ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Chip]

I agree. But I think those are the wrong schools to add. I still believe they should add 4 schools. Kansas, Oklahoma St, BYU, Houston.

Pod 1- Oregon, Oregon st, Washington, Washington st

Pod 2- Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona state

Pod 3- Utah, Colorado, Byu, Kansas

Pod 4- Oklahoma st, Houston, Louisville, Pitt?

Pod 5-ACC

Pod 6-ACC

Pod 7-ACC

That would make 7 pods of 4. You play your pod (3) teams. And rotate two other pods a year. That gives you 11 games of inventory. You get threw the entire conference in 3 years. You then schedule 1 out of conference game a year, a layup. Stop scheduling the SEC and Big 10. But you don’t have these cupcake games and every game brings ratings.

Imagine being Pitt in this scenario.

"Well, Pitt, I've got good news and bad news. Wait, just bad news. Yeah, it's all bad."

 

[elimunelson]

I don’t think localized TV will exist outside of major markets very soon

may be the wrong analogy but why would Ohio St or Georgia agree to equal payments as say Rutgers or Vanderbilt. The same argument will melt up too IMO. These conferences were established to put everyone on equal footing. I think these schools are beginning to say no to that relationship.

 

[TexanMark]

I think to make it work you would need a 2nd Texas team. Not enough presence there. So add UTSA and one of UNLV/Boise to that so both sides have 14 teams.

That being said this is a short term bandaid. The money will still be well behind the B1G/SEC. Teams will still look to leave.

Also as with the Mikey T proposed Big East and ACC merger, why take on the entire P12? The ACC said hey we only want the good Big East teams, see ya. So if the P12 schools are willing to merge with the ACC, why wouldn't the ACC just take the Top 4-6 P12 options? Why add all those mouths to feed when they do not pull their own weight?

It'll be behind but it will ensure the APAC would be the third conference.

It offers a ton of content spread over 4 time zones

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

The ACC is done. People here are in denial. We need to schedule the B10 more. And make more Midwest friends.

Its not denial.

I agree that the SEC and Big 10 are well positioned as the 1 & 1A moving forward and the ACC as it currently stands is a distant 3rd or 4th which will fade to irrelevance if it sits and does nothing. But its not denial to say that the conference should take one more stab at becoming the defacto #3 by any means necessary, with my preferred options being a coastal conference with the PAC-12, who is absolutely in the same boat of trying to ensure relevance.

Will this work? I dont know. Maybe not. But i KNOW doing nothing it a losing strategy.

 

[javadoc]

FSU AD: Lagging ACC revenue 'has to change'

FSU athletic director Michael Alford says the $30 million-per-year difference in revenue between schools in the ACC and the SEC/Big Ten "has to change."

www.espn.com

"Something has to change because we cannot compete nationally being $30 million behind every year," Alford said.

Why not? Seriously, why the F do you need $30M on top of what you are spending now to do your job? For amateur athletics?

 

[elimunelson]

"Something has to change because we cannot compete nationally being $30 million behind every year," Alford said.

Why not? Seriously, why the F do you need $30M on top of what you are spending now to do your job? For amateur athletics?

something stinks here. I feel like they are preparing for war with the ACC and communicating to the SEC/BIG we're open for business.

OBVIOUSLY the ACC is going to try and get 100c on the dollar for the GoR and the termination fee but at some point they'll negotiate off that figure. Perhaps FSU sees an opening with ripping the bandaid off now vs waiting 12 more years before they become completely irrelevant competition wise playing in the ACC.

I think the key is the additive these schools bring (or not).

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It'll be behind but it will ensure the APAC would be the third conference.

It offers a ton of content spread over 4 time zones

But you still need quality and viewers. That is the issue with many of the schools outside of the B1G/SEC. Few of the matchups are Tier 1/2 worthy. Pooling ACC/P12 works great for the ACCN but IMO doesn't do much for the overall contract. Especially without many intersectional games.

For example I don't see the point in the P12 adding SMU. SMU has a small fanbase so it will do nothing to drive the P12N nor any subscriptions (ESPN+, Apple, Amazon, etc). For Tier 1/2 TV the SMU game in most cases won't even be chosen locally in Dallas. If SMU is playing an average P12 team like Arizona State, who are the networks going to chose to put on? Texas, Oklahoma, and A&M will have preference. Then I think the Texas B12 schools playing an average B12 team like Kansas State would all get higher ratings/interest in Dallas vs the SMU game. Maybe even Oklahoma State vs Kansas State as well. Casual fans in Dallas have been watching B12 football for roughly 30 years. They aren't going to switch over to watching P12 games just for SMU.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

"Something has to change because we cannot compete nationally being $30 million behind every year," Alford said.

Why not? Seriously, why the F do you need $30M on top of what you are spending now to do your job? For amateur athletics?

FSU will have an easier time making the CFP in the ACC vs the SEC or B1G. The problem is that as time goes on, the $ gap will make it harder and harder for FSU to beat an SEC/B1G team in the CFP. Under the old environment FSU could win a title (see Clemson's run). But with the $ gap FSU will be more like Oklahoma (0-4 with 3 blowouts) in the CFP.

 

[Chip]

FSU will have an easier time making the CFP in the ACC vs the SEC or B1G. The problem is that as time goes on, the $ gap will make it harder and harder for FSU to beat an SEC/B1G team in the CFP. Under the old environment FSU could win a title (see Clemson's run). But with the $ gap FSU will be more like Oklahoma (0-4 with 3 blowouts) in the CFP.

Honestly, I don't even think it's about making the CFP anymore or whether or not they can compete.

They believe they are an elite brand, and so they want the extra $30M per year. It just means everyone makes more money.

Why make so much less than those teams?

 

[javadoc]

FSU will have an easier time making the CFP in the ACC vs the SEC or B1G. The problem is that as time goes on, the $ gap will make it harder and harder for FSU to beat an SEC/B1G team in the CFP. Under the old environment FSU could win a title (see Clemson's run). But with the $ gap FSU will be more like Oklahoma (0-4 with 3 blowouts) in the CFP.

Why? Why does a dollar gap causally relegate a team to Oklahoma status? We're not talking about $100 vs $1M. We're talking about infinity vs infinity+1 as I see it.

 

[CU44SE]

Imagine being Pitt in this scenario.

"Well, Pitt, I've got good news and bad news. Wait, just bad news. Yeah, it's all bad."

Initially I was saying WVU which would be fine with Pitt. But then the more I thought, the less reason there is to bring WVU in. Bigger schools, bigger viewership is key. WVU I don’t believe are any of that. I like the history with them. They just are not as valuable as other schools imo.

But then ya, that leaves a random pod.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Why? Why does a dollar gap causally relegate a team to Oklahoma status? We're not talking about $100 vs $1M. We're talking about infinity vs infinity+1 as I see it.

The money can pay for players (NIL) and pay for facilities. FSU had fallen behind in the facility race.

There is a reason why USC, Texas, Oklahoma left.

 

[Orangefizz]

FSU will have an easier time making the CFP in the ACC vs the SEC or B1G. The problem is that as time goes on, the $ gap will make it harder and harder for FSU to beat an SEC/B1G team in the CFP. Under the old environment FSU could win a title (see Clemson's run). But with the $ gap FSU will be more like Oklahoma (0-4 with 3 blowouts) in the CFP.

Assuming FSU/Clemson bolt to the SEC and Oregon/Washington agree to reduced BIG payments to enter the league, this structure might work to keep us relevant. Each team plays the 5 division teams and a home and away with the other two divisions.

ACC
Tier 1, 1-5 100% SEC
Tier 2, 6-10 80% SEC
Tier 3, 11-15 70% SEC
Tier 4, 16-18 60% SEC

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Louisville
Wake Forest
Miami

Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Duke
NC State
Georgia Tech

Stanford
California
Arizona
Arizona St
Utah
Colorado

 

[javadoc]

The money can pay for players (NIL) and pay for facilities. FSU had fallen behind in the facility race.

There is a reason why USC, Texas, Oklahoma left.

It can't pay for NIL. No money directly from the school for NIL.

 

[All4SU]

The money can pay for players (NIL) and pay for facilities. FSU had fallen behind in the facility race.

There is a reason why USC, Texas, Oklahoma left.

The money cannot go to NIL. Not unless there are no longer any rules.

 

[elimunelson]

Assuming FSU/Clemson bolt to the SEC and Oregon/Washington agree to reduced BIG payments to enter the league, this structure might work to keep us relevant. Each team plays the 5 division teams and a home and away with the other two divisions.

ACC
Tier 1, 1-5 100% SEC
Tier 2, 6-10 80% SEC
Tier 3, 11-15 70% SEC
Tier 4, 16-18 60% SEC

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Louisville
Wake Forest
Miami

Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Duke
NC State
Georgia Tech

Stanford
California
Arizona
Arizona St
Utah
Colorado

I think all these crazy scenarios are just a race to the bottom.

If FSU is able to leave, my guess is UNC bolts as well as UVA (real treasures for the BIG). The entire thing is a house of cards IMO

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It can't pay for NIL. No money directly from the school for NIL.

Not directly but if say Ole Miss doesn't need money from donors to fund their entire AD and facilitates, all that donor money can be sent to NIL funds instead of the AD. This is assuming pay for play doesn't pass.

If a recruit can get paid 2x as much at Ole Miss vs FSU and on top of that play SEC competition, where are they going to go? If a current player has the same choice? If the HC, OC, DC, or position coach can double their salary, where they going Ole Miss or FSU?

 

[Newhouser]

When the ACC implodes when the GOR expires, it’ll be over for SU FB as far ever being relevant nationally again.

This is what I think too - though I would argue we really aren't nationally relevant already.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This is what I think too - though I would argue we really aren't nationally relevant already.

Depends on what one thinks as nationally relevant. The run we had under Coach P where we hit the Top 10 several seasons? That ain't happening. But I do think if the ACC is gone, we could be a Boise State like team in a Northeastern conference.

However if we are in a national conference, we will get lost in the shuffle. If we do get left behind, IMO our best shot at being relevant in FB and getting back to relevance in BBall is a NE conf. I think our BBall wouldn't be able to handle a national conference.

 

[PhatOrange]

FSU will have an easier time making the CFP in the ACC vs the SEC or B1G. The problem is that as time goes on, the $ gap will make it harder and harder for FSU to beat an SEC/B1G team in the CFP. Under the old environment FSU could win a title (see Clemson's run). But with the $ gap FSU will be more like Oklahoma (0-4 with 3 blowouts) in the CFP.

I can't agree with that. FSU is still going to have a roster full of great football players. Money doesn't increase the number of players on a team.

 

[baggerbob]

But you still need quality and viewers. That is the issue with many of the schools outside of the B1G/SEC. Few of the matchups are Tier 1/2 worthy. Pooling ACC/P12 works great for the ACCN but IMO doesn't do much for the overall contract. Especially without many intersectional games.

For example I don't see the point in the P12 adding SMU. SMU has a small fanbase so it will do nothing to drive the P12N nor any subscriptions (ESPN+, Apple, Amazon, etc). For Tier 1/2 TV the SMU game in most cases won't even be chosen locally in Dallas. If SMU is playing an average P12 team like Arizona State, who are the networks going to chose to put on? Texas, Oklahoma, and A&M will have preference. Then I think the Texas B12 schools playing an average B12 team like Kansas State would all get higher ratings/interest in Dallas vs the SMU game. Maybe even Oklahoma State vs Kansas State as well. Casual fans in Dallas have been watching B12 football for roughly 30 years. They aren't going to switch over to watching P12 games just for SMU.

Everyone needs to admit Swofford killed the ACC to benefit his son.
The ACC is dead man walking, and doesn't realize it yet.
ESPN saw a chance to get cheap programming and kill off another conference.

 

[Cuse181]

Everyone needs to admit Swofford killed the ACC to benefit his son.
The ACC is dead man walking, and doesn't realize it yet.
ESPN saw a chance to get cheap programming and kill off another conference.

ESPN is a dying brand anyway. They can’t compete with the streaming companies right now. Amazon, Apple, YouTube (via Google) will destroy ESPN by constantly out bidding them over and over, there’s a reason why the NBA is more than likely going to a streaming service. If Disney was smart, they’d saddle it with a ton of their debt and spin it off similar to ATT and Warner Bros Discovery.

 

[orange79]

Everyone needs to admit Swofford killed the ACC to benefit his son.
The ACC is dead man walking, and doesn't realize it yet.
ESPN saw a chance to get cheap programming and kill off another conference.

Why would ESPN want to kill the ACC?

They own 50% of the ACC network.

 

[TexanMark]

The money can pay for players (NIL) and pay for facilities. FSU had fallen behind in the facility race.

There is a reason why USC, Texas, Oklahoma left.

Edit: Saw post above and my guess below aligns with your view.

Unless there is a rule change...NIL can't come directly from the school.

I think what you mean...capital improvement donations will go down as private donor money is funneled into the NIL. The schools can use the extra TV money to build their much needed lazy rivers and vanity dressing rooms.

 

[TexanMark]

Everyone needs to admit Swofford killed the ACC to benefit his son.
The ACC is dead man walking, and doesn't realize it yet.
ESPN saw a chance to get cheap programming and kill off another conference.

NC based folks have an irrational love affair with Jefferson Pilot and Raycom. It was around 2010 IIRC when Swofford sold-out the ACC. During the aughts the ACC was paid pretty well.

Coincidentally the Big East were horrible negotiating with ESPN too. Wildhack killed Tranghese at the bargain table.