ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[HRE Otto IV]

ASU and Zona are a package deal

It would be prisoner’s dilemma. Are they really going to risk going to the MWC instead of one of them in the B12? They have no leverage.

 

[Hoo's That]

I don't think the SEC will want FSU and Clemson. UNC and VaTech or NC State maybe.

I don't think the current B1G is going to charge into the Carolinas and Florida without really doing some work to understand what that means. A national conference has never been tried. It presents some real challenges. (I'm not sure LA schools + Rutgers/MD is actually doable. I think next steps might be determined based on how well the current thing works)

I think the networks want those things. But they already have them? What we're talking about is a proxy war between Fox and ESPN. I don't see them pushing for geographic areas as much as fanbases (eyeballs) and there's a reason the ACC is the 3rd or 4th best paid conference currently.

The SEC has long wanted to "fill in the top corner". They prefer having the flagships, which would be UNC and UVa, but NC State (+5K) and VPI (+13K) are larger schools and their football- and b-ball-first cultures are a big fit with the SEC. The SEC does not have the breadth of quality men's Olympic sports that UNC and UVa have. One of the reasons VPI athletic administrators really got behind the Commonwealth Clash all-sports competition with UVa was to get their donor base fired up to support their Olympic sports as well as the "show horses". It's been said in many postings and press columns that UNC will insist on taking UVa with them regardless of where they go, if they go anywhere. Neither will make a first move that would lead to the implosion of the ACC (especially on the part of UNC because they worked so hard to establish the ACC in the first place).

 

[orangecuse]

I'm somewhat hesitant to ask due to the potential push back, etc., but here goes...

Would Syracuse ever consider giving up its private status and become a state institution? If there was a true Flagship D1 level program the entire state could wrap itself around, would this help in potentially getting SU into the B1G? Would this not create Syracuse from being/having a partition type following? Therefore, far more eyeballs on SU, TV ratings, etc. Central NY east to Utica love Syracuse as well as Syracuse west to Rochester. The North Country also loves the Orange. Of course NYC some as well, but not as much if that entire area could identify with the state's flagship institution.

I went to college in Buffalo back in the mid 80's and I recall how much the general area did not care for Syracuse. I remember going to a Syracuse vs. Canisius basketball game at the old Buffalo Auditorium and other than a few folks, most were not cheering at all for Syracuse, but rather booing. Living in the Charlotte, area for nearly three decades now, I'm somewhat out of touch relative to the aforementioned areas, etc. Is it still generally like this?

Unfortunately, from reading here, it appears that it's just a matter of time before the ACC breaks apart, especially once the GOR isn't as significant of a financial burden and schools such as FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA, etc. may be gone. These are all state flagship institutions that have a large following throughout their respective states.

Anyways, just a random brainstorming type thought...considering this survival of the fittest world of college football and as the time remains ticking on the GOR expiration.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

ASU and Zona are a package deal

I don't know about that, being an ASU grad, but if that's the case grab them both. I'd certainly prefer it for my own selfish reasons.

 

[CU44SE]

I'm somewhat hesitant to ask due to the potential push back, etc., but here goes...

Would Syracuse ever consider giving up its private status and become a state institution? If there was a true Flagship D1 level program the entire state could wrap itself around, would this help in potentially getting SU into the B1G? Would this not create Syracuse from being/having a partition type following? Therefore, far more eyeballs on SU, TV ratings, etc. Central NY east to Utica love Syracuse as well as Syracuse west to Rochester. The North Country also loves the Orange. Of course NYC some as well, but not as much if that entire area could identify with the state's flagship institution.

I went to college in Buffalo back in the mid 80's and I recall how much the general area did not care for Syracuse. I remember going to a Syracuse vs. Canisius basketball game at the old Buffalo Auditorium and other than a few folks, most were not cheering at all for Syracuse, but rather booing. Living in the Charlotte, area for nearly three decades now, I'm somewhat out of touch relative to the aforementioned areas, etc. Is it still generally like this?

Unfortunately, from reading here, it appears that it's just a matter of time before the ACC breaks apart, especially once the GOR isn't as significant of a financial burden and schools such as FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA, etc. may be gone. These are all state flagship institutions that have a large following throughout their respective states.

Anyways, just a random brainstorming type thought...considering this survival of the fittest world of college football and as the time remains ticking on the GOR expiration.

Sports wise it makes the most sense. State funding and larger university. But it will never happen.

 

[Willy75]

I'm somewhat hesitant to ask due to the potential push back, etc., but here goes...

Would Syracuse ever consider giving up its private status and become a state institution? If there was a true Flagship D1 level program the entire state could wrap itself around, would this help in potentially getting SU into the B1G? Would this not create Syracuse from being/having a partition type following? Therefore, far more eyeballs on SU, TV ratings, etc. Central NY east to Utica love Syracuse as well as Syracuse west to Rochester. The North Country also loves the Orange. Of course NYC some as well, but not as much if that entire area could identify with the state's flagship institution.

I went to college in Buffalo back in the mid 80's and I recall how much the general area did not care for Syracuse. I remember going to a Syracuse vs. Canisius basketball game at the old Buffalo Auditorium and other than a few folks, most were not cheering at all for Syracuse, but rather booing. Living in the Charlotte, area for nearly three decades now, I'm somewhat out of touch relative to the aforementioned areas, etc. Is it still generally like this?

Unfortunately, from reading here, it appears that it's just a matter of time before the ACC breaks apart, especially once the GOR isn't as significant of a financial burden and schools such as FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA, etc. may be gone. These are all state flagship institutions that have a large following throughout their respective states.

Anyways, just a random brainstorming type thought...considering this survival of the fittest world of college football and as the time remains ticking on the GOR expiration.

Of course. NYS does so well at everything else it touches.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I'm somewhat hesitant to ask due to the potential push back, etc., but here goes...

Would Syracuse ever consider giving up its private status and become a state institution? If there was a true Flagship D1 level program the entire state could wrap itself around, would this help in potentially getting SU into the B1G? Would this not create Syracuse from being/having a partition type following? Therefore, far more eyeballs on SU, TV ratings, etc. Central NY east to Utica love Syracuse as well as Syracuse west to Rochester. The North Country also loves the Orange. Of course NYC some as well, but not as much if that entire area could identify with the state's flagship institution.

I went to college in Buffalo back in the mid 80's and I recall how much the general area did not care for Syracuse. I remember going to a Syracuse vs. Canisius basketball game at the old Buffalo Auditorium and other than a few folks, most were not cheering at all for Syracuse, but rather booing. Living in the Charlotte, area for nearly three decades now, I'm somewhat out of touch relative to the aforementioned areas, etc. Is it still generally like this?

Unfortunately, from reading here, it appears that it's just a matter of time before the ACC breaks apart, especially once the GOR isn't as significant of a financial burden and schools such as FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA, etc. may be gone. These are all state flagship institutions that have a large following throughout their respective states.

Anyways, just a random brainstorming type thought...considering this survival of the fittest world of college football and as the time remains ticking on the GOR expiration.

I’ve advocated for this a long time ago. It makes too much sense.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I do think the ACC made a mistake not going to 16 with UCF and Cincy. FSU might have made a fuss but they can’t leave. It was best for the ACC long term to add those two. It prevents the B12 from going East and keeps the ACC with FLA should FSU leave one day. Now if FSU leaves the best you can do is USF/Miami vs having both UCF and USF, plus Miami.

 

[Chris02M]

I do think the ACC made a mistake not going to 16 with UCF and Cincy. FSU might have made a fuss but they can’t leave. It was best for the ACC long term to add those two. It prevents the B12 from going East and keeps the ACC with FLA should FSU leave one day. Now if FSU leaves the best you can do is USF/Miami vs having both UCF and USF, plus Miami.

If anybody leaves the acc at this point there will eventually be a conglomerate of leftover among the bottom 3 P5 to merge in some fashion whether a full on merger or a stronger alliance as there will always need to be a 2nd level of power 5. Also the big 12 contract expires in 31-32 which is probably a realistic timeframe for the sec and bigten to get whoever they want. The acc did make a mistake but it was probably espn saying we wont pay any additional for anyone but ND joining full time and thus we only had 1 spot to offer.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If anybody leaves the acc at this point there will eventually be a conglomerate of leftover among the bottom 3 P5 to merge in some fashion whether a full on merger or a stronger alliance as there will always need to be a 2nd level of power 5. Also the big 12 contract expires in 31-32 which is probably a realistic timeframe for the sec and bigten to get whoever they want. The acc did make a mistake but it was probably espn saying we wont pay any additional for anyone but ND joining full time and thus we only had 1 spot to offer.

Adding those two wouldn’t have increased the TV but it would have positioned the ACC to be #3 if the crap hits the fan. Now it is the B12 better positioned.

It would have been better to poach TCU, Houston, Kansas, BYU rather than having Louisville, Pitt, SU, BC have to go to the B12. Too much dead weight in the B12.

 

[Chris02M]

Adding those two wouldn’t have increased the TV but it would have positioned the ACC to be #3 if the crap hits the fan. Now it is the B12 better positioned.

It would have been better to poach TCU, Houston, Kansas, BYU rather than having Louisville, Pitt, SU, BC have to go to the B12. Too much dead weight in the B12.

better positioned in a non financial way only maybe. BYu is likely a non starter acc wise too

 

[Cusefan69]

So I would imagine that the ACC has worked up all the different "add" scenarios that likely included feedback from ESPN. What makes people think that isn't happening?

 

[Chris02M]

So I would imagine that the ACC has worked up all the different "add" scenarios that likely included feedback from ESPN. What makes people think that isn't happening?

they are all on the acc is doomed team

 

[TerryD]

So I would imagine that the ACC has worked up all the different "add" scenarios that likely included feedback from ESPN. What makes people think that isn't happening?

It doesn't add much to the ESPN payment to the ACC ??

 

[Bayside44]

I’ve advocated for this a long time ago. It makes too much sense.

It's completely insane.

 

[Cusefan69]

It doesn't add much to the ESPN payment to the ACC ??

That could be the case. My comment was intended to challenge those who in their comments suggest the ACC is not doing anything or is not evaluating scenarios. Just because there is nothing new to be reported does not mean review and analysis isn't happening behind the scenes.

 

[qdawgg]

That could be the case. My comment was intended to challenge those who in their comments suggest the ACC is not doing anything or is not evaluating scenarios. Just because there is nothing new to be reported does not mean review and analysis isn't happening behind the scenes.

I’m sure there’s review and analysis. But what’s there to evaluate. “We could add this crappy school or this one, if Clemson leaves we could replace them with a school that doesn’t even come close”.

What’s there even to talk about. Any of the important teams in the conference are the only ones the B10 and SEC would look like. There’s nobody to replace them with. When teams in the ACC bail, the conference becomes a more bottom tier conference than it is.

 

[baggerbob]

It won't even happen in 12 years IMO. These things come in stages. FSU and Clemson need to both leave to destabilize the ACC. Is the B1G willing to take those schools? Does the SEC risk cannibalizing Florida, South Carolina, and to a lessor extent the rest of the FLA/GA recruiting?

Even if FSU and Clemson leave it will take a few years before UNC gives up and decides between the B1G and SEC. IMO it makes more sense for them to be B1G. Although do they want little brother with SEC bragging rights? Although either school would get buried competitively. I think they take UVA along with them to the B1G. Since they have leverage, if they wanted to they could save Duke but that IMO isn't likely.

Not long after UNC/UVA go to the B1G, the SEC would take NC State and VA Tech. And not long after that IMO the B1G would grab GA Tech and Miami. The B1G is in population decreasing states and states that lack recruiting. Getting into GA and FLA is important to compete with the SEC.

The rest of the schools need to then decide a 20+ team B12 or build something together with like minded schools. I think Louisville easily jumps. The rest IMO should stay.

I think a left over ACC + Northeastern additions will be a lot better for SU the decade following the Franken 12 vs ACC Northeast decision. I don't think that B12 even gets $30M a year. I think the new ACC could get close to $20M. But let's say that the gap is $15M. But that doesn't take into account the ACC buyouts (which might be close to $1B split 6 ways). SU is looking at something like $100M-$150M. It is going to take 8 years of being in the B12 to catch that. Also all that money up front can help build up our programs.

Also being in the new ACC has a lot less in travel costs with bites into that $15M difference. IMO SU BBall would die off as we know it in that B12, which will be a clear #4 conference. In the new ACC we would thrive, within arguably the best BBall conference. We make a living recruiting DC to Boston. It will be harder to get kids to that B12 playing ONE game a year in that corridor. In the new ACC we would play five.

Is the point of playing college sports to win or maximize profits? In that B12 we are looking at 6-6 as typical football seasons. In the new ACC we can go 9-4 routinely. And we could actually make the playoffs at a decent clip. We wouldn't sniff the B12 CG. That is more money to SU as well. Plus playoff money gets split 10 ways vs 20+ ways so we get at least 2x the money in the ACC even if we don't make it.

If our teams are more successful that will bring more money in donations and ticket sales, which bites even more from that $15M difference. Heck the new ACC would increase our BBall ticket sales vs the current one.

Oh and hello MSG BBall Tourney. Can you imagine day 1 Pitt vs USF and BC vs Wake, day 2 Duke vs BC and UConn vs Pitt and Nova vs St Johns and SU vs Georgetown, day 3 Duke vs SU and UConn vs Nova?

FB conf CG would be at the #1 seed so we could actually host an ACC CG. How fun is that?

The early Big East had 9 BBall teams. We can get 7 of those teams back together in the new Northeastern based ACC. We would be trading Seton Hall and Providence for Duke, Wake, USF. I think that is a net positive and we are able to have a FB conference too. And round robin schedules!

It doesn't add much to the ESPN payment to the ACC ??

Sorry Terry, but ESPN has no desire to save the ACC, their baby is the SEC.
They don't need to help the ACC survive, they have the rights on the cheap through 2036. Why should they do anything to help the ACC?

 

[Chris02M]

Sorry Terry, but ESPN has no desire to save the ACC, their baby is the SEC.
They don't need to help the ACC survive, they have the rights on the cheap through 2036. Why should they do anything to help the ACC?

they have obligations to fill in programming so they have some incentive to keep the acc afloat

 

[Chris02M]

Im pretty sure the last look period in we waved the right when the acc network got launched, I would anticipate another bump at the next period around 2025-26 which probably when we will go to 9 conference games as the sec will be at 9 by then

 

[Cusefan69]

I’m sure there’s review and analysis. But what’s there to evaluate. “We could add this crappy school or this one, if Clemson leaves we could replace them with a school that doesn’t even come close”.

What’s there even to talk about. Any of the important teams in the conference are the only ones the B10 and SEC would look like. There’s nobody to replace them with. When teams in the ACC bail, the conference becomes a more bottom tier conference than it is.

Smarter guys then me are looking so I don't know completely. Again the point being that I don't think ACC leadership is not looking for alternative revenue paths, whatever those are. Some folk seem to just have this fatalistic, everything is done and we lose thinking. There's still plenty of time to try and find new solutions.

 

[kcsu]

10 years from now is a very long time. I believe strongly that the ACC will end up in a solid 3 spot

 

[qdawgg]

10 years from now is a very long time. I believe strongly that the ACC will end up in a solid 3 spot

Unfortunately there’s a high percentage that a solid 3 spot 10 years from now is still a very watered down ACC compared to today. It’ll still be the equivalent of being in the Big East

 

[Orangefizz]

If anybody leaves the acc at this point there will eventually be a conglomerate of leftover among the bottom 3 P5 to merge in some fashion whether a full on merger or a stronger alliance as there will always need to be a 2nd level of power 5. Also the big 12 contract expires in 31-32 which is probably a realistic timeframe for the sec and bigten to get whoever they want. The acc did make a mistake but it was probably espn saying we wont pay any additional for anyone but ND joining full time and thus we only had 1 spot to offer.

Nations Conference
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
UCF

Louisville
Cincinnati
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St

Oklahoma St
Texas Tech
Houston
Baylor
TCU

BYU
Arizona St
Oregon St
Washington St
San Diego St

Add Colorado, Utah, Arizona if they aren’t eventually absorbed into the BIG/SEC

 

[Toga]

Nations Conference
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
UCF

Louisville
Cincinnati
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St

Oklahoma St
Texas Tech
Houston
Baylor
TCU

BYU
Arizona St
Oregon St
Washington St
San Diego St

'Merica