ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[longtimefan]

Lots of interesting--even outside-the-box--thoughts in this thread.

One that hasn't been mentioned much is the potential of the ACC Network. The PAC-12 basically failed in their attempt to launch a network; the ACC version has been much more successful. With ESPN input, could an agreement be made for the ACCN to carry PAC content? That would make the ACCN a more interesting watch for more hours of the day. "The Conference of Champions" certainly would have excellent Olympic sports to showcase, plus late night options in the money sports for viewers all over the country. Such a working relationship could lead to increased scheduling in football and basketball. Of course, the bean counters would have to crunch the numbers to see if such an arrangement would unlock additional revenues.

This would seem more likely than a merger or the absorbtion of some schools by the other league.

 

[Toga]

Lots of interesting--even outside-the-box--thoughts in this thread.

One that hasn't been mentioned much is the potential of the ACC Network. The PAC-12 basically failed in their attempt to launch a network; the ACC version has been much more successful. With ESPN input, could an agreement be made for the ACCN to carry PAC content? That would make the ACCN a more interesting watch for more hours of the day. "The Conference of Champions" certainly would have excellent Olympic sports to showcase, plus late night options in the money sports for viewers all over the country. Such a working telationship could lead increased scheduling in football and basketball. Of course, the bean counters would have to crunch the numbers to see if such an arrangement would unlock additional revenues.

This would seem more likely than a merger or the absorbtion of some schools by the other league.

Some folks watching the ACCN need some late night wagering opportunities. More eyeballs.

 

[All4SU]

Nations Conference
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
UCF

Louisville
Cincinnati
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St

Oklahoma St
Texas Tech
Houston
Baylor
TCU

BYU
Arizona St
Oregon St
Washington St
San Diego St

Add Colorado, Utah, Arizona if they aren’t eventually absorbed into the BIG/SEC

What happened to FSU, Clemson, Miami, Virginia, UNC, GTech, VTech, Duke, Wake, NCSt, and ND?

 

[Orangefizz]

What happened to FSU, Clemson, Miami, Virginia, UNC, GTech, VTech, Duke, Wake, NCSt, and ND?

Here’s how I see it playing out eventually.

FSU CLEMSON VT NCST to SEC
UVA UNC GT MIAMI ND to Big10

Duke to Ivy

WF SOL

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Nations Conference
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
UCF

Louisville
Cincinnati
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St

Oklahoma St
Texas Tech
Houston
Baylor
TCU

BYU
Arizona St
Oregon St
Washington St
San Diego St

Add Colorado, Utah, Arizona if they aren’t eventually absorbed into the BIG/SEC

If you are starting a conference from scratch to maximize revenue, I would say the following...

BC, SU, Temple, UConn
Pitt, Cincinnati, Louisville, West Virginia
UCF, USF, Duke, ECU (or maybe James Madison since all of this is 10 years in the future)
TCU, Houston, Oklahoma State, Kansas (although I think either the B1G or SEC grabs them)
BYU, Arizona State, UNLV, San Diego State


The rest of the teams you had listed are all dead weight. And Duke is not going to the Ivy. That would minimize their BBall program and they would need to drop to FCS in football.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Lots of interesting--even outside-the-box--thoughts in this thread.

One that hasn't been mentioned much is the potential of the ACC Network. The PAC-12 basically failed in their attempt to launch a network; the ACC version has been much more successful. With ESPN input, could an agreement be made for the ACCN to carry PAC content? That would make the ACCN a more interesting watch for more hours of the day. "The Conference of Champions" certainly would have excellent Olympic sports to showcase, plus late night options in the money sports for viewers all over the country. Such a working telationship could lead to increased scheduling in football and basketball. Of course, the bean counters would have to crunch the numbers to see if such an arrangement would unlock additional revenues.

This would seem more likely than a merger or the absorbtion of some schools by the other league.

I think at best the ACC would want only 8 P12 teams. If you added Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado you can fit that into the ACC. Then you can add 2 teams from UConn, Temple, Nova, USF. If you split everyone into 6 divisions of 4, it works out that you play everyone once every 4 years in FB and home and away every 4 years in BBall. Have ND play one team from each division yearly (so the ACC gets a 6th game). That means we all get ND once every 4 years.

Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Cal
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
SU, BC, UConn, Pitt
Louisville, VA Tech, UVA, Wake
Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke
GA Tech, FSU, Miami, USF (if no USF put Clemson here, move Wake with the other NC schools, Pitt down a line, and Temple/Nova with our group)

So for SU FB we would have something like...

Year 1
BC, UConn, Pitt, Washington, Colorado, Louisville, Duke, GA Tech, plus 1 cross over, Notre Dame, 2 MAC schools

Year 2
BC, UConn, Pitt, Oregon, Utah, VA Tech, NC State, USF, plus 1 cross over, OOC P5 (preferably from Penn State, West Virginia, Maryland, Rutgers, Northwestern), 2 MAC schools

Year 3
BC, UConn, Pitt, Stanford, Arizona State, UVA, UNC, FSU, plus 1 cross over, OOC P5, 2 MAC schools

Year 4
BC, UConn, Pitt, Cal, Arizona, Wake, Clemson, Miami, plus 1 cross over, OOC P5, 2 MAC schools

Our cross overs will likely be from FSU, Miami, USF, Louisville, VA Tech.

For SU BBall it would be...

Year 1
BC, @BC, UConn, @UConn, Pitt, @Pitt, Oregon, Stanford, Utah, Arizona State (2 of those old P12 would be on the road), Louisville, VA Tech, Duke, NC State, GA Tech, USF, plus 4 cross over/Notre Dame games.

Year 2
BC, @BC, UConn, @UConn, Pitt, @Pitt, Washington, Cal, Arizona, Colorado, UVA, Wake, UNC, Clemson, FSU, Miami, plus 4 cross over/Notre Dame games.

 

[Hoo's That]

Here’s how I see it playing out eventually.

FSU CLEMSON VT NCST to SEC
UVA UNC GT MIAMI ND to Big10

Duke to Ivy

WF SOL

I don't think that would take Duke due to distance and Duke wouldn't be willing to accept the restrictions the Ivies put on recruiting.

If the Ivies ever expanded, I could see them taking in Colgate and Johns Hopkins (if JHU was forced to elevate all its sports to D-1 because of lacrosse). It would be balanced geographically and the last football games of the season could be Penn-JHU and Cornell-Colgate (even though Penn and Cornell probably wouldn't like it). From what I understand from JHU folks, the money is there to move everything to D-1 if necessary,

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[SU68]

'Merica

Those of a certain age will remember LBJ (President Lyndon Johnson) pronouncing it 'Murica.

 

[elimunelson]

I don't think that would take Duke due to distance and Duke wouldn't be willing to accept the restrictions the Ivies put on recruiting.

If the Ivies ever expanded, I could see them taking in Colgate and Johns Hopkins (if JHU was forced to elevate all its sports to D-1 because of lacrosse). It would be balanced geographically and the last football games of the season could be Penn-JHU and Cornell-Colgate (even though Penn and Cornell probably wouldn't like it). From what I understand from JHU folks, the money is there to move everything to D-1 if necessary,

it's funny how everything in college sports is changing by the hour and the Ivy League continues to hum along with zero changes to how they do business.

With them all starting to remove SAT as a requirement, their next steps should be expansion tbh. These progressive institutions of learning are perhaps the most rigid and conservative when it comes to providing additional opportunities and expanding their footprint.

I hope in the next 10 years, they'll fold more schools into the league and expand what it means to be an ivy league student athlete.

 

[Consigliere]

A one year safe harbor during a global pandemic.

I am talking about ND ever making a statement that football was going to permanently join the ACC.

There are none. However, I keep seeing references to ND hinting that it would join forever and in full. That is false. That never happened.

If anyone in the ACC says that they believed differently, well, there were mistaken and/or delusional or just lying.

Actually I believe there is a contractual commitment that precludes Notre Dame from joining any other conference until the expiration of current GOR. Of course they could pay exit fees and forfeit media rights to all other sports than football. Much easier for them than FSU.

Notre Dame Fighting Irish

saturdayroad.com

 

[Toga]

Actually I believe there is a contractual commitment that precludes Notre Dame from joining any other conference until the expiration of current GOR. Of course they could pay exit fees and forfeit media rights to all other sports than football. Much easier for them than FSU.

Notre Dame Fighting Irish

saturdayroad.com

3 ... 2 ... 1

 

[Cusefan69]

What was this?

 

[shantydaze]

When discussing the B1G, the decisions are being made by university presidents and not athletic directors. While I assume this is the same in most conferences, there has been no indication the majority of B1G presidents are ready to sell their academic souls to the athletic devil.

One thing that gets discussed quite often in connection to B1G candidacy is AAU membership. In the history of the conference, only three schools have been added (including associate members) that have not been part of the AAU - Ohio State (added in 1912 and joined AAU in 1916), Michigan State (added in 1950 and joined AAU in 1964), and Notre Dame (joined as an associate member for hockey in 2017). Currently, Nebraska is the only full-time member not in the AAU, but was a member when its candidacy was accepted.

The B1G has made it clear that it will (and already has) relaxed the unwritten rule related to AAU status for Notre Dame. Whether it will for any other school is less clear. According to internet rumors, Texas and Oklahoma approached the B1G about membership prior to talking to the SEC, but the B1G were not willing to relax the AAU/academic expectations for Oklahoma, however (that the SEC may have been OUT second choice has, not surprisingly, been denied by the SEC and the schools). If true, it shows the (majority) of the B1G presidents still care about the academic reputation of the conference as a whole.

I bring this up because the state of Florida only has one AAU member university and it is not FSU or Miami. Right now, the following P5 Conference schools outside of the B1G are in the AAU:

• Georgia Institute of Technology (ACC)
• Texas A&M University (SEC)
• The University of Arizona (Pac)
• University of California, Berkeley (Pac)
• University of Colorado, Boulder (Pac)
• Duke University (ACC)
• University of Florida (SEC)
• The University of Kansas (XII)
• University of Missouri, Columbia (SEC)
• The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (ACC)
• University of Oregon (Pac)
• University of Pittsburgh (ACC)
• Stanford University (Pac)
• The University of Texas at Austin (SEC)
• The University of Utah (Pac)
• University of Virginia (ACC)
• University of Washington (Pac)

Neither FSU nor Clemson is on this list. From an eastern expansion, internet rumor was that at the time Maryland jumped to the B1G, it also had courted UNC and UVA, but both indicated a preference to stay in the ACC. Further, internet rumor is that both Washington and Oregon contacted the B1G about membership after USC and UCLA left, but the B1G's media partners did not put enough value on the schools to maintain or increase the payout to the B1G schools.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that Notre Dame holds the cards as to further B1G expansion and if there is further expansion, it will come from the list above. The B1G university presidents, as well the alumni to which I have spoken, care about the academic component of the conference. Also, as the last media rights deal demonstrated, the B1G does not need a "brand" like FSU or Clemson to rake in the $$$. It can be choosy when picking schools that fall within its criteria (whatever that is). The SEC is no different.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

What was this?

Big Ten completes $7B deal with Fox, CBS, NBC

The Big Ten has completed a new seven-year media rights agreement with Fox, CBS and NBC that is set to bring in more than $7 billion to one of the nation's most powerful athletic conferences.

www.espn.com

ESPN won't have the rights to BigTen content starting next season.

 

[Hoo's That]

Actually I believe there is a contractual commitment that precludes Notre Dame from joining any other conference until the expiration of current GOR. Of course they could pay exit fees and forfeit media rights to all other sports than football. Much easier for them than FSU.

Notre Dame Fighting Irish

saturdayroad.com

You are correct. The ND agreement regarding joining a conference for football and the GOR for their other sports (minus hockey) was extended to 2036 as part of the ACCN start-up.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

When discussing the B1G, the decisions are being made by university presidents and not athletic directors. While I assume this is the same in most conferences, there has been no indication the majority of B1G presidents are ready to sell their academic souls to the athletic devil.

One thing that gets discussed quite often in connection to B1G candidacy is AAU membership. In the history of the conference, only three schools have been added (including associate members) that have not been part of the AAU - Ohio State (added in 1912 and joined AAU in 1916), Michigan State (added in 1950 and joined AAU in 1964), and Notre Dame (joined as an associate member for hockey in 2017). Currently, Nebraska is the only full-time member not in the AAU, but was a member when its candidacy was accepted.

The B1G has made it clear that it will (and already has) relaxed the unwritten rule related to AAU status for Notre Dame. Whether it will for any other school is less clear. According to internet rumors, Texas and Oklahoma approached the B1G about membership prior to talking to the SEC, but the B1G were not willing to relax the AAU/academic expectations for Oklahoma, however (that the SEC may have been OUT second choice has, not surprisingly, been denied by the SEC and the schools). If true, it shows the (majority) of the B1G presidents still care about the academic reputation of the conference as a whole.

I bring this up because the state of Florida only has one AAU member university and it is not FSU or Miami. Right now, the following P5 Conference schools outside of the B1G are in the AAU:

• Georgia Institute of Technology (ACC)
• Texas A&M University (SEC)
• The University of Arizona (Pac)
• University of California, Berkeley (Pac)
• University of Colorado, Boulder (Pac)
• Duke University (ACC)
• University of Florida (SEC)
• The University of Kansas (XII)
• University of Missouri, Columbia (SEC)
• The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (ACC)
• University of Oregon (Pac)
• University of Pittsburgh (ACC)
• Stanford University (Pac)
• The University of Texas at Austin (SEC)
• The University of Utah (Pac)
• University of Virginia (ACC)
• University of Washington (Pac)

Neither FSU nor Clemson is on this list. From an eastern expansion, internet rumor was that at the time Maryland jumped to the B1G, it also had courted UNC and UVA, but both indicated a preference to stay in the ACC. Further, internet rumor is that both Washington and Oregon contacted the B1G about membership after USC and UCLA left, but the B1G's media partners did not put enough value on the schools to maintain or increase the payout to the B1G schools.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that Notre Dame holds the cards as to further B1G expansion and if there is further expansion, it will come from the list above. The B1G university presidents, as well the alumni to which I have spoken, care about the academic component of the conference. Also, as the last media rights deal demonstrated, the B1G does not need a "brand" like FSU or Clemson to rake in the $$$. It can be choosy when picking schools that fall within its criteria (whatever that is). The SEC is no different.

I agree that they will take academics into account. Which as of now makes it harder for FSU to get an invite. I don't think the B1G would eliminate just on AAU membership. It is preferred but I think if a school has a good undergrad and not big into research, they should consider a school. SU, BC, Miami, Notre Dame fit that. Clemson is better than several B1G schools. I think VA Tech would be similar should UVA go to the SEC. If the B1G would take ND why in the heck would they turn down Miami or SU based on AAU?

I do think AAU can help the chances of schools like Cal and Duke who don't offer much outside of that. Same for Rice, but that is a long long shot.

Looking at B1G IMO they would take a look at...

Oregon (AAU), Washington (AAU), Stanford (AAU), Cal (AAU), Arizona (AAU), Utah (AAU), Colorado (AAU), Kansas (AAU), Notre Dame (non AAU) SU (used to be AAU), BC (non AAU), Pitt (AAU but I think they would only get in to round things off), UVA (AAU), VA Tech (non AAU), UNC (AAU), Duke (AAU), Clemson (non AAU), GA Tech (AAU), FSU (non AAU), Miami (non AAU), Rice (AAU), Missouri (AAU), Vanderbilt (AAU), A&M (AAU), McGill (AAU), Toronto (AAU).


Networks like fanbases in multiple regions. Just look at the MLS expansion. That league doesn't have enough talent to justify half as many teams as they have. Yet they are about to go to 30 teams, when you have the German league at 18 and other European leagues talking about contracting from 20.

I think the networks would be all for those P12 teams, with maybe the exception of Cal. They all add new states, new markets, new fanbases, and are good athletically. They also add more content, and interregional content. Consolidating content can drive TV contracts up.

The same can be said of the ACC teams. The B1G would need to bend more for FSU than the other schools, but if it is just one exception the conference won't go to hell. IMO they made a mistake with Oklahoma.

The SEC schools are interesting. Are they happy in the SEC? Would the SEC adding Texas make A&M consider it? Mizzou wanted the B1G but jumped when the SEC offered. Would they leave? Vandy does not fit in the SEC, could they leave?

The Canadian teams would be interesting. Would they play American football? Can research money be easily pooled without having too many Government hoops to jump through? They are not at the level of US schools athletically so it would be an extreme long shot even with the 2 big markets.

 

[TexanMark]

If somehow a few of the PAC12 teams skip over to the Big12...the ACC is in a really bad spot.

With the ACCN and the instate subscriber rate it actually makes some sense to add teams in high population states out West.

 

[CU44SE]

If somehow a few of the PAC12 teams skip over to the Big12...the ACC is in a really bad spot.

With the ACCN and the instate subscriber rate it actually makes some sense to add teams in high population states out West.

Not to mention; ESPN has now lost a lot of content with Big 10 now gone. Would bring in more content on top of the subscription fees for ACCN

 

[TerryD]

Sorry Terry, but ESPN has no desire to save the ACC, their baby is the SEC.
They don't need to help the ACC survive, they have the rights on the cheap through 2036. Why should they do anything to help the ACC?

No need to apologize to me. I am not a fan of any conference.

 

[shantydaze]

IMO they made a mistake with Oklahoma.

I agree with this. Although, Texas has not shown the ability to play nice with others, so maybe the B1G dodged a bullet? We will see how they do with their new conference mates.

 

[Hoo's That]

I agree with this. Although, Texas has not shown the ability to play nice with others, so maybe the B1G dodged a bullet? We will see how they do with their new conference mates.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Expansion thus far has been stealthy. The fact that we hear about the B12 going for the Corners likely makes it untrue. The P12 has better brands, fanbases, and markets. Could we see them grab Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston?

 

[TexanMark]

Expansion thus far has been stealthy. The fact that we hear about the B12 going for the Corners likely makes it untrue. The P12 has better brands, fanbases, and markets. Could we see them grab Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston?

IIRC the Big12 teams signed a new GOR recently

 

[HRE Otto IV]

IIRC the Big12 teams signed a new GOR recently

Well there goes that theory.