ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Shrmdougluvr]

Over 10 years ago (I'm a genius, just ask me ), I posted that the only schools available and worth adding to the ACC, that could cement the Conference's long term status, were Texas and Notre Dame. The only thing that has changed is that Texas is no longer available (and SMU isnt even close to capable of replicating what Texas could have brought).

This is only about one thing - $$$$$$$$$$. And what goes hand in hand with money is power. All of this is driven by money, and the fear of missing out on that money.

The hand-wringing about the Big 12 and its new member adds is nonsense. As is the "need" to poach their schools or for Syracuse to join them. The stability of the Big 12 is bore out of the SEC and B1G wanting nothing to do with its members. To that end, it is nothing more than the glorified MAC or MWC. None of their schools (except maybe BYU or ASU) add value, even to the ACC, so there is no point to trying to attract one now. They don't stabilize the conference or add revenue - in fact they would dilute revenue. In the end, they may go on, but they will be nothing more than a distant third in what I suppose will then be a three horse race. I am confident that Syracuse can either eventually join them or join a conference of similar strength (i.e., revenue distribution).

When you have a partnership, and the revenue is split amongst partners, there are really only two reasons to ever add new equity partners - they increase the revenue "pie"; they stabilize the existing revenue source without detracting too much value from the existing partners (the stablizing can occur a few ways).

To that end, I am in the camp that feels Cal and Stanford were worthy adds. Clearly Notre Dame values them (perhaps for superficial reasons). At this point, the ACC is grasping and since bringing Notre Dame on as full partner is possibly the only thing that will save the Conference. If it increases Notre Dame's chance of joining even a little, it's worth it.

In the end though, I am pretty confident that Notre Dame will not join, and that UVA, UNC, FSU, and Clemson will all bolt as soon as the "penalty" is offset by the potential gain. Their vote against adding Stanford and Cal is a clear indicator of their intention to leave. I believe NC State, Va Tech, Miami, and Ga Tech, all offer enough value to be poached by one of the SEC or B1G as well.

I am not confident that Syracuse is attractive enough to be worth the SEC or B1G's expansion. I think the brand is decent though so I am not foreclosed of all hope.

Candidly, I think the best thing Syracuse can do, absent an opportunity to also bolt to the SEC or the B1G (which it should take at first chance) is to ride this out, obstruct the ACC's dissolution for as long as possible, extort as much as it can from the other members for exit fees and future rights to media revenue, and then spend that money as judiciously as possible.

Edit: To anybody that read all of this drivel, you're a trooper.

 

[Stern]

To me, if I'm running the ACC I'm not looking at Stanford, Cal, or SMU.

I am on the phone with Notre Dame and asking one question. "WHAT WILL IT TAKE?"

Tell ND to give me your dream scenario for joining. Tell me in a perfect world what you want. It will be a totally lopsided deal; we (The ACC) knows that going in. Maybe you let ND double dip where they have their own NBC deal, and they get a cut of the ACC TV money as well. They get control over their football scheduling inside the ACC. They get to play less conference games to ensure they can keep Navy and USC on the schedule as well as a cupcake or two? ACC Conference Championship game is played in South Bend every year. Legit, tell me what it will take to get you to join.

If part of them joining is, Stanford and Cal can come too, fine, great they come too.

There has to be a pie-in-the-sky scenario where they join. A deal they can't say no to. What is the deal they can't walk away from? It's not the ACC presenting it to them, it's THEM presenting it to the ACC.

 

[Cusefan69]

I would think that there would be conversations happening back door with UVA and UNC about the adds. I would bet this is not final yet. If it was, Stanford and Cal would already be announcing their MWC jump with the last two PAC. I bet this ultimately gets done, the question is what are the concessions for the final couple of yes votes needed.

 

[baggerbob]

FSU acts like a kid throwing a fit at ToysRUs, will they ever be happy? It seems they will be complaining no matter what, even if ND joins. What the ACC has to worry about is when other schools start to bend their way because they too think they should have more.

If FSU is worried about the $ in the ACC, help find a way to fix it instead they are acting just like children, they need an adult to be in charge not one that acts like this.

If FSU and Miami were continually finishing in the top 6 like they used to, we wouldn't have this problem.
Actually for supposedly being the premiere schools in the conference, and
Being bad for almost 10 years, they should be getting less, not more.

 

[AngryOtto]

Ready for the season to start so all the realignment talk quite down.
FSt, Clemson and probably NC are voting no because they want to leverage for money from other acc schools. I do not believe it will happen.
No one is breaking the GOR anytime soon unless they want to be financially ruined. If FSt wants to give away 500 million to the other acc schools great.
Season starts in 3 weeks. Have at least 5 to 6 more seasons before need to worry.
By then I personally do not think the tv money is going to be there and some of these conferences will start to scramble and the realignment will be getting rid of teams instead of adding.

 

[Sbucketball]

With all of these changes to college sports, many of which are perceived as negative by fans, and the push away from cable and to streaming, it seems like there's a very really chance the bubble bursts in the next decade.

And, by the way, that might actually help Syracuse. Fair weather fans will stop watching and only the most loyal fans will pay for streaming platforms and continue to care/spend money. I believe Cuse has one of the more loyal fanbases, relatively speaking. Super inflated numbers for top football programs would fall because a lot of those numbers are people just tuning in for a big, well-advertised or prime time game. Just a thought -- honestly not sure if I'm correct or not.

 

[shandeezy7]

Over 10 years ago (I'm a genius, just ask me ), I posted that the only schools available and worth adding to the ACC, that could cement the Conference's long term status, were Texas and Notre Dame. The only thing that has changed is that Texas is no longer available (and SMU isnt even close to capable of replicating what Texas could have brought).

This is only about one thing - $$$$$$$$$$. And what goes hand in hand with money is power. All of this is driven by money, and the fear of missing out on that money.

The hand-wringing about the Big 12 and its new member adds is nonsense. As is the "need" to poach their schools or for Syracuse to join them. The stability of the Big 12 is bore out of the SEC and B1G wanting nothing to do with its members. To that end, it is nothing more than the glorified MAC or MWC. None of their schools (except maybe BYU or ASU) add value, even to the ACC, so there is no point to trying to attract one now. They don't stabilize the conference or add revenue - in fact they would dilute revenue. In the end, they may go on, but they will be nothing more than a distant third in what I suppose will then be a three horse race. I am confident that Syracuse can either eventually join them or join a conference of similar strength (i.e., revenue distribution).

When you have a partnership, and the revenue is split amongst partners, there are really only two reasons to ever add new equity partners - they increase the revenue "pie"; they stabilize the existing revenue source without detracting too much value from the existing partners (the stablizing can occur a few ways).

To that end, I am in the camp that feels Cal and Stanford were worthy adds. Clearly Notre Dame values them (perhaps for superficial reasons). At this point, the ACC is grasping and since bringing Notre Dame on as full partner is possibly the only thing that will save the Conference. If it increases Notre Dame's chance of joining even a little, it's worth it.

In the end though, I am pretty confident that Notre Dame will not join, and that UVA, UNC, FSU, and Clemson will all bolt as soon as the "penalty" is offset by the potential gain. There vote against adding Stanford and Cal is a clear indicator of their intention to leave. I believe NC State, Va Tech, Miami, and Ga Tech, all offer enough value to be poached by one of the SEC or B1G as well.

I am not confident that Syracuse is attractive enough to be worth the SEC or B1G's expansion. I think the brand is decent though so I am not foreclosed of all hope.

Candidly, I think the best thing Syracuse can do, absent an opportunity to also bolt to the SEC or the B1G (which it should take at first chance) is to ride this out, obstruct the ACC's dissolution for as long as possible, extort as much as it can from the other members for exit fees and future rights to media revenue, and then spend that money as judiciously as possible.

Edit: To anybody that read all of this drivel, you're a trooper.

I said the same thing last night: adding ND as a full member is the only thing that could potentially truly save the ACC. Everything else is just slapping chewing gum on holes in a sinking boat. Might work for a little bit, but in the long run it’s going to fail and the ship is going to sink.

 

[CousCuse]

Over 10 years ago (I'm a genius, just ask me ), I posted that the only schools available and worth adding to the ACC, that could cement the Conference's long term status, were Texas and Notre Dame. The only thing that has changed is that Texas is no longer available (and SMU isnt even close to capable of replicating what Texas could have brought).

This is only about one thing - $$$$$$$$$$. And what goes hand in hand with money is power. All of this is driven by money, and the fear of missing out on that money.

The hand-wringing about the Big 12 and its new member adds is nonsense. As is the "need" to poach their schools or for Syracuse to join them. The stability of the Big 12 is bore out of the SEC and B1G wanting nothing to do with its members. To that end, it is nothing more than the glorified MAC or MWC. None of their schools (except maybe BYU or ASU) add value, even to the ACC, so there is no point to trying to attract one now. They don't stabilize the conference or add revenue - in fact they would dilute revenue. In the end, they may go on, but they will be nothing more than a distant third in what I suppose will then be a three horse race. I am confident that Syracuse can either eventually join them or join a conference of similar strength (i.e., revenue distribution).

When you have a partnership, and the revenue is split amongst partners, there are really only two reasons to ever add new equity partners - they increase the revenue "pie"; they stabilize the existing revenue source without detracting too much value from the existing partners (the stablizing can occur a few ways).

To that end, I am in the camp that feels Cal and Stanford were worthy adds. Clearly Notre Dame values them (perhaps for superficial reasons). At this point, the ACC is grasping and since bringing Notre Dame on as full partner is possibly the only thing that will save the Conference. If it increases Notre Dame's chance of joining even a little, it's worth it.

In the end though, I am pretty confident that Notre Dame will not join, and that UVA, UNC, FSU, and Clemson will all bolt as soon as the "penalty" is offset by the potential gain. There vote against adding Stanford and Cal is a clear indicator of their intention to leave. I believe NC State, Va Tech, Miami, and Ga Tech, all offer enough value to be poached by one of the SEC or B1G as well.

I am not confident that Syracuse is attractive enough to be worth the SEC or B1G's expansion. I think the brand is decent though so I am not foreclosed of all hope.

Candidly, I think the best thing Syracuse can do, absent an opportunity to also bolt to the SEC or the B1G (which it should take at first chance) is to ride this out, obstruct the ACC's dissolution for as long as possible, extort as much as it can from the other members for exit fees and future rights to media revenue, and then spend that money as judiciously as possible.

Edit: To anybody that read all of this drivel, you're a trooper.

That's whit's in the best interest of Syracuse and the ACC to those teams exit now upon paying a sizable exit fee. Then add 6 teams which will be the future. Stanford, Cal. Tulane, USF and UConn. That gets you into to some great markets: Bay area, DFW, Norleans, TSP and adds in one of the best college basketball brands.

 

[shandeezy7]

Apologies if shared already. B1G.

 

[Acesn8s]

I just have a feeling the ACC is going to stay where it’s at until the schools who are unhappy try and make a move and get smacked down in court, somebody is going to try and fight the GOR hopefully they fail miserably!

 

[DocFlanders]

Over 10 years ago (I'm a genius, just ask me ), I posted that the only schools available and worth adding to the ACC, that could cement the Conference's long term status, were Texas and Notre Dame. The only thing that has changed is that Texas is no longer available (and SMU isnt even close to capable of replicating what Texas could have brought).

This is only about one thing - $$$$$$$$$$. And what goes hand in hand with money is power. All of this is driven by money, and the fear of missing out on that money.

The hand-wringing about the Big 12 and its new member adds is nonsense. As is the "need" to poach their schools or for Syracuse to join them. The stability of the Big 12 is bore out of the SEC and B1G wanting nothing to do with its members. To that end, it is nothing more than the glorified MAC or MWC. None of their schools (except maybe BYU or ASU) add value, even to the ACC, so there is no point to trying to attract one now. They don't stabilize the conference or add revenue - in fact they would dilute revenue. In the end, they may go on, but they will be nothing more than a distant third in what I suppose will then be a three horse race. I am confident that Syracuse can either eventually join them or join a conference of similar strength (i.e., revenue distribution).

When you have a partnership, and the revenue is split amongst partners, there are really only two reasons to ever add new equity partners - they increase the revenue "pie"; they stabilize the existing revenue source without detracting too much value from the existing partners (the stablizing can occur a few ways).

To that end, I am in the camp that feels Cal and Stanford were worthy adds. Clearly Notre Dame values them (perhaps for superficial reasons). At this point, the ACC is grasping and since bringing Notre Dame on as full partner is possibly the only thing that will save the Conference. If it increases Notre Dame's chance of joining even a little, it's worth it.

In the end though, I am pretty confident that Notre Dame will not join, and that UVA, UNC, FSU, and Clemson will all bolt as soon as the "penalty" is offset by the potential gain. There vote against adding Stanford and Cal is a clear indicator of their intention to leave. I believe NC State, Va Tech, Miami, and Ga Tech, all offer enough value to be poached by one of the SEC or B1G as well.

I am not confident that Syracuse is attractive enough to be worth the SEC or B1G's expansion. I think the brand is decent though so I am not foreclosed of all hope.

Candidly, I think the best thing Syracuse can do, absent an opportunity to also bolt to the SEC or the B1G (which it should take at first chance) is to ride this out, obstruct the ACC's dissolution for as long as possible, extort as much as it can from the other members for exit fees and future rights to media revenue, and then spend that money as judiciously as possible.

Edit: To anybody that read all of this drivel, you're a trooper.

Agree with all that, and I've said our long term future is bleak but everyone keeps saying I'm undervaluing how attractive Cuse is. I just think there's too many teams in front of us for SEC/Big 10 to to relieve my anxiety here

 

[Gandalf]

Why would they want to leave ?

Travel expenses and maybe at that time the ACC contract is more lucrative.

 

[Gandalf]

This is actually not an insane post. Mora has been a miracle worker.

Transfer portal has helped

 

[RF2044]

I just have a feeling the ACC is going to stay where it’s at until the schools who are unhappy try and make a move and get smacked down in court, somebody is going to try and fight the GOR hopefully they fail miserably!

That's kind of what I expect, too.

Then, if / when that occurs - and teams inevitably leave the ACC - I think the conference will rebound by ransacking the Big12.

 

[dasher]

To me, if I'm running the ACC I'm not looking at Stanford, Cal, or SMU.

I am on the phone with Notre Dame and asking one question. "WHAT WILL IT TAKE?"

Tell ND to give me your dream scenario for joining. Tell me in a perfect world what you want. It will be a totally lopsided deal; we (The ACC) knows that going in. Maybe you let ND double dip where they have their own NBC deal, and they get a cut of the ACC TV money as well. They get control over their football scheduling inside the ACC. They get to play less conference games to ensure they can keep Navy and USC on the schedule as well as a cupcake or two? ACC Conference Championship game is played in South Bend every year. Legit, tell me what it will take to get you to join.

If part of them joining is, Stanford and Cal can come too, fine, great they come too.

There has to be a pie-in-the-sky scenario where they join. A deal they can't say no to. What is the deal they can't walk away from? It's not the ACC presenting it to them, it's THEM presenting it to the ACC.

Try that with Kate Beckinsale for a date and see what answer you get? It will be the same answer that ND gives the ACC.

 

[CousCuse]

Try that with Kate Beckinsale for a date and see what answer you get? It will be the same answer that ND gives the ACC.

If you beg a killer, it makes them want to kill you all the more

 

[Cusefan0307]

That's whit's in the best interest of Syracuse and the ACC to those teams exit now upon paying a sizable exit fee. Then add 6 teams which will be the future. Stanford, Cal. Tulane, USF and UConn. That gets you into to some great markets: Bay area, DFW, Norleans, TSP and adds in one of the best college basketball brands.

I think you’re lost. This appears to be the site you are looking for.

UConn Men's Basketball Forum

Use this forum to discuss UConn men's basketball recruiting; UConn's five SIX national championships; Coach Dan Hurley; beer; pizza; dead animals in a wall, and Fifty Shade of Blue Blood...

the-boneyard.com

 

[Gandalf]

You just answered why the ACC will not add UConn in your own post.
"Adding mediocre football teams are not going to move the needle."

The point is don’t add another mediocre team over UConn. The ACC football elite and some of the Traditional ACC teams regret inviting us and BC to the conference. They regret the Pitt invite as well but can’t say anything now because of 2021. We need yankee school allies which would be Cinci and UConn

 

[AZOrange]

To me, if I'm running the ACC I'm not looking at Stanford, Cal, or SMU.

I am on the phone with Notre Dame and asking one question. "WHAT WILL IT TAKE?"

Tell ND to give me your dream scenario for joining. Tell me in a perfect world what you want. It will be a totally lopsided deal; we (The ACC) knows that going in. Maybe you let ND double dip where they have their own NBC deal, and they get a cut of the ACC TV money as well. They get control over their football scheduling inside the ACC. They get to play less conference games to ensure they can keep Navy and USC on the schedule as well as a cupcake or two? ACC Conference Championship game is played in South Bend every year. Legit, tell me what it will take to get you to join.

If part of them joining is, Stanford and Cal can come too, fine, great they come too.

There has to be a pie-in-the-sky scenario where they join. A deal they can't say no to. What is the deal they can't walk away from? It's not the ACC presenting it to them, it's THEM presenting it to the ACC.

It is far more likely that the biggest brands disassociate themselves from football conferences and privately brand themselves and play independently than there is that ND joins a conference. Be prepared for the Texas Longhorns by chevron. It’s coming. Chip Kelly is dead on

 

[CousCuse]

I think you’re lost. This appears to be the site you are looking for.

UConn Men's Basketball Forum

Use this forum to discuss UConn men's basketball recruiting; UConn's five SIX national championships; Coach Dan Hurley; beer; pizza; dead animals in a wall, and Fifty Shade of Blue Blood...

the-boneyard.com

What the hell am I supposed to say, they suck? IF UNC were to leave the ACC would desperately need another brand to keep the basketball at a high level. It would also knock the Big East back down.

 

[RF2044]

It is far more likely that the biggest brands disassociate themselves from football conferences and privately brand themselves and play independently than there is that ND joins a conference. Be prepared for the Texas Longhorns by chevron. It’s coming. Chip Kelly is dead on

Agree with that take -- and your final sentence. The more I think about it, the more what Kelly suggests seems inevitable.

 

[Gandalf]

The point is don’t add another mediocre team over UConn. The ACC football elite and some of the Traditional ACC teams regret inviting us and BC to the conference. They regret the Pitt invite as well but can’t say anything now because of 2021. We need yankee school allies which would be Cinci and UConn

I do think SMU is a sleeping giant and would add them before UConn. Get access to the Texas market.

 

[Hoo's That]

Over 10 years ago (I'm a genius, just ask me ), I posted that the only schools available and worth adding to the ACC, that could cement the Conference's long term status, were Texas and Notre Dame. The only thing that has changed is that Texas is no longer available (and SMU isnt even close to capable of replicating what Texas could have brought).

This is only about one thing - $$$$$$$$$$. And what goes hand in hand with money is power. All of this is driven by money, and the fear of missing out on that money.

The hand-wringing about the Big 12 and its new member adds is nonsense. As is the "need" to poach their schools or for Syracuse to join them. The stability of the Big 12 is bore out of the SEC and B1G wanting nothing to do with its members. To that end, it is nothing more than the glorified MAC or MWC. None of their schools (except maybe BYU or ASU) add value, even to the ACC, so there is no point to trying to attract one now. They don't stabilize the conference or add revenue - in fact they would dilute revenue. In the end, they may go on, but they will be nothing more than a distant third in what I suppose will then be a three horse race. I am confident that Syracuse can either eventually join them or join a conference of similar strength (i.e., revenue distribution).

When you have a partnership, and the revenue is split amongst partners, there are really only two reasons to ever add new equity partners - they increase the revenue "pie"; they stabilize the existing revenue source without detracting too much value from the existing partners (the stablizing can occur a few ways).

To that end, I am in the camp that feels Cal and Stanford were worthy adds. Clearly Notre Dame values them (perhaps for superficial reasons). At this point, the ACC is grasping and since bringing Notre Dame on as full partner is possibly the only thing that will save the Conference. If it increases Notre Dame's chance of joining even a little, it's worth it.

In the end though, I am pretty confident that Notre Dame will not join, and that UVA, UNC, FSU, and Clemson will all bolt as soon as the "penalty" is offset by the potential gain. Their vote against adding Stanford and Cal is a clear indicator of their intention to leave. I believe NC State, Va Tech, Miami, and Ga Tech, all offer enough value to be poached by one of the SEC or B1G as well.

I am not confident that Syracuse is attractive enough to be worth the SEC or B1G's expansion. I think the brand is decent though so I am not foreclosed of all hope.

Candidly, I think the best thing Syracuse can do, absent an opportunity to also bolt to the SEC or the B1G (which it should take at first chance) is to ride this out, obstruct the ACC's dissolution for as long as possible, extort as much as it can from the other members for exit fees and future rights to media revenue, and then spend that money as judiciously as possible.

Edit: To anybody that read all of this drivel, you're a trooper.

One of our board gurus from Texas (who may have passed on) said on many occasions that the ACC offered Texas the deal that ND got before it was offered to ND.

 

[DocFlanders]

I do think SMU is a sleeping giant and would add them before UConn. Get access to the Texas market.

Don't know if that's good move now or not, but what what I do know is that those 4 ACC schools are hellbent on letting everything wither on the vine as is until they can get out, regardless of what's best for the conference now and into the future

 

[007]

I am on the phone with Notre Dame and asking one question. "WHAT WILL IT TAKE?"

Tell ND to give me your dream scenario for joining. Tell me in a perfect world what you want.

There has to be a pie-in-the-sky scenario where they join. A deal they can't say no to. What is the deal they can't walk away from?

That's been attempted several times. ND's "pie in the sky scenario" is exactly what they have now. That's what the ACC gave them.

Jim Phillips said at the ACC Media Days less than a month ago: "We've had a lot of conversations, let me put it bluntly, with Notre Dame, and they've been very clear," Phillips said. “They value their independence, and I think they feel strongly that that will continue well into the future."

John Swofford said the exact same thing.

What you are suggesting has been attempted multiple times. ND will give up their independence only when they are FORCED to. The only thing that will force them to join for football will be if their access to the CFP is blocked. That has long been the end game of the B1G.