A Thought on Dino's Contract

[MSOrange]

But that is kind of the point. JW has done nothing, and is doing nothing at this point to correct the current state of affairs. I have no problem withholding judgement until the end of the bowl season to see where both the football and basketball programs are. But something needs to change if things keep progressing in the current direction. If that occurs the BOD needs to get involved. We are going on 7 years under JW, what has he done other reside over the deterioration of the two programs.

I won't argue the football and basketball programs need to be fixed, and if he doesn't do that, he hasn't done his job well.

But in the win column for ADJW is the fundraising team has been better funded and emphasized and is seeing results that SU has never come close to seeing before.

 

[kcsu]

A bowl game will keep him around another year, but I still don’t think Dino has improved.

They are tied 125th nationally in penalties per game. He makes terrible in game decisions & recruiting classes are not getting better. Dino might be the type who can do great stuff if given the talent, but he isn’t the do more with less type.

Unless they hit big in the transfer portal, they just won’t have the talent next season. I really hate to be so pessimistic, but I just think he is gone after a losing season next year. So why not bring in somebody new this off-season.

10 million reasons

 

[money3189]

Consistency and bad game management is the issue. Not sure why people are expecting us to have great recruiting classes. We are one of the worse P5 schools in the country the last 18 years and the team is in snowy Syracuse. I would like a younger innovative coach with East coast ties but we all have to realize that can backfire as well. ( Hafley for ex). Ive seen enough coaches fail to know that SU is a hard place to coach at.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Consistency and bad game management is the issue. Not sure why people are expecting us to have great recruiting classes. We are one of the worse P5 schools in the country the last 18 years and the team is in snowy Syracuse. I would like a younger innovative coach with East coast ties but we all have to realize that can backfire as well. ( Hafley for ex). Ive seen enough coaches fail to know that SU is a hard place to coach at.

I think in Hafley's case he is a recruiter and BC needs to be coached up, just like us. When it comes to recruiting we need to take raw Northeast talent and mold it. IMO there is plenty of hidden talent. We don't need a recruiter as much as a talent evaluator, who can see it.

 

[Scooch]

I wish I could get an extension worth millions to be below average at my job

I get your point FF, but I always find these comments (and there are tons on this board) to be kinda silly. Dino is getting paid a market rate to be a mid/low-tier P5 head coach. Most P5 coaches end up getting fired for poor performance. It's the gig.

 

[FloridaFan]

I get your point FF, but I always find these comments (and there are tons on this board) to be kinda silly. Dino is getting paid a market rate to be a mid/low-tier P5 head coach. Most P5 coaches end up getting fired for poor performance. It's the gig.

Yeah I know it’s the market rate. Yet he isn’t getting fired for low performance. At practically any other P5 he’d be gone by niw

 

[Scooch]

Yeah I know it’s the market rate. Yet he isn’t getting fired for low performance. At practically any other P5 he’d be gone by niw

He'll get fired eventually, maybe as soon as the end of the 2023 season. Hopefully later because he has a great year in 2023. I don't think Dino is a very good coach. At his best he's average, at his worst he's bad. I just don't get torqued off about his compensation.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

He'll get fired eventually, maybe as soon as the end of the 2023 season. Hopefully later because he has a great year in 2023. I don't think Dino is a very good coach. At his best he's average, at his worst he's bad. I just don't get torqued off about his compensation.

Yep, that is where I am at. he gets 2023 to try and get to another bowl game

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Dino isn't going anywhere.
And I don't even want him gone after this year. I like him and view this as a step forward. He gets one more year to take another.
That said, the idea that no matter what, we won't eat a buyout frustrates me.
You see schools paying tens and tens of millions in buyouts.
Look, I bleed Orange, but as a football first fan (i've always been more football than hoops), I sometimes, just sometimes, wish I went to a school that prioritized the sport.
Again, not saying I want anyone gone. Just wish it wasn't off the table if the situation warranted.

 

[Scooch]

Yep, that is where I am at. he gets 2023 to try and get to another bowl game

Honestly, if he got fired after BC it wouldn't bother me. I've seen enough in 7 years to know that he's not a very good coach. But I'm not passionate about it either. He'll come back and I guess we just have to hope we stay healthier next season. Shrug.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

He'll get fired eventually, maybe as soon as the end of the 2023 season. Hopefully later because he has a great year in 2023. I don't think Dino is a very good coach. At his best he's average, at his worst he's bad. I just don't get torqued off about his compensation.

No clue when his contract expires but if he has 2 years left, IMO we should extend him 2 years with a much more favorable buy out for both parties to make it fair. Otherwise recruiting will suffer and you dig a bigger hole for the next guy. Having questions if he is staying or going will make recruiting even harder next year. Making a "commitment" now will help that, while also leaving a way out if need be after 2023.

 

[Scooch]

No clue when his contract expires but if he has 2 years left, IMO we should extend him 2 years with a much more favorable buy out for both parties to make it fair. Otherwise recruiting will suffer and you dig a bigger hole for the next guy. Having questions if he is staying or going will make recruiting even harder next year. Making a "commitment" now will help that, while also leaving a way out if need be after 2023.

I always find these extension plans silly. What recruit are we tricking into thinking that he's more secure in his job by doing that? Everyone we're involved with knows about this late season collapse, and they know he'll be on a hot seat next year.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I always find these extension plans silly. What recruit are we tricking into thinking that he's more secure in his job by doing that? Everyone we're involved with knows about this late season collapse, and they know he'll be on a hot seat next year.

There is a lot of negative recruiting going on. If a kid asks how long is coach's contract and hears 2024 vs 2026, you don't think that will have any factor? It won't be THE factor, but if all things are generally equal between team A and SU, why would a kid choose SU?

 

[Scooch]

There is a lot of negative recruiting going on. If a kid asks how long is coach's contract and hears 2024 vs 2026, you don't think that will have any factor? It won't be THE factor, but if all things are generally equal between team A and SU, why would a kid choose SU?

No, it won't have any impact. Again, you think we can trick a kid. So one of our assistants tells Johnny Recruit that Dino has a contract through 2026. And some assistant at a competing program tells him afterwards that the school did that for appearances, and Dino is probably gone if SU doesn't win 6 next season. Do you think the recruit and his family are dumb? They're going to think Dino's job is safe and sound?

A recruit will choose SU for all the same reasons they choose SU last season, or during the Shafer, Marrone and Robinson eras. It won't be influenced by a fake extension.

Plus, with the ability to transfer and be immediately eligible, it really doesn't matter anyway. Kid loves Dino, Dino gets fired, kid goes somewhere else.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Honestly, if he got fired after BC it wouldn't bother me. I've seen enough in 7 years to know that he's not a very good coach. But I'm not passionate about it either. He'll come back and I guess we just have to hope we stay healthier next season. Shrug.

yeah be nice to beat BC at least but I am not so sure about any of it anymore. We all know Dino would be back as soon as they beat NC st but you certainly can't get involved with any extension that would require another buy out etc.

The recruiting class will always suffer the year a coach is fired or leaves anyway as the kids are either going to go elsewhere or several transfer out which is fine but people who want to extend for recruiting purposes especially in today's current landscape sounds kind of crazy to me. Who knows?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

No, it won't have any impact. Again, you think we can trick a kid. So one of our assistants tells Johnny Recruit that Dino has a contract through 2026. And some assistant at a competing program tells him afterwards that the school did that for appearances, and Dino is probably gone if SU doesn't win 6 next season. Do you think the recruit and his family are dumb? They're going to think Dino's job is safe and sound?

A recruit will choose SU for all the same reasons they choose SU last season, or during the Shafer, Marrone and Robinson eras. It won't be influenced by a fake extension.

Plus, with the ability to transfer and be immediately eligible, it really doesn't matter anyway. Kid loves Dino, Dino gets fired, kid goes somewhere else.

100% agree with this. Phony extensions aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Changing coaches will always result in turmoil a drop in recruiting and defections. It's going to be another regime that as fans once again we will have to be patient with and give them time and most likely will get worse before it gets better and it can absolutely get worse

 

[JeremyCuse]

No, it won't have any impact. Again, you think we can trick a kid. So one of our assistants tells Johnny Recruit that Dino has a contract through 2026. And some assistant at a competing program tells him afterwards that the school did that for appearances, and Dino is probably gone if SU doesn't win 6 next season. Do you think the recruit and his family are dumb? They're going to think Dino's job is safe and sound?

A recruit will choose SU for all the same reasons they choose SU last season, or during the Shafer, Marrone and Robinson eras. It won't be influenced by a fake extension.

Plus, with the ability to transfer and be immediately eligible, it really doesn't matter anyway. Kid loves Dino, Dino gets fired, kid goes somewhere else.

This is 100% accurate, the extension of a coach whose near the end of his deal and in danger of being let go is always meaningless, can't recall one time it's ever worked. As you noted its 2022 these recruits parents aren't stupid, its clear Babers isn't exactly Saban with job security, putting another year or 2 on the deal is pointless.

 

[money3189]

I think in Hafley's case he is a recruiter and BC needs to be coached up, just like us. When it comes to recruiting we need to take raw Northeast talent and mold it. IMO there is plenty of hidden talent. We don't need a recruiter as much as a talent evaluator, who can see it.

Yes, I agree but its both. Need to get the best you can get and find hidden talent that you can mold. You cant have more than half of your roster with kids that may or may not develop. Its too risky. The obvious prospects are easy to evaluate. As far as the hidden gems, evaluators might be able to see the talent but its not a guarantee that talent develops into what you envisioned. It just makes it harder to determine how much time you spend recruiting the region for hidden gems and how much time you spend in other parts of the country. Now we have transfer portal and NIL opportunities. It makes out developing and out scheming coaches with more talent even more challenging.

 

[money3189]

yeah be nice to beat BC at least but I am not so sure about any of it anymore. We all know Dino would be back as soon as they beat NC st but you certainly can't get involved with any extension that would require another buy out etc.

The recruiting class will always suffer the year a coach is fired or leaves anyway as the kids are either going to go elsewhere or several transfer out which is fine but people who want to extend for recruiting purposes especially in today's current landscape sounds kind of crazy to me. Who knows?

Good points

 

[tbonezone]

You can still catch Dino live at the Landmark next season performing "THESE CATS ARE ALL FAMILY "

 

[CousCuse]

Yes, I agree but its both. Need to get the best you can get and find hidden talent that you can mold. You cant have more than half of your roster with kids that may or may not develop. Its too risky. The obvious prospects are easy to evaluate. As far as the hidden gems, evaluators might be able to see the talent but its not a guarantee that talent develops into what you envisioned. It just makes it harder to determine how much time you spend recruiting the region for hidden gems and how much time you spend in other parts of the country. Now we have transfer portal and NIL opportunities. It makes out developing and out scheming coaches with more talent even more challenging.

I think that is where Syracuse needs to build its depth from, the hidden gems and undeveloped regional talent. I don't think those guys will be in a hurry to hit the portal, it would take them a couple 3 years to develop anyways, Look at Jobity, there are more out there. I even see some guys in the Empire 8 league who look like they could play at least backup roles in P5.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

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Yes, I agree but its both. Need to get the best you can get and find hidden talent that you can mold. You cant have more than half of your roster with kids that may or may not develop. Its too risky. The obvious prospects are easy to evaluate. As far as the hidden gems, evaluators might be able to see the talent but its not a guarantee that talent develops into what you envisioned. It just makes it harder to determine how much time you spend recruiting the region for hidden gems and how much time you spend in other parts of the country. Now we have transfer portal and NIL opportunities. It makes out developing and out scheming coaches with more talent even more challenging.

That is what Florida and Southern kids are for. Those we need a recruiter for. Northeast not so much.

 

[money3189]

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That is what Florida and Southern kids are for. Those we need a recruiter for. Northeast not so much.

The top prospects down south need to see a lot more than 4 winning seasons in 18 years to be convinced to come up north. Harder to get them. I dont mind getting some Trill Williams and Duce Chestnut types from the northeast.

 

[OburgOrange]

Dino isn't going anywhere.
And I don't even want him gone after this year. I like him and view this as a step forward. He gets one more year to take another.
That said, the idea that no matter what, we won't eat a buyout frustrates me.
You see schools paying tens and tens of millions in buyouts.
Look, I bleed Orange, but as a football first fan (i've always been more football than hoops), I sometimes, just sometimes, wish I went to a school that prioritized the sport.
Again, not saying I want anyone gone. Just wish it wasn't off the table if the situation warranted.

So if we won’t fire him because we can’t afford the buyout, that’s on the AD and fiscal mismanagement

 

[dan7800]

Is there evidence that we aren't getting rid of him because we don't want to pay the buyout, or could be be due to the internal strife amongst the upper administration?