A Thought on Dino's Contract

[Janner]

Don't like it, then make some big donations to the school so that you can tell JW what to do like the trustees can.

I most certainly would if I could, but my current donations to the university, small as they are, are all I can afford. Now that I think about it, I might do the opposite. Might be time for me to stop what little megar support I am currently providing until things change. You definitely gave me something to think about.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Is there evidence that we aren't getting rid of him because we don't want to pay the buyout, or could be be due to the internal strife amongst the upper administration?

I am not aware of internal strife although it's certainly possible. I was told explicitly that SU would have moved on last year but the buyout was to rich for those outside the AD's office to sign off on. Wildhack does a great presentation in public but if you believe the rumblings he was ready to move on last year.

 

[MSOrange]

I am not aware of internal strife although it's certainly possible. I was told explicitly that SU would have moved on last year but the buyout was to rich for those outside the AD's office to sign off on. Wildhack does a great presentation in public but if you believe the rumblings he was ready to move on last year.

And I think that brings up a good point that ADJW can’t just spend that kind of money without approval. You can however blame him for the buyout being as high as it is if you want.

 

[JeremyCuse]

So if we won’t fire him because we can’t afford the buyout, that’s on the AD and fiscal mismanagement

It's not they don't have it, they don't want to spend what it will take plus the costs of a new staff knowing that the longer they wait the more it goes down. I believe it's essentially nothing next year.

 

[OburgOrange]

It's not they don't have it, they don't want to spend what it will take plus the costs of a new staff knowing that the longer they wait the more it goes down. I believe it's essentially nothing next year.

Even worse. Sign a guy to a huge buyout, then decide you don’t want to spend the money to get rid of him. Clown show

 

[JeremyCuse]

And I think that brings up a good point that ADJW can’t just spend that kind of money without approval. You can however blame him for the buyout being as high as it is if you want.

100%, the extension was put in place with high buyouts to protect SU in case someone poached Dino. You can't blame them for putting that in at the time. Unfortunately its become an albatross and made it nearly impossible for SU to move on.

That said, if there is one thing Wildhack hates its to be blown out/embarrassed on national TV. Dino has largely avoided that save for the FSU game as even ND was somewhat close for 3 quarters. That said a bad performance against BC could move him to take action though at this point I am 95% sure he will be back.

 

[Chip]

Honestly, if he got fired after BC it wouldn't bother me. I've seen enough in 7 years to know that he's not a very good coach. But I'm not passionate about it either. He'll come back and I guess we just have to hope we stay healthier next season. Shrug.

Yeah, I really don't care at this point. Fire him, keep him, whatever. Next year we'll probably start out pretty good and end pretty bad.

New hire could protect the couple top recruits, but would probably be way more pound the portal dependent. These things aren't rebuilds anymore.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Even worse. Sign a guy to a huge buyout, then decide you don’t want to spend the money to get rid of him. Clown show

Well in theory yes but remember the buyout was to protect SU, they never believed they would have to face paying it themselves. Wildhack's caught in the middle as he wants to spend $$ on a new coach but your not going to get the University to sign off when its 10mill + to get rid of the clock management master. Keep in mind the whole JB saga is spinning at the same time so you cant shoot for the moon on removing Dino and then find out a month later JB's had enough and know you need another 5-8 million.

 

[OburgOrange]

Well in theory yes but remember the buyout was to protect SU, they never believed they would have to face paying it themselves. Wildhack's caught in the middle as he wants to spend $$ on a new coach but your not going to get the University to sign off when its 10mill + to get rid of the clock management master. Keep in mind the whole JB saga is spinning at the same time so you cant shoot for the moon on removing Dino and then find out a month later JB's had enough and know you need another 5-8 million.

Having to pay a buyout to fire a coach should be part of the equation. JW never believed he would face paying it? Really? I know what you’re saying Jeremy, but still..did JW view Dino as the second coming of Saban?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think after next year they can do whatever they want with regard to Dino and be OK with it. Winning another game or two this year would help take some of the sting away here.

I still don't want to start over again but no bowl game next year he would most likely not be retained.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Having to pay a buyout to fire a coach should be part of the equation. JW never believed he would face paying it? Really? I know what you’re saying Jeremy, but still..did JW view Dino as the second coming of Saban?

He gambled on retaining a coach after the best season the program had in 17 years. He gambled and he lost. Dino had a lot of leverage at that point as well. It happens but most here have a crystal ball that I forgot about. Covid wasn't a great help either

 

[721Comstock]

Having to pay a buyout to fire a coach should be part of the equation. JW never believed he would face paying it? Really? I know what you’re saying Jeremy, but still..did JW view Dino as the second coming of Saban?

When the deal/extension was signed, Dino had built us up to a 10 win season, our first Top 25 ranking in ages, and with noteworthy Top 25 wins in the prior seasons vs/ Clemson, VaTech, etc.

Clearly the concern was more of:
we need to protect ourselves against Dino getting raided by the Football Factory programs of the world.
and not
we need to make it affordable for if/when we want to kick him to the curb sometime down the road.

It's not that he was 2nd coming of Saban, Dabo, or anybody else.
It's just what you have to do when you're an also-ran P5 program who seemed to have caught lightning in a bottle with a coaching hire.

So, while I seriously doubt that ADJW never believed he'd be paying the buyout, he likely thought the odds of it were very, very low.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Having to pay a buyout to fire a coach should be part of the equation. JW never believed he would face paying it? Really? I know what you’re saying Jeremy, but still..did JW view Dino as the second coming of Saban?

I get your point but after 2018 the assumption by most was that if Dino came anywhere close to that again in the next 2 years he was likely to be poached. Making the buyout that high stops most schools from making a run at him but not the big boys and pretty much the entire SEC save for Vandy. Even if he was poached it sets SU with a bunch of $$$ to make the next hire a splash. Unfortunately the downside is that if 2018 is a fluke (which it appears to have been) your stuck with an enormous buyout and SU has shown in the past it's not going to spend what's necessary to move on from coaches. It's why Robinson got a 4th year and Pasqualoni was here as long as he was. Unfortunately the extension backfired and SU is stuck waiting until it gets to a reasonable amount to move on. Only an SEC type school or a Michigan Or OHio State was moving on after 2020 or 2021. LSU we are not.

 

[djorange1989]

I think after next year they can do whatever they want with regard to Dino and be OK with it. Winning another game or two this year would help take some of the sting away here.

I still don't want to start over again but no bowl game next year he would most likely not be retained.

yeah, I can't see a scenario where he is retained if we don't go to a bowl next year, it shouldn't cost a lot to buy him out at that point. Especially if JW decided to hire from within with White, that wouldn't cost a ton of cash, as opposed to bringing in a HC from another school. either way, no bowl in 2023 has to mean the end for DB.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

yeah, I can't see a scenario where he is retained if we don't go to a bowl next year, it shouldn't cost a lot to buy him out at that point. Especially if JW decided to hire from within with White, that wouldn't cost a ton of cash, as opposed to bringing in a HC from another school. either way, no bowl in 2023 has to mean the end for DB.

Agreed. I think everyone knows the score for next year, pretty cut and dry, IMO

 

[money3189]

I think that is where Syracuse needs to build its depth from, the hidden gems and undeveloped regional talent. I don't think those guys will be in a hurry to hit the portal, it would take them a couple 3 years to develop anyways, Look at Jobity, there are more out there. I even see some guys in the Empire 8 league who look like they could play at least backup roles in P5.

totally agree. Some of these kids can be good or provide good depth. We just cant afford to have a roster full of Jobity's. Development can go either way.

 

[OburgOrange]

T

He gambled on retaining a coach after the best season the program had in 17 years. He gambled and he lost. Dino had a lot of leverage at that point as well. It happens but most here have a crystal ball that I forgot about. Covid wasn't a great help either

There you go. He gambled and lost. Got himself stuck with a contract in which he can’t afford the buyout. Oh, and Covid, forgot.

Thing is.I like Babers and want h8m to succeed. Im having a hard time understanding why he Would sign a contract in which he couldn’t get out of if he wanted to, he’s stuck, and so are we. But the answer is….he gambled

 

[FloridaFan]

Live look at Wildhacks office

 

[Bayside44]

T

There you go. He gambled and lost. Got himself stuck with a contract in which he can’t afford the buyout. Oh, and Covid, forgot.

Thing is.I like Babers and want h8m to succeed. Im having a hard time understanding why he Would sign a contract in which he couldn’t get out of if he wanted to, he’s stuck, and so are we. But the answer is….he gambled

Multi-season sports contracts are basically all risk / reward gambles. The Knicks have about 25 consecutive years of em.

 

[CousCuse]

Agreed. I think everyone knows the score for next year, pretty cut and dry, IMO

The expectations are pretty low, 6-6 and everyone would be fine with it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

T

There you go. He gambled and lost. Got himself stuck with a contract in which he can’t afford the buyout. Oh, and Covid, forgot.

Thing is.I like Babers and want h8m to succeed. Im having a hard time understanding why he Would sign a contract in which he couldn’t get out of if he wanted to, he’s stuck, and so are we. But the answer is….he gambled

And there is a risk involved in every contract negotiation. It's not uncommon. Again, you act as if he had a crystal ball. It's business. You live with it and deal with what's in front of you. Make the best decision with the information he had available at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20 and some have a tougher time dealing with that than others

Look at Jimbo Fisher, same issue on a larger scale. You don't think A&M is dying to get rid of him. If he was winning nobody would care. Michigan St, FSU, Florida, Nebraska, Wisconsin, ASU, LSU, Auburn, Miami 5 x over the list is endless of AD's that have signed coaches to a contract that did not pan out. Just need a few boosters that care enough to write the check but if they don't exist then you are stuck

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The expectations are pretty low, 6-6 and everyone would be fine with it.

I don't disagree at all.

 

[CousCuse]

totally agree. Some of these kids can be good or provide good depth. We just cant afford to have a roster full of Jobity's. Development can go either way.

I'm only making suggestions for a possible strategy to bolster depth as the remains a fundamental problem for the program. If you got guys from across the state that weren't really recruited very much if at all, I think they would be happy to stay for 4-5 years and get an SU degree.

 

[CousCuse]

I don't disagree at all.

Dino has managed that well.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I get your point but after 2018 the assumption by most was that if Dino came anywhere close to that again in the next 2 years he was likely to be poached. Making the buyout that high stops most schools from making a run at him but not the big boys and pretty much the entire SEC save for Vandy. Even if he was poached it sets SU with a bunch of $$$ to make the next hire a splash. Unfortunately the downside is that if 2018 is a fluke (which it appears to have been) your stuck with an enormous buyout and SU has shown in the past it's not going to spend what's necessary to move on from coaches. It's why Robinson got a 4th year and Pasqualoni was here as long as he was. Unfortunately the extension backfired and SU is stuck waiting until it gets to a reasonable amount to move on. Only an SEC type school or a Michigan Or OHio State was moving on after 2020 or 2021. LSU we are not.

I think the risk of a HC leaving is smaller than we make it out to be. You don't see many P5 HCs moving from one school to another. When you do, it is usually leaving to reunite with an AD, leaving for where you are from or went to school, or leaving a mess. If you had a $5M buyout it likely is enough to deter a lateral move, while leaving the window open should you need to fire the HC. Now we know this for future contracts.