get a grip that when one guy has been here for 50 years or whatever he'll have the combined issues that a dozen guys at one school would've had over that same timeframe for the most part (outside the Fine thing, that was truly odd).

 

[tipphill]

cto your post is all true.i would not call for jb to quit that is absurd. i do feel that a review of the athletic department and our academic standing deterioration is called for --as this has been a national program that has been called heavily into question and begs the issue as who is in charge,and why is all this happening.----what has happened to su in general,national reputation academically,athletics etc is in our face on a daily basis,and not much of it has been good. a stellar hoops record does not address the bigger underlying issues that we see everyday, and i feel there is a greater systemic problem at hand,both academically and athletically. given the events over the past couple of years---we need to do some self evaluation. that said i have no use for the ncaa,they are a bigger mess than the federal goverment,self serving,pompous,arrogant,incompetent and archaic. i don't know what it is but something appears to wrong

 

[Millhouse]

Interesting that the ones calling for JB's ouster (ridiculous IMO) haven't posted or won't post under this topic. Oh Lord

I think JB should call it a day. The basketball program needs to be a tighter ship and as great as he is, I don't see any evidence that he can run a tight ship. He got his title, he got 800 wins, he's in the HOF. I'm worried that his hands off approach is much less effective in an environment where everyone's watching you.

 

[TOL22]

As mentioned elsewhere, speaking for myself only, I think this is like the five stages of grief. (Nunes version combined with Kubler-Ross).

- No freaking way! This must be a sick joke! I cannot believe all the that has happened to the program this year!
- I'm SO pissed off at that stupid kid! A mistake (on many parts) of colossal proportions! How could he be so selfish? Doesn't he grasp the opportunity?
- Certainly there's something that can be done before Boston / New Orleans?
- That poor kid; his great season will be remembered by the fact that he screwed up the entire post-season. Say what you will, but talking to my husband last night that's exactly what I said (well, among many other things re this situation). Maybe it's the mother in me that feels sympathy for the huge potential for kids of that age to make major mistakes, but from everything I know, this was a sudden event that landed in JB's lap. One minute Fab's on the way to a possible National Championship, and the next he's staying home, feeling like an a$$hole for letting his team down (especially the seniors).
- Also, poor me. One minute I'm making ticket and travel plans and arranging sitters, and the next I've got my finger on the cancel button. This whole season was special, and now it's not likely to be quite as special. I don't even care about my brackets, I just wanted that ride.
- Well, that happened. If you're gonna jump off the bandwagon, be my guest. Nothing to do but see how it plays out.

A word about perspective: In early 2005 I went through the darkest period of my life. And yes, the basketball season was a diversion. I was upset that I was unable to go to the BET, nor Vermont, but was thrilled with the Big East title, and looking forward to a watching a great tourney as a 4 seed. When they lost to Vermont, I cried like a small child. Seriously, inconsolable. But again, it happened and there was nothing more to do but move on, albeit without my diversion.

It'll be fine. All we can do is our best.

 

[Marsh01]

As mentioned elsewhere, speaking for myself only, I think this is like the five stages of grief. (Nunes version combined with Kubler-Ross).

- No freaking way! This must be a sick joke! I cannot believe all the that has happened to the program this year!
- I'm SO pissed off at that stupid kid! A mistake (on many parts) of colossal proportions! How could he be so selfish? Doesn't he grasp the opportunity?
- Certainly there's something that can be done before Boston / New Orleans?
- That poor kid; his great season will be remembered by the fact that he screwed up the entire post-season. Say what you will, but talking to my husband last night that's exactly what I said (well, among many other things re this situation). Maybe it's the mother in me that feels sympathy for the huge potential for kids of that age to make major mistakes, but from everything I know, this was a sudden event that landed in JB's lap. One minute Fab's on the way to a possible National Championship, and the next he's staying home, feeling like an a$$hole for letting his team down (especially the seniors).
- Also, poor me. One minute I'm making ticket and travel plans and arranging sitters, and the next I've got my finger on the cancel button. This whole season was special, and now it's not likely to be quite as special. I don't even care about my brackets, I just wanted that ride.
- Well, that happened. If you're gonna jump off the bandwagon, be my guest. Nothing to do but see how it plays out.

A word about perspective: In early 2005 I went through the darkest period of my life. And yes, the basketball season was a diversion. I was upset that I was unable to go to the BET, nor Vermont, but was thrilled with the Big East title, and looking forward to a watching a great tourney as a 4 seed. When they lost to Vermont, I cried like a small child. Seriously, inconsolable. But again, it happened and there was nothing more to do but move on, albeit without my diversion.

It'll be fine. All we can do is our best.

Well said, I agree completely. I too have made deals with the devil to clear up these next 2 weekends. I am not going to let what happened ruin my plans. I told my wife (who is coming to Boston with me) that if we dont make it then we just spend 3 days in Boston. It is what it is.

 

[RMH44]

cto your post is all true.i would not call for jb to quit that is absurd. i do feel that a review of the athletic department and our academic standing deterioration is called for --as this has been a national program that has been called heavily into question and begs the issue as who is in charge,and why is all this happening.----what has happened to su in general,national reputation academically,athletics etc is in our face on a daily basis,and not much of it has been good. a stellar hoops record does not address the bigger underlying issues that we see everyday, and i feel there is a greater systemic problem at hand,both academically and athletically. given the events over the past couple of years---we need to do some self evaluation. that said i have no use for the ncaa,they are a bigger mess than the federal goverment,self serving,pompous,arrogant,incompetent and archaic. i don't know what it is but something appears to wrong

We're talking about hoops here...not the entire Athletic Department. The academic standing of other SU programs has been very good. As usual, you've over-stated your argument.

 

[JoeCollege]

1) With very few exceptions, every high major D-1 school has a roster full of kids who are there to play basketball...rather than to go to class. Let's accept that. They have been idolized and catered to since they were in 7th grade....for their basketball skills.

2) Syracuse does as much as any school to try to make these kids take academics seriously. Team managers make sure they attend class. There are mandatory study halls throughout the semester. Tutors make sure they do their homework. However, none of that means anything if a kid decides to tune out. Totally coincidentally, I had dinner tonight with a current SU student who sits next to a prominent SU player in a class this semester. He says the player spends the entire class either sleeping or texting on his iPhone. This shows you can get a person to attend class... but not to pay attention to anything that is said in class.

3) Melo several months ago decided he was going to declare for the NBA at the end of this semester -- in part because he listens to people like those on this message board ... who have been touting him as going to the NBA this year. As a result, he totally tuned out on anything academic at SU. He was just marking time. In short, he didn't give a shxt. This, I remind you, is a kid who was strenuously recruited by a ton of schools three years ago -- all of whom wanted desperately to have him.

4) It is no secret here that I am friends with the entire Boeheim family. I have no friendships I value more. That being said, some of the stuff I have read here tonight ... directed at Jim... literally make me sick. A week ago, people here were touting Jim for national coach of the year. Tonight, some of the same people are calling for him to be fired. Which is it, folks? You have changed your mind 180 degrees because some delusional 20-year-old kid decided he didnt have to do his schoolwork any more because he's gonna get an NBA check next year????

5) No one here has been a bigger SU basketball fan than I have .... or for LONGER than I have. But guess what? It is a frigging game played by kids in their teens or barely out of their teens. It is not my friend Ray Matthieu, a genuine saint, who went into terminal hospice care today because he is about to die from final-stage Melanoma.

6) Get a grip, folks. Melo being suspended is not terminal cancer. It is not a homeless family with no money to feed their children. If you want to obsess about something important, volunteer at a soup kitchen. Or tutor inner-city kids so they will take academics seriously. But don't call for the head of the man who has done more for Syracuse University (and the entire Syracuse community) than anyone else in the school's history.

Good God, Joyce, I love you. Well said, most particularly #6. The level of histrionics on this board are what I expect out of my 11 year old, not from "adults". And wouldn't you know, the attitude of a child regarding this has been a lot more mature than most of the posts here. It's been a good touchstone for conversation. Thanks for (again) bringing a standard of decency and decorum to this place.

 

[iommi]

Interesting that the ones calling for JB's ouster (ridiculous IMO) haven't posted or won't post under this topic. Oh Lord

Okay...I thought about posting under this topic...now I will. Joyce has the right to her opinion. Obviously, I knew a post like this from her was forthcoming.

First off, best of luck to Joyce's friend, Ray.

As to her other points, I certainly think my opinion is valid. One thing I'll say is that she's friends with the Boeheim's, so of course, she's going to go to bat for JB.

To her points:

1-3) I am aware that it's basketball-first for kids. But isn't there a supervisory responsibility here? If #51 was given 2nd and 3rd chances...shouldn't he also have been given a shorter leash? How about a strict curfew? Or is going to Chuck's mandated. #51 is selfish and immature but after the first suspension, he should not have been allowed to play unless certain academic parameters were followed. The ball was dropped, that's for sure.

4) I have not much to add here. JB did a good job keeping the team focused on the court...I never said he wasn't a great coach. It's his laissez faire attitude about what his players do off the court, as Jake put it, that I am critical about.

5-6) Again, best of luck to Joyce's friend. I don't take this stuff too seriously, I post on a message board. It's not my life. It's an interest I am passionate about.
If we cannot give our passionate criticisms of our coach on a message board, where can we do so?

 

[RF2044]

This thread is a little weird. It goes without saying that this stuff isn't life or death. Usually when I say "It goes without saying" I'm not being that literal about it. But it really does go without saying. People like Capt Turtle saying that anyone take sports more seriously than life. Really, Turtle?

There is stupidity about perspective here. This is a Syracuse basketball board. Within the context of syracuse basketball this is a big deal. It goes without saying that cancer is worse. but what fun is it to spend your whole life letting the worst things in the world ruin everything. I feel so shameful for enjoying 2003, what does it matter, people are dying of cancer!

It's just an empty headed thing that people say about sports. I care a lot about lots of things that don't affect whether I'm alive. You make emotional investments in lots of things to enjoy your life. And sometimes you'll be let down and it doesn't matter to me if people think they're profound by pointing out that it's worse to die.

This is probably one of those posts where after you'd gotten your thoughts down on the screen in front of you, it would have been a better decision to not hit the send button.

Bizarre post, from beginning to end. The temper tantrums, personal attacks on Fab, etc. were what Joyce was referring to as people needing "perspective" -- not fans being disappointed about a setback for the team they root for.

 

[SWC75]

If I were on trial there are some posters here I would not want to be on the jury.

Something bad happened here but I have yet to see anybody say they know exactly what happened. And yet many posters seem to be sure of the cause of the problem and the solution.

 

[pfister1]

*edit* Also, I'm not at all comfortable with the part about it just being a game played by kids. It's a huge business. The scrutiny and calls for accountability are justified on that front, IMHO.

How about its a huge business that rides or falls entirely on the whims of kids, does that make you feel any better? There is a certain amount of Russian Roulette to the whole thing. You can only control what you can control...forcing a kid to do work isn't really one of the things you can control, without doing it for him which puts you in a different pot of hot water.