ACC changing conference schedule format?

[nzm136]

Combine my posts, and it’s:

SU: BC - Pitt - WF (most likely and middle case)/VT (middle likelihood and best case)/UL (least likely and worst case)

As such, I’ll be deeply annoyed if we get stuck with UL.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Bottom line, ACC football players should be given the chance to play every team home and away in a four-year career. What they have now sucks.

Same goes for students as well

 

[Alsacs]

If you assume Duke-GT, you get the following:

BC: SU - Pitt
SU: BC - Pitt
Pitt: SU - BC - Miami (probably)

UL:
VT: UVA
UVA: VT - UNC (South’s Oldest Rivalry)

UNC: UVA - Duke (rival) - NCSU (instate public)
Duke: UNC - GT (Duke-GT assumption) - WF (instate private)
NCSU: UNC - WF (instate + play now) - CU (Textile Bowl)
WF: Duke - NCSU

CU: NCSU - GT (rival) - FSU (rival)
GT: Duke - CU - FSU (FSU alumni base in ATL)
FSU: CU - GT - Miami (rival)
Miami: Pitt - FSU

I’m reasonably confident in the above, which leaves:

BC ... 1 open
SU ... 1 open
UL ... 3 open
VT ... 2 open
UVA ... 1 open
WF .. 1 open
Miami .. 1 open

*I assume UVA would want WF.
*I assume that VT will want UL over SU or BC, and VT will want Miami over SU or BC. Those assumptions necessitate a VT-UL game.

Now the situation is:
BC ... 1
SU ... 1
UL ... 2
VT ... 1
Miami ... 1

If Miami prefers VT over UL, then UL-SU and UL-BC has to happen. Otherwise, one of BC and SU gets UL and the other gets VT. BC-VT is an existing rivalry, but it’s a forced rivalry in name only. SU has played in the same conference as UL, but there’s no real shared history. SU and VT have some memorable games, so, while there’s no real rivalry, there is juice. The ACC also “owes” SU from the raid, esp. at BC/VT’s expense. I imagine VT would get to decide if they have strong feelings, but I doubt that they do. Then I imagine SU is next in line (bigger school than BC, more history, karma from the raid, and a basketball program that contributes to the conference). After SU, I imagine BC has pull and then UL will get what they’re given. I can’t imagine SU turning down VT for UL. So, my guess is SU-VT and BC-UL.

If the above is true, the decision that drives our fate is Miami wanting UL over VT. That decision dictates whether we’d come out looking great (VT) or stuck with the worst possible outcome (UL).

Miami-VT would be a lock.
They have played every year since the Big East and have a solid rivalry.
Also Duke-Wake isn’t a lock as I think UVA-Duke is more likely.
Schools like BC/SU/Wake for football scheduling are going to have to take it up the wazoo.
Which is why I grouped them all together.

 

[All4SU]

I would think Pitt and BC would be a given. Nothing against Louisville, but I have no interest in them. I’d take GT, Miami, UVA or even Wake ahead of them. Maybe even NCSt or VT.

 

[SU94]

Also Duke-Wake isn’t a lock as I think UVA-Duke is more likely.

THIS ^^^^^. Virginia-Duke is happening.
Virginia is going to get what they want.

I doubt it'll be exact, but the closest model to what will become reality is what Alsacs had at the beginning of the thread. It's well thought out.

I still think we end up with BC, Pitt and UL, although the Wake scenario makes some sense. I just don't think anyone wants to play UL, so we'll have to pick up that slack. What we need is Maryland in the ACC, to be honest.

What they should do is stick UL and FSU together, as it was the Seminoles (and Clemson too) who were so staunch about getting the Cardinals in the ACC (over UConn). It was likely the right move, but they should have to shoulder the UL burden due their (fake) dalliance with the BigXII.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If you assume Duke-GT, you get the following:

BC: SU - Pitt
SU: BC - Pitt
Pitt: SU - BC - Miami (probably)

UL:
VT: UVA
UVA: VT - UNC (South’s Oldest Rivalry)

UNC: UVA - Duke (rival) - NCSU (instate public)
Duke: UNC - GT (Duke-GT assumption) - WF (instate private)
NCSU: UNC - WF (instate + play now) - CU (Textile Bowl)
WF: Duke - NCSU

CU: NCSU - GT (rival) - FSU (rival)
GT: Duke - CU - FSU (FSU alumni base in ATL)
FSU: CU - GT - Miami (rival)
Miami: Pitt - FSU

I’m reasonably confident in the above, which leaves:

BC ... 1 open
SU ... 1 open
UL ... 3 open
VT ... 2 open
UVA ... 1 open
WF .. 1 open
Miami .. 1 open

*I assume UVA would want WF.
*I assume that VT will want UL over SU or BC, and VT will want Miami over SU or BC. Those assumptions necessitate a VT-UL game.

Now the situation is:
BC ... 1
SU ... 1
UL ... 2
VT ... 1
Miami ... 1

If Miami prefers VT over UL, then UL-SU and UL-BC has to happen. Otherwise, one of BC and SU gets UL and the other gets VT. BC-VT is an existing rivalry, but it’s a forced rivalry in name only. SU has played in the same conference as UL, but there’s no real shared history. SU and VT have some memorable games, so, while there’s no real rivalry, there is juice. The ACC also “owes” SU from the raid, esp. at BC/VT’s expense. I imagine VT would get to decide if they have strong feelings, but I doubt that they do. Then I imagine SU is next in line (bigger school than BC, more history, karma from the raid, and a basketball program that contributes to the conference). After SU, I imagine BC has pull and then UL will get what they’re given. I can’t imagine SU turning down VT for UL. So, my guess is SU-VT and BC-UL.

If the above is true, the decision that drives our fate is Miami wanting UL over VT. That decision dictates whether we’d come out looking great (VT) or stuck with the worst possible outcome (UL).

I wouldn't assume that Clemson and FSU want to play yearly. If there are no divisions it is better to have the potential of both teams entering the CCG having not yet played. Also Duke likely rather play UVA than Wake.

 

[Alsacs]

I wouldn't assume that Clemson and FSU want to play yearly. If there are no divisions it is better to have the potential of both teams entering the CCG having not yet played. Also Duke likely rather play UVA than Wake.

They do.
The ACC board on the Ga. Tech board has fans of all the teams.
Florida State wants 3 teams yearly
Miami
Clemson
Georgia Tech.


Georgia Tech is the team closest to their campus.
The conference should want Clemson-Florida State yearly for TV as well.

Clemson wants Florida State yearly as well.

 

[Hoo's That]

Some random observations -
- UVa has to play UNC and Va Tech each year; beyond that, the third slot is wide open.
- Duke has played Ga Tech every year starting in 1937. That probably helped to convince Ga Tech to join the ACC as the replacement for South Carolina.
- Louisville is over 100 miles closer to Va Tech than it is to UVa. The fans on the Louisville board are already clamoring for a switch of the annual crossover game to them from us. The reason they play UVa each year in football and basketball is that when Maryland left, Greensboro simply took everyone's schedules and wherever "Maryland" appeared, they crossed it out and wrote in "Louisville". They even picked up Maryland's home-away rotations in the Olympic Sports.
- As Alsacs mentioned, Ga Tech is the nearest school to Florida State.
- It's easy to overestimate how much say UVa has in choosing its third partner.
- The scheduling won't change until the present rule about championship games is changed. That would require the SEC and B1G to admit the ACC isn't going to implode. The crazy thing is, the big guns of the SEC and B1G, especially Penn State, would benefit the most from 3-5-5.

 

[longtimefan]

Some random observations -
- UVa has to play UNC and Va Tech each year; beyond that, the third slot is wide open.
- Duke has played Ga Tech every year starting in 1937. That probably helped to convince Ga Tech to join the ACC as the replacement for South Carolina.
- Louisville is over 100 miles closer to Va Tech than it is to UVa. The fans on the Louisville board are already clamoring for a switch of the annual crossover game to them from us. The reason they play UVa each year in football and basketball is that when Maryland left, Greensboro simply took everyone's schedules and wherever "Maryland" appeared, they crossed it out and wrote in "Louisville". They even picked up Maryland's home-away rotations in the Olympic Sports.
- As Alsacs mentioned, Ga Tech is the nearest school to Florida State.
- It's easy to overestimate how much say UVa has in choosing its third partner.
- The scheduling won't change until the present rule about championship games is changed. That would require the SEC and B1G to admit the ACC isn't going to implode. The crazy thing is, the big guns of the SEC and B1G, especially Penn State, would benefit the most from 3-5-5.

Re: PSU--
Would their "3" be Rutgers, UMd, and MSU? Not very attractive, but a good start on making the league championship game.

 

[Alsacs]

Re: PSU--
Would their "3" be Rutgers, UMd, and MSU? Not very attractive, but a good start on making the league championship game.

Penn State’s 3 would be Ohio State, Maryland, Rutgers.

Penn State-Ohio State was protected annual when the conference was only 11.
Penn State would benefit because they could make conference title game a lot easier if they didn’t have Ohio State as the division favorite every year.

 

[Hoo's That]

Re: PSU--
Would their "3" be Rutgers, UMd, and MSU? Not very attractive, but a good start on making the league championship game.

Yes. That's what I came up with when I tried to map out the B1G's 3-5-5. They'd do everything they could to keep that OSU and Meeshigan from being in the same rotating slate, so they'd only have to play one of them each year.

 

[Hoo's That]

Penn State’s 3 would be Ohio State, Maryland, Rutgers.

Penn State-Ohio State was protected annual when the conference was only 11.
Penn State would benefit because they could make conference title game a lot easier if they didn’t have Ohio State as the division favorite every year.

I came up with:
PSU - Rutgers, UMd, Michigan State (who can forget the Land Grant Trophy!)
thatOSU - Michigan, Michigan State, one of Rutgers/UMd,
Michigan - that OSU, Michigan State, the other of Rutgers/UMd
Michigan State - Michigan, PSU, thatOSU (no change to their brutal schedule)
UMd - PSU, Rutgers, one of Michigan/thatOSU
Rutgers - PSU, UMd, the other of Michigan/thatOSU
Illinois - Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
Purdue - Indian, Northwestern, Illinois
Northwestern - Illinois, Indiana, Purdue
Indiana - Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
Iowa - Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Wisconsin - Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska
Nebraska - Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Minnesota - Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska

I think PSU would like to split thatOSU and Meeshigan to make their path to the championship game easier.

 

[Alsacs]

I came up with:
PSU - Rutgers, UMd, Michigan State (who can forget the Land Grant Trophy!)
thatOSU - Michigan, Michigan State, one of Rutgers/UMd,
Michigan - that OSU, Michigan State, the other of Rutgers/UMd
Michigan State - Michigan, PSU, thatOSU (no change to their brutal schedule)
UMd - PSU, Rutgers, one of Michigan/thatOSU
Rutgers - PSU, UMd, the other of Michigan/thatOSU
Illinois - Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
Purdue - Indian, Northwestern, Illinois
Northwestern - Illinois, Indiana, Purdue
Indiana - Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
Iowa - Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Wisconsin - Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska
Nebraska - Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Minnesota - Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska

I think PSU would like to split thatOSU and Meeshigan to make their path to the championship game easier.

Before the Big Ten expanded from 11 to 12 each Big Ten team got to protect 2 games that were played every year.
7 of the 8 rotated yearly.

Penn State’s 2 protected teams were Ohio State and Michigan State.
They would prefer Ohio State.

 

[nzm136]

Miami-VT would be a lock.
They have played every year since the Big East and have a solid rivalry.
Also Duke-Wake isn’t a lock as I think UVA-Duke is more likely.
Schools like BC/SU/Wake for football scheduling are going to have to take it up the wazoo.
Which is why I grouped them all together.

Miami - VT could very well be the case.

I can see an argument for Duke-UVA, but I don’t see Duke going to 1 protected North Carolina game. (UNC + 1.5 a year seems low). I also think that Wake dropping to 1 North Carolina game would be difficult. IMHO, the North Carolina schools have enough clout to give each school (+UVA) at least 2 of what they want. UVA would have UNC and VT, even without adding Duke.

 

[nzm136]

Before the Big Ten expanded from 11 to 12 each Big Ten team got to protect 2 games that were played every year.
7 of the 8 rotated yearly.

Penn State’s 2 protected teams were Ohio State and Michigan State.
They would prefer Ohio State.

There’s no way PSU doesn’t get UMD and RU after being the reason why they were invited

I do think they’d get tOSU, though.

Ohio State would get Michigan, Penn State, and TBD.

 

[Alsacs]

There’s no way PSU doesn’t get UMD and RU after being the reason why they were invited

I do think they’d get tOSU, though.

Ohio State would get Michigan, Penn State, and TBD.

My point was about Ohio State vs Michigan State for PSU.
Maryland and Rutgers would clearly be 2 of Penn State’s 3.
Ohio State would be their 3rd IMO.
Ohio State IMO would want Michigan, Penn State and Illinois. The Illini before the Big Ten expanded used to be 2nd to last game for OSU a lot. They have a trophy game IlliniBuck trophy.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I want the Hokies.

Yeah, me too.

 

[nzm136]

Yeah, me too.

I think we all do.

 

[syrBossHogg]

 

[syrBossHogg]

 

[longtimefan]

My point was about Ohio State vs Michigan State for PSU.
Maryland and Rutgers would clearly be 2 of Penn State’s 3.
Ohio State would be their 3rd IMO.
Ohio State IMO would want Michigan, Penn State and Illinois. The Illini before the Big Ten expanded used to be 2nd to last game for OSU a lot. They have a trophy game IlliniBuck trophy.

Practically every B1G game is played for some cockamamie trophy.

 

[Moontan]

Psst... there’s this scheduling scheme referred to as 3-5-5... John should look into that...

 

[syrBossHogg]

Psst... there’s this scheduling scheme referred to as 3-5-5... John should look into that...

I think putting both of ADJW's comments together he would be in favor of the 3-5-5 format

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Psst... there’s this scheduling scheme referred to as 3-5-5... John should look into that...

3-5-5 means playing as 1 division, with the top 2 teams meeting in the ACCGC.

Do we need NCAA permission to make this happen permanently, or was this year just allowed due to Covid?

 

[sutomcat]

I think putting both of ADJW's comments together he would be in favor of the 3-5-5 format

I would bet he is aware of it and is a big proponent. Is the only thing holding it back frorm happening the B1G and its dim witted leadership? With Delaney finally gone, might they finally see this is something that they can benefit from as well and support it?

One can hope.