A Thought on Dino's Contract

[UnknownOrange]

who is no longer HC first; Boeheim, Babers, or both are out after their season concludes within the same academic year (whenever that might be: 2022/3? 2023/4? 2024/5?)

 

[orangepassion]

Consistency and bad game management is the issue. Not sure why people are expecting us to have great recruiting classes. We are one of the worse P5 schools in the country the last 18 years and the team is in snowy Syracuse. I would like a younger innovative coach with East coast ties but we all have to realize that can backfire as well. ( Hafley for ex). Ive seen enough coaches fail to know that SU is a hard place to coach at.

We need a guy like Clawson who has a good eye for talent, develops it, brings discipline (i.e lack of penalties), and manages a game well.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I think the risk of a HC leaving is smaller than we make it out to be. You don't see many P5 HCs moving from one school to another. When you do, it is usually leaving to reunite with an AD, leaving for where you are from or went to school, or leaving a mess. If you had a $5M buyout it likely is enough to deter a lateral move, while leaving the window open should you need to fire the HC. Now we know this for future contracts.

You have to take into account that it was done here which carries more weight. Dino for all for all of his faults and my issues with him isn't Greg Robinson,. He did beat a ranked Tech team, Clemson etc. So after 2018 the assumption was that higher level teams were gonna reach out (this did happen) and that any contract he signed to stay here was going to have to have high buyouts for SU's protections but also Dino's. Remember his agent probably also pressed for high buyouts because if sh$t hits the fan record wise he knows it's going to take several years before a school will move on. Same thing that Jimbo Fishers agent probably demanded but at a much higher level of $$. SU's big mistake was not leaving in a partial out where the buyout dipped considerably for one year or took a big dip this year versus next. A school like SU has to put in some type of exit clause or strategy even if it burns them if Dino had worked out and left for say Nebraska after he went 9-3 this year.

 

[money3189]

I'm only making suggestions for a possible strategy to bolster depth as the remains a fundamental problem for the program. If you got guys from across the state that weren't really recruited very much if at all, I think they would be happy to stay for 4-5 years and get an SU degree.

Oh I agree. Some kids are worth keeping and developing. Helps with depth. Its still a risk if you get too many of those types at one time. That's all I'm saying.

 

[JeremyCuse]

who is no longer HC first; Boeheim, Babers, or both are out after their season concludes within the same academic year (whenever that might be: 2022/3? 2023/4? 2024/5?)

Good question. You will have a better feel for that in 2 months. Right now id lean 60-40 JB leaving first but see me again in 2 months that number may have changed significantly.

 

[money3189]

We need a guy like Clawson who has a good eye for talent, develops it, brings discipline (i.e lack of penalties), and manages a game well.

He would be perfect. I do wonder if it would be tougher for him at Cuse. NYS don't produce as many prospects as the Carolina area.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You have to take into account that it was done here which carries more weight. Dino for all for all of his faults and my issues with him isn't Greg Robinson,. He did beat a ranked Tech team, Clemson etc. So after 2018 the assumption was that higher level teams were gonna reach out (this did happen) and that any contract he signed to stay here was going to have to have high buyouts for SU's protections but also Dino's. Remember his agent probably also pressed for high buyouts because if sh$t hits the fan record wise he knows it's going to take several years before a school will move on. Same thing that Jimbo Fishers agent probably demanded but at a much higher level of $$. SU's big mistake was not leaving in a partial out where the buyout dipped considerably for one year or took a big dip this year versus next. A school like SU has to put in some type of exit clause or strategy even if it burns them if Dino had worked out and left for say Nebraska after he went 9-3 this year.

IMO a $5M buyout would have been plenty for all parties. I don't think a big time program would have taken Dino. If they did, SU gets something out of it. Non big time programs would have to give Dino $1M more in salary than we are paying and pay the $5M. Those schools aren't going to be able to afford that. I think schools are over thinking things with all these contracts lately.

 

[Bayside44]

The boom of dead money in college sports

What did FBS schools pay football and basketball coaches not to coach? The numbers will surprise you.

www.espn.com

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Dino has managed that well.

Many fans say they are good with 6-6 and a minor bowl game until they aren't but you can't keep moving the finish line

 

[Cusefan69]

He gambled on retaining a coach after the best season the program had in 17 years. He gambled and he lost. Dino had a lot of leverage at that point as well. It happens but most here have a crystal ball that I forgot about. Covid wasn't a great help either

Agreed and let's be real here. Just about every single person on this board said sign Dino to the extension and do it now after the bowl win. Well JW did and he likely negotiated the deal as best he could with Dino's agent leveraging the "Dino wave " at the time. Last year was I think a different discussion buyout wise because I think I read it was north of $10 million. Again my guess is Dino gets next year because he is bowl eligible and there's new offense staff and there were injuries. I would expect next year JW would need to see more wins and no blowouts or he would jettison everyone and start new.

 

[OburgOrange]

And there is a risk involved in every contract negotiation. It's not uncommon. Again, you act as if he had a crystal ball. It's business. You live with it and deal with what's in front of you. Make the best decision with the information he had available at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20 and some have a tougher time dealing with that than others

Look at Jimbo Fisher, same issue on a larger scale. You don't think A&M is dying to get rid of him. If he was winning nobody would care. Michigan St, FSU, Florida, Nebraska, Wisconsin, ASU, LSU, Auburn, Miami 5 x over the list is endless of AD's that have signed coaches to a contract that did not pan out. Just need a few boosters that care enough to write the check but if they don't exist then you are stuck

This has nothing to do with having a “crystal ball”. You missed my point. We signed a contract in which we couldn’t afford to get out of if we wanted to. Not ideal

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The boom of dead money in college sports

What did FBS schools pay football and basketball coaches not to coach? The numbers will surprise you.

www.espn.com

The Chizik, Orgeron and Helfrich buy outs are case in point. Thought they had their coaches for the forseeable future, all 3 fired 2 years later, two after winning the national championship. one after being the runner up. There isn't much loyalty either way. Jimbo 100% fleeced the A&M boosters and AD

 

[Bayside44]

This narrative is incorrect. We lost by double digits at Pitt and only had 145 yards of offense. We lost to double digits to Notre Dame. They completely controlled the ball.

For as terrible as the Pitt game was we were down one possession at the end of the game with the ball (granted 99 yards away and for one play).

We were down a TD when Wilson threw a pick with 12 and change on the clock to go. They controlled it (I posted a lot agreeing with you) and it clearly got away on the scoreboard.

 

[CousCuse]

Many fans say they are good with 6-6 and a minor bowl game until they aren't but you can't keep moving the finish line

It is a great position to be in getting paid major $$$$ in the 7th and 8th season of your program and all that's asked is to have a .500 record. May as well give a new contract because nobody could possibly do better than that at Syracuse. 5 more years, 5 more years.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This has nothing to do with having a “crystal ball”. You missed my point. We signed a contract in which we couldn’t afford to get out of if we wanted to. Not ideal

and you missed the inherent risk when you are Syracuse trying to compete in the current landscape of big time college football. Again, gambled and lost now you want your money back, let me know how that works out. The 2019 season was the most highly anticipated that I can remember in 25 years. It was a dud and yes none of this is ideal

 

[CousCuse]

For as terrible as the Pitt game was we were down one possession at the end of the game with the ball (granted 99 yards away and for one play).

We were down a TD when Wilson threw a pick with 12 and change on the clock to go. They controlled it (I posted a lot agreeing with you) and it clearly got away on the scoreboard.

I want to hear your golf score excuses.

 

[Bayside44]

I want to hear your golf score excuses.

I cannot repeat my swing.

Has nothing to do with the post.

 

[OburgOrange]

and you missed the inherent risk when you are Syracuse trying to compete in the current landscape of big time college football. Again, gambled and lost now you want your money back, let me know how that works out. The 2019 season was the most highly anticipated that I can remember in 25 years. It was a dud and yes none of this is ideal

So in the current landscape we will continue to sign coaches to contracts with buyouts we can’t afford?

 

[the villager]

Give HCDB the Floyd Little ambassador/spokesperson position ( have to pay him anyway) Make coach RA head coach ,Beck OC and pay White and ST coach to stay.I think that group would be good recruiters.

 

[orangepassion]

He would be perfect. I do wonder if it would be tougher for him at Cuse. NYS don't produce as many prospects as the Carolina area.

There's also a lot more schools in NC that he has to recruit against, who all have bigger fanbases, better facilities, and easier to get into. We're the only P5 school in NY and very few other NE schools.

 

[orangepassion]

Give HCDB the Floyd Little ambassador/spokesperson position ( have to pay him anyway) Make coach RA head coach ,Beck OC and pay White and ST coach to stay.I think that group would be good recruiters.

I really like Anae as an OC, but I don't think he has the personality to be a HC. If you go internal, think White has to be the choice.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

So in the current landscape we will continue to sign coaches to contracts with buyouts we can’t afford?

No idea but I am sure they would try and retain the next coach if they think they hired a good one and if that coach proves successful then job well done.

and I don't think if Dino walked away today that the new coach would inherit a complete mess either. Dino hasn't run the program into the ground by any means. Certainly not ideal but not a disaster either

 

[HRE Otto IV]

There's also a lot more schools in NC that he has to recruit against, who all have bigger fanbases, better facilities, and easier to get into. We're the only P5 school in NY and very few other NE schools.

I think he has done a very good job for Wake, but I am not sure he is much different than Dino here. In 9 seasons he has had only one winning ACC record (just like Dino). He has also had pretty easy OOC schedules at Wake. Which wouldn't have been the case here. Take those away and his time at Wake is a lot like Dino minus 2020. And that is with Hartman. They have looked worse when he was out or before him.

 

[JeremyCuse]

No idea but I am sure they would try and retain the next coach if they think they hired a good one and if that coach proves successful then job well done.

and I don't think if Dino walked away today that the new coach would inherit a complete mess either. Dino hasn't run the program into the ground by any means

There is definitely talent there but like most coaches who are teetering on the hot seat its concentrated and some positions need a lot of help. A new coach (assuming no major portal exodus) would inherit a good QB room, good set of tailbacks, a decent OL, decent to good LB's depending on who leaves and a good secondary situation. On the other end the D-line needs significant help, the WR position is a complete mess and we have nothing in the way of TE's or kickers.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

There is definitely talent there but like most coaches who are teetering on the hot seat its concentrated and some positions need a lot of help. A new coach (assuming no major portal exodus) would inherit a good QB room, good set of tailbacks, a decent OL, decent to good LB's depending on who leaves and a good secondary situation. On the other end the D-line needs significant help, the WR position is a complete mess and we have nothing in the way of TE's or kickers.

Sounds about right.