ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Chip]

 

[oldpinepoint]

Don’t have Twitter or X, anything of note?

 

[MSOrange]

 

[MSOrange]

 

[Chip]

Don’t have Twitter or X, anything of note?

Shouldn’t have to in order to read the link. But just bashing the NCAA over their lack of oversight for what this means for college kids traveling this much, while they worry about minor violations.

He probably could have spoken up earlier but wouldn’t have mattered much.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[CuseLegacy]

If it is Delaware then the whole NC discussion is a moot point. I know DE is the hub of LLC organization so it may very well be DE.

However, their tax documents list state of legal domicile as NC. So I assume that’s where they are organized.

Atlantic Coast Conference - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.

projects.propublica.org

I've searched through the NC Secretary of State website and haven't been able to find a listing for the conference. All businesses have to register with the Secretary of State and file an annual report. There are listings for companies with the name Atlantic Coast Conference in their name but not the correct one.

 

[texascpa]

Can someone post what he wrote?

 

[kcsu]

You are correct - if you wish to be technical about it - thanks! I didn’t at all suggest the contract wouldn’t be upheld. By “broken” as you’ll note in my post - I inferred there would be a big fee to escape the agreement. Which of course may and likely will happen - if enough $$ is thrown at it.

I completely understand and appreciate your post especially your take on this one. As an FYI I heard Dodd i believe the CBS guy today speak about the entire situation with the Pac the 12 the Big SEC and the ACC. He doesn't believe that FSU has any options. Doesn't believe that they will be able to get out of the GOR without paying full boat. He spoke about the 1918 Supreme court decision that is the foundation of the GOR as well as the fact that it addresses and covers any State such as Florida or NC trying to muscle one of their state institutions out of the GOR. He goes on to say that he has spoken to all of his sources in the Big and the SEC and that none of his sources show even a small interest in Florida State. His take is that the ACC is good for a minimum of 5 or more years and that given the decline in media values the League isn't in a bad position. His take really made sense and his bottom line is and he said this that FSU is basically blowing off steam and for the most part is doing so to appease the big boosters and some of their BOT.

 

[HtownOrange]

I can't speak for the internetizens in general. I can only assume that the attorney's involved have a legal strategy to try to exit the GOR and must believe they can win. Personally, I believe Syracuse ends up in the B1G, so I'm hoping FSU succeeds, Worst case Syracuse ends up in the Big 12.

The lawyers who will handle the matter are outside FSU, they will win whether FSU wins or not, so, yes, the lawyers believe they will win, (get paid). The lawyers don't believe FSU will win, they know it is a longshot at best. If it was easy to break the GOR, it would have been done.

To negotiate a quick out will be very costly. To litigate the breaking of he GOR can take years, probably enough years (with appeals) to make the exit fee and buy back of the GOR TV rights tolerably affordable. Regardless, FSU cannot force the issue to leave next summer as one official indicated.

 

[kcsu]

I've searched through the NC Secretary of State website and haven't been able to find a listing for the conference. All businesses have to register with the Secretary of State and file an annual report. There are listings for companies with the name Atlantic Coast Conference in their name but not the correct one.

I believe it is governed by Delaware law.

 

[kcsu]

I completely understand and appreciate your post especially your take on this one. As an FYI I heard Dodd i believe the CBS guy today speak about the entire situation with the Pac the 12 the Big SEC and the ACC. He doesn't believe that FSU has any options. Doesn't believe that they will be able to get out of the GOR without paying full boat. He spoke about the 1918 Supreme court decision that is the foundation of the GOR as well as the fact that it addresses and covers any State such as Florida or NC trying to muscle one of their state institutions out of the GOR. He goes on to say that he has spoken to all of his sources in the Big and the SEC and that none of his sources show even a small interest in Florida State. His take is that the ACC is good for a minimum of 5 or more years and that given the decline in media values the League isn't in a bad position. His take really made sense and his bottom line is and he said this that FSU is basically blowing off steam and for the most part is doing so to appease the big boosters and some of their BOT.

Follow up. He also doesn't think the JP Morgan situation make sense. FSU would have to borrow in excess of 350 to 500 million to buy their way IF there wasn't a protracted lawsuit which he was told would take between 4 and 7 years without a settlement. (Please comment on the length this could drag out)
Anyway, try and find Dodds take and let me know what you think.

 

[MSOrange]

Can someone post what he wrote?

So I've been holding my tongue for a couple days on the conference realignment, Round 2023. But now its nap time on the shores of beautiful Lake Walloon in Northern Michigan so here goes...

Lets get the good stuff and the disclaimers out of the way: I have a tremendous respect for
@SantaJOno and Warde Manuel when it comes to protecting the interests of the University of Michigan. Full stop. They are my guys, and I'm proud of the work they do.

I also want to welcome @uoregon and @UW to the Big Ten Conference. They are tremendous institutions with fantastic fan bases, and I know they'll love coming to places like Ann Arbor, Madison, and Iowa City.

But lets face some facts here: this expansion, like the several before it, has zero to do with the caliber of the school, the impact it would have on student athletes, tradition or rivalry. It has everything to do with TV dollars. But everyone knows that.

It's utterly indefensible on any other grounds. FACT: It will take less time for our student athletes in non-chartered travel to go from Ann Arbor to London than it will to Eugene. Should we consider adding University College London to add another TV window? (Dont give any ideas)

This is where I find the @NCAA and its behavior so wildly offensive. If this alleged oversight body, which claims it is high and mighty every time it runs to Congress demanding action, really cared about student athletes, they'd get this nonsense under control.

Instead, they run around finding minor violations while ignoring the VERY real impact that a weeknight competition in Seattle would have on student athletes with classes in College Park.

They're mall cops that are way in over their heads. The TV execs do their jobs, the Presidents protect their institutions. If the @NCAA were a real oversight body, it would be the grown up in the room.

Instead, it sits around policing minor violations while 115 year old conferences are simply blown up.

Now, lets get to the heart of it: these college leaders, from the Big Ten, to the SEC, to the ACC and beyond, again talking about how the biggest threats to college sports are the transfer portal and NIL, and then go transfer portal a conference in a week in August.

If the Arguments for Congressional action had no merit before, now they look positively silly. In what world should student athletes be given a bigger grind (with almost no say into this massive change) with ZERO of the TV dollars going in their pockets?

Instead, the concern was that every school would continue to get what they had. The students, who are not allowed to be employees or collect revenue sharing, while the schools are hyper focused on their own percentages. In what world does that make sense?

It's not the lack of caring about regionalism and rivalry that get me (as a fan, of course they do). It's the enormous hypocrisy of claiming the NCAA or its member institutions remotely care about student athlete welfare when they're in front of congress..

While showing just absolute utter disregard for it when it comes to conference expansion. Congress should judge these leaders by their actions, and not by the words: It acts like a business, and should be treated like a business on all aspects, including compensation.

The entire empire has no clothes. If the NCAA and its member institutions were actually even somewhat concerned about fairness, today would be a good day to start moving toward a revenue share. The second best day would be tomorrow.

 

[HtownOrange]

so they'll be sending them to Morgantown instead, have a nice trip!

SHHHHHHHHHHH! Nobody explained to the AZ schools that they will fly into Pittsburg and take a 90 minute bus ride to WVU in lieu of stopping at Pittsburg, another 20 minutes to Syracuse or 30 minutes to Boston. Obviously, math is not their "thing".

 

[Orangezoo]

SHHHHHHHHHHH! Nobody explained to the AZ schools that they will fly into Pittsburg and take a 90 minute bus ride to WVU in lieu of stopping at Pittsburg, another 20 minutes to Syracuse or 30 minutes to Boston. Obviously, math is not their "thing".

Bus ride? I've flown into Morgantown municipal before figured that's what these guys would do as well?

 

[Cusefan69]

Unfortunately the Big 12 grabbed our most likely backfill candidates. (WVU, Cincy, UCF)
All that is left is Yukon and USF

One hope is TV money is so tight in 2029 that the ACC contract looks pretty good to Big12 teams and we can get a few back tired of 3-4 hour flights .

Yeah I agree and people should chillax with the whole B12 is in position. They are split owned by ESPN and Fox and guess which two networks will be thinking about their primary asset renewals near the B12s? ESPN and Fox and the SEC will want more and the Big10 will want more. ESPN and Fox can find more in their B12 budgets. So the B12 may not be in as great shape as some are thinking.

 

[syracuse95]

So I've been holding my tongue for a couple days on the conference realignment, Round 2023. But now its nap time on the shores of beautiful Lake Walloon in Northern Michigan so here goes...

Lets get the good stuff and the disclaimers out of the way: I have a tremendous respect for
@SantaJOno and Warde Manuel when it comes to protecting the interests of the University of Michigan. Full stop. They are my guys, and I'm proud of the work they do.

I also want to welcome @uoregon and @UW to the Big Ten Conference. They are tremendous institutions with fantastic fan bases, and I know they'll love coming to places like Ann Arbor, Madison, and Iowa City.

But lets face some facts here: this expansion, like the several before it, has zero to do with the caliber of the school, the impact it would have on student athletes, tradition or rivalry. It has everything to do with TV dollars. But everyone knows that.

It's utterly indefensible on any other grounds. FACT: It will take less time for our student athletes in non-chartered travel to go from Ann Arbor to London than it will to Eugene. Should we consider adding University College London to add another TV window? (Dont give any ideas)

This is where I find the @NCAA and its behavior so wildly offensive. If this alleged oversight body, which claims it is high and mighty every time it runs to Congress demanding action, really cared about student athletes, they'd get this nonsense under control.

Instead, they run around finding minor violations while ignoring the VERY real impact that a weeknight competition in Seattle would have on student athletes with classes in College Park.

They're mall cops that are way in over their heads. The TV execs do their jobs, the Presidents protect their institutions. If the @NCAA were a real oversight body, it would be the grown up in the room.

Instead, it sits around policing minor violations while 115 year old conferences are simply blown up.

Now, lets get to the heart of it: these college leaders, from the Big Ten, to the SEC, to the ACC and beyond, again talking about how the biggest threats to college sports are the transfer portal and NIL, and then go transfer portal a conference in a week in August.

If the Arguments for Congressional action had no merit before, now they look positively silly. In what world should student athletes be given a bigger grind (with almost no say into this massive change) with ZERO of the TV dollars going in their pockets?

Instead, the concern was that every school would continue to get what they had. The students, who are not allowed to be employees or collect revenue sharing, while the schools are hyper focused on their own percentages. In what world does that make sense?

It's not the lack of caring about regionalism and rivalry that get me (as a fan, of course they do). It's the enormous hypocrisy of claiming the NCAA or its member institutions remotely care about student athlete welfare when they're in front of congress..

While showing just absolute utter disregard for it when it comes to conference expansion. Congress should judge these leaders by their actions, and not by the words: It acts like a business, and should be treated like a business on all aspects, including compensation.

The entire empire has no clothes. If the NCAA and its member institutions were actually even somewhat concerned about fairness, today would be a good day to start moving toward a revenue share. The second best day would be tomorrow.

I guess I don’t understand what he’d have the NCAA do? Once the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 1984 and handed the media rights to the schools, how would the NCAA be able to prevent maximizing TV revenue by switching conferences? I would think any attempt to do so would run afoul of antitrust laws again.

I’m not arguing FOR what’s going on. I think it sucks. But I don’t think the NCAA could stop it. It’s own member institutions have seen to that in the courts.

 

[Willy75]

I believe it is governed by Delaware law.

How so? It's not in the constitution or by laws. Now I could believe the ESPN agreement has DE law and venue but nobody seems to have a copy.
At this point I'm not sure what the ACC's legal status is for purposes of dissolution. There may be nothing to dissolve as it's nothing more than its members.

 

[HtownOrange]

You are correct - if you wish to be technical about it - thanks! I didn’t at all suggest the contract wouldn’t be upheld. By “broken” as you’ll note in my post - I inferred there would be a big fee to escape the agreement. Which of course may and likely will happen - if enough $$ is thrown at it.

FSU is in a weak financial position, which is why they are not likely to be able to buy out the TV rights and exit fee. The $300MM figure they floated was an attempt to gage ACC interest and possibly attract a few other teams to their "side", this is my guess. The attempt flopped because the exit fee is established and the GOR if far more beneficial long term to the remaining schools than some quick cash. Besides, FSU ignored ESPN in all of their discussions, which suggests that they are attempting to sway the ACC to force ESPN to agree knowing that ESPN has no such obligation to agree to let FSU go early.

 

[ECE '76]

Show strong TV viewership. Attend non-conference away games (Purdue this year/Tenn coming up). And spray paint the S logo all over your town.

Umm, wait... shouldn't that say:

And spray paint the S logo all over the Nittany Lion statue, the Tennesse Vol Torchbearer statue, and fill the gas tank of the Purdue Choo-choo train with orange juice?

 

[HtownOrange]

Bus ride? I've flown into Morgantown municipal before figured that's what these guys would do as well?

Unless Morgantown expanded the runway, a charter jet for the football team must land in Pittsburg and bus in.

 

[Orangezoo]

Unless Morgantown expanded the runway, a charter jet for the football team must land in Pittsburg and bus in.

Interesting. I could swear I saw one last time I flew, albeit to your point it was a chartered plane not a jet that I flew on.

 

[texascpa]

I guess I don’t understand what he’d have the NCAA do? Once the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 1984 and handed the media rights to the schools, how would the NCAA be able to prevent maximizing TV revenue by switching conferences? I would think any attempt to do so would run afoul of antitrust laws again.

I’m not arguing FOR what’s going on. I think it sucks. But I don’t think the NCAA could stop it. It’s own member institutions have seen to that in the courts.

Out one side of his mouth he attacks the member institutions for not having the best interest of the student-athlete in mind, out the other side he proclaims that those running his member institution are his guys and proud of the work they do. Hey trustee, your guys just voted for this mess.

 

[Cheriehoop]

SHHHHHHHHHHH! Nobody explained to the AZ schools that they will fly into Pittsburg and take a 90 minute bus ride to WVU in lieu of stopping at Pittsburg, another 20 minutes to Syracuse or 30 minutes to Boston. Obviously, math is not their "thing".

My son who lives in Texas (of all the programs to be complaining ) said the media down there are talking about the absurdity of travel and how Texas should be competing against local Texas teams. They were complaining about the travel playing Alabama next month. Guess they have to use the Birmingham airport and then travel an hour to get to Tuscaloosa. They said it will be a mess for fans, band members, team gear since rental cars, vans etc will be needed to get to the game site. They expect it to affect fan travel and in time, overall interest. My son and I had to laugh how it was interesting and pretty ironic, that they were just figuring that stuff out now after being the main impetus starting all this conference hopping.

 

[qdawgg]

My son who lives in Texas (of all the programs to be complaining ) said the media down there are talking about the absurdity of travel and how Texas should be competing against local Texas teams. They were complaining about the travel playing Alabama next month. Guess they have to use the Birmingham airport and then travel an hour to get to Tuscaloosa. They said it will be a mess for fans, band members, team gear since rental cars, vans etc will be needed to get to the game site. They expect it to affect fan travel and in time, overall interest. My son and I had to laugh how it was interesting and pretty ironic, that they were just figuring that stuff out now after being the main impetus starting all this conference hopping.

Thank god they’re making more $. Lol.

As I’ve said in other threads/posts. I’m curious the long term impact of these moves on fan engagement.