ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment | Page 165 | Syracusefan.com

ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

Nobody with a brain will want any team from New England, It is the totally dead region for Major college sports. The ACC taking BC was, as I predicted then, a very bad move that could seriously cripple the league. WVU should have been the 12th member. That alone could not have saved us, but it would have made certain we had more football spark and fury in terms of hated rivals - WVU fans hate everybody, and they watch games religiously. New Englanders just ignore BC.
We never understood taking BC back in '04. I hate lazy fan/media narrative of lumping Syracuse in with Wake and BC. Syracuse despite mostly crappy football and declining hoops is solidly in the middle of the ACC lineup for TV viewership and revenue generation.
 
FSU’s next move is to convince enough teams to leave the ACC to dissolve the league.

The end of the PAC started the consolidation. The key players right now for FSU aren’t the teams guaranteed a seat at the table like UNC etc…it will be figuring out which swing votes like Syracuse are gonna get nervous and want a seat in the Big 12. FSU needs to work the Big 12 leadership.

“Hey Syracuse, you can get in the Big 12 ahead of Pitt, BC etc if you vote to dissolve the ACC…work with us…”

To me, that’s the play. Get someone to help you dissolve the ACC, especially a school that has no sentimental attachment.
The Big12 only works for us if they go to 20 teams and we build a 5 team Pod of: WVU, Pitt, Cuse, BC/Yukon and UCF/Miami

That said I prefer the ACC even without FSU.
 
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We never understood taking BC back in '04. I hate lazy fan/media narrative of lumping Syracuse in with Wake and BC. Syracuse despite mostly crappy football and declining hoops is solidly in the middle of the ACC lineup for TV viewership and revenue generation.
Yep which is why, amongst other reasons too, why we are going to find a home(likely the Big 12) when the ACC inevitably blows up down the line. Yormark would take us today if we were available, slam dunk
 
We never understood taking BC back in '04. I hate lazy fan/media narrative of lumping Syracuse in with Wake and BC. Syracuse despite mostly crappy football and declining hoops is solidly in the middle of the ACC lineup for TV viewership and revenue generation.
I think you're underestimating appeal of BC over us. You think schools would rather road trip to Boston or Syracuse? Stay in Boston hotels or Syracuse hotels? Take flights to Boston or Syracuse? Sightsee after playing in Boston or Syracuse? Throw in the fact that academically, it's not close anymore.
 
The FSU AD flat out rigged the ACC $$ data for the first outburst a few months ago. He is appealing to the idiot FB insecure Trustees.
Yeah he did. He puts up the chart with the ACC tv deal showing $17 million. I'm thinking, "Yeah but what about the ACCN TV money and what about the escalators?" The BOR fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.
 
I don’t believe this is true re Alabama, Michigan, etc. To me, this is like NASCAR. A regional sport that only certain people care about. Syracuse football has never existed to the people down south for example and it never will exist. They don’t really care and the coastal elites don’t care much about college football the way these fans do either. Once the BCs and the SUs aren’t a part of first tier college football anymore, there will be far fewer reasons for any of those coastals to pay attention even a little bit. So, those chosen few schools will continue to play football in a NASCAR like manner with crazy fans and great matchups but most of the rest of the country won’t give a hoot, but neither will they. As long as ‘Bama plays Auburn every year, all is well in the world.
I agree and with gambling, people/fans will always care.
 
No it’s not. That is NC law for a Not for profit. Look it up.

I have read it. Why would it apply to the ACC?

Is the ACC incorporated? That right there ends the discussion of the law.

Second, even if the ACC was incorporated the law would only apply if there is no ACC bylaw for dissolution. If the ACC has nothing, it would make the ACC leadership a bunch of morons. We have seen conferences lose two thirds of its members and not dissolve, yet the ACC only needs half?

Third, any school that did not vote for dissolution would be able to bring a lawsuit against those who did as the purpose of the dissolution was to bypass the exit fees and not stop operations in the business (college sports).

Fourth, even if the ACC dissolved it would not end the GOR.

This is all internet folklore. We haven't seen any reputable person say any of this is true. It is kookery.
 
Yep which is why, amongst other reasons too, why we are going to find a home(likely the Big 12) when the ACC inevitably blows up down the line. Yormark would take us today if we were available, slam dunk
Kudos once again to Yormark for having the foresight & cujones to attack this thing proactively.
Despite the GOR the ACC is once again passively asleep at the wheel as the world changed around them. To hear that they were having "discussions" with Pac12 teams sounds like another case of "too little, too late".
The GOR might keep things stable for another 5-7 years, but eventually the FSU's of this conference will get their way, and it'll be toast. And frankly, ESPN is really not in a position to help right now, and why should they? The contract works in their favor.
 
I think you're underestimating appeal of BC over us. You think schools would rather road trip to Boston or Syracuse? Stay in Boston hotels or Syracuse hotels? Take flights to Boston or Syracuse? Sightsee after playing in Boston or Syracuse? Throw in the fact that academically, it's not close anymore.
You make good points but the problem is that no one in Boston cares about B.C. sports and that shows up in people not attending games and people not watching them on tv. We bring more money to the table and at the end of the day, that is what matters most.
 
So it sounds like we really to put together two strong years in both football and hoops and keep our names on the tip of everyone's tongue when talking future of the ACC and /or where the other 3 conferences should expand.

Show strong TV viewership. Attend non-conference away games (Purdue this year/Tenn coming up). And spray paint the S logo all over your town.
 
You make good points but the problem is that no one in Boston cares about B.C. sports and that shows up in people not attending games and people not watching them on tv. We bring more money to the table and at the end of the day, that is what matters most.
It also has to matter somehow that, while Syracuse is not located within the NYC media market, it is in close proximity and virtually all SU football and basketball games can be viewed there. Plus there are a whole lot of intense SU alumni there.
 
Kudos once again to Yormark for having the foresight & cujones to attack this thing proactively.
Despite the GOR the ACC is once again passively asleep at the wheel as the world changed around them. To hear that they were having "discussions" with Pac12 teams sounds like another case of "too little, too late".
The GOR might keep things stable for another 5-7 years, but eventually the FSU's of this conference will get their way, and it'll be toast. And frankly, ESPN is really not in a position to help right now, and why should they? The contract works in their favor.
The ACC sucks and I am not defending them at all but it wouldn’t have mattered with the PAC 12 teams IMO, I am 99% sure the 4 teams who went Big 12 much preferred that conference over the ACC and UW and Oregon going Big 10 was a no-brainer. I agree that the ACC probably has 5-7 years left. Closer to 2036 they get, it gets more affordable to bail. The best thing about the Big 12 is that there are no big shots in the conference who think they should be making more than the other members. At least that will be the case starting in 2024
 
We never understood taking BC back in '04. I hate lazy fan/media narrative of lumping Syracuse in with Wake and BC. Syracuse despite mostly crappy football and declining hoops is solidly in the middle of the ACC lineup for TV viewership and revenue generation.
BC was 49-21 between 99-04, and went 45-22 first five years in ACC

So those ten years they were 94-43. That's why they were grabbed.

I would kill for a ten year stretch like that again.

They are 65-83 last twelve years. They haven't sustained their early ACC success.
 
The best thing about the Big 12 is that there are no big shots in the conference who think they should be making more than the other members. At least that will be the case starting in 2024
This will be the next shoe to drop, IMO. At some point it's gonna devolve to teams within conferences wanting more because they bring more "value". The FSU thing is a preview of what's to come, in every conference, down the road.
 
BC was 49-21 between 99-04, and went 45-22 first five years in ACC

So those ten years they were 94-43. That's why they were grabbed.

I would kill for a ten year stretch like that again.

They are 65-83 last twelve years. They haven't sustained their early ACC success.
I wouldn't kill, but definitely maim, for a stretch like that.
 
Whoever posted above that the GOR is a speed bump is correct.

FSU will figure it out - one way or another. As will Clemson, Miami and NC. There's too much at stake. Only thing I'm not sure about is whether FSU will go to the SEC or B12 - dunno if UF wants FSU in the SEC.

Hopefully, Wildhack earns his $$ and cements our place (somehow) in the B10. Because it's just a matter of time.

And we ain't getting in the SEC - nor would we want to.

I love CFB and I love SU football. More than hoops. As an alum - this whole thing sucks.
 
Whoever posted above that the GOR is a speed bump is correct.

FSU will figure it out - one way or another. As will Clemson, Miami and NC. There's too much at stake. Only thing I'm not sure about is whether FSU will go to the SEC or B12 - dunno if UF wants FSU in the SEC.

Hopefully, Wildhack earns his $$ and cements our place (somehow) in the B10. Because it's just a matter of time.

And we ain't getting in the SEC - nor would we want to.

I love CFB and I love SU football. More than hoops. As an alum - this whole thing sucks.
Lol about the GOR being a "speed bump". That's patently ridiculous, IMO.
That so-called speed bump has never been challenged in a court of law, and dollars to donuts that's because any lawyer who analyzes it realizes it would be a lost cause. Every school that's moved has either waited out the GOR, or paid substantial fees to bypass it. Sounds like much more of an impediment than that description seems to suggest.
 
Lol about the GOR being a "speed bump". That's patently ridiculous, IMO.
That so-called speed bump has never been challenged in a court of law, and dollars to donuts that's because every lawyer who analyzes it realizes it would be a lost cause. Every school that's moved has either waited out the GOR, or paid substantial fees to bypass it. Sounds like much more of an impediment than that description seems to suggest.
I respect your posts. And I'm also a corporate lawyer - for nearly 30 years. As I'm certain you will agree, there is no such thing as a contract that can't be broken - may cost an arm and a leg - but it can, and will be broken.

Look at the PGA merging with LIV. A year ago this would be unimaginable.
 
FSU is seeking a deal with the devil. There are several potential egregious violations.

The first being the ACC and GOR. The ACC must agree to a school leaving and FSU is not likely to garner enough support. The GOR was voluntarily entered into by FSU. FSU can leave but there TV rights belong to the ACC.

The second being the obvious elephant in the room: FSU is a State school, must keep all decision public, and must not violate the non-profit status of the school. A private equity deal will require that the investors receive a return on investment (ROI). In a venture, this is usually credit card or more expectations. Since the investors cannot get blood form a stone (non-profits cannot release "profits", they must be re-invested), the investors would seek a long term loan with an exorbitant interest rate.

The third being that rich donors can meet the demand via donations, which is much safer, cleaner, and open to scrutiny (this is a state institution!). Could it be that the donors don't think FSU needs the extra cash? Or worse, that the extra cash is not a good investment? Either position by the doors undercuts the equity financing argument, if donors don't see the benefit, how will equity partners? Remember, donors are seeking to benefit the school, equity partners are there to make money.

The fourth being that ESPN must agree to any move (lateral to SEC or separation to the B1G or Big12). There is no business model where ESPN kills off a larger profit center to minimally enhance another profit center. From ESPN's perspective, it would be better to merge the conferences, pay them roughly equally, or work with everyone to ensure a soft landing and keep the key components. We have not had any inkling to this kind of activity; this leads me to believe that the ACCN remains too valuable to the ESPN to make the sacrifices moving FSU out would cause.
- ESPN CANNOT legally work a deal behind the ACC's collective back. ESPN would need to work any deals in the open, ESPN cannot facilitate the move of FSU to the SEC unless all parties agree to the facilitation AND approve the interference. Disney/ESPN know not to get into an antitrust matter.

The fifth being that FSU has no arranged landing spot. The B1G and the SEC are the two that can pay anything. The Big12 cannot pay FSU's demands, in short, a move to the Big12 would undercut every FSU argument and cost more to leave than FSU would recoup in new revenues.

Unless FSU comes clean on how the deal works, and everything is above board, the FSU leadership seems to lack knowledge and ethics.

FSU's shortfall of $30MM annually is not a substantive argument, worthy of voiding a contract. A court is not likely to agree that the potential to earn money when a breach cannot be reasonably made or when the fundamental liquidated damages are established for anything less than that established.

Since FSU is going nowhere this school year, there remains 12 years in play. Assuming FSU's claim of $30/MM is acceptable to a court, assume also an exit fee of $126MM (3X annual revenue, likely to be higher as time goes forward), and the absolute minimum TV rights buy back is 12 years of minimum revenue, or $42MM annually, FSU's rights buy back is $504MM. The total minimum for FSU to leave after the 2023-2024 school year would be $630MM. This is the low end of the estimate. The exit fee is the cost for any school to leave prior to the completion of the contract period, which runs until 2036. The rights buy back is the cost for FSU to control their own rights, no conference will accept FSU while the ACC and ESPN hold the rights.

The calculations are not in line with the costs to OU and UT (2.1X the annual TV deal), thus, it is likely the cost to leave is much higher. At the factor of 2.1 (from OU/UT), the rights buy back value is $1.058BB, with a total cost to leave of $1.184BB. Just a reminder that FSU's endowment is less than $1BB, of which most or all of it CANNOT be used for the AD.

When one considers the low side argument, FSU is not close to losing $30MM, it is in the $18MM/year range at best. If the high side is used, FSU loses money, as much as $24MM annually, to leave early, this is certainly part of their consideration. Further, the $300MM floated balloon is nothing to be considered by the ACC.

Anyway, FSU can believe what they want but they have a lot of hurdles to cross before their fantasy comes true. The numbers show that FSU is more likely blustering for attention and squeezing other schools knowing they cannot sustain a legal challenge, which can be dragged out as long as the GOR, or close enough to permanently harm FSU. They must also show a good faith offer to support their claim that they can make that much money, without a B1G or SEC offer in hand, they have no claim to take the ACC and ESPN into court. Then FSU would have a chance to make their arguments to the court which have never worked. See all entertainment attempts to break a rights ownership deal.
I don't think FSU has anywhere to go. ESPN is not going to allow the SEC to plunder and destroy the ACC because both conferences are "owned" currently by ESPN. It's not in ESPN's interest to destroy the ACC who they have to pay on a very favorable deal until 2036. The B1G (owned by Fox/CBS) has no interest in FSU. They would covet UNC/UVA much more. That leaves only the Big 12, maybe, and that increment can't be worth the cost of a hostile exit.
 

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