Achilles injuries..

[MSOrange]

My dad think his tore his slipping on the stairs and will find out tomorrow at the doc. But I have no idea why it happens to NFL players

 

[RyanCuse44]

I think turning sneakers into cleats plays a role too. More concerned with the look than the function.

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^
Back in the day you had a lot of decent support with sneakers, especially b-ball ones, but now they don't seem too and have seen many of guys popping Achilles while playing pick-up ball.

 

[RyanCuse44]

It's like the French have a different word for everything.

 

[Cuse99&01]

That was a crazy short article for a scientific publication, and it hit the points I thought would have been raised - increasing size of players, and turf/surface. The one I did not know about was limitations on coaching staff contact with players in the offseason, so they can't monitor physical preparedness. Sort of the opposite of college ball.

But I cannot believe that got through peer review (is it a reviewed publication?) and they spelled Aaron Rodgers' name wrong right at the beginning of the abstract. Threw me right out of the gate.

While it is a peer reviewed journal, it has an impact factor of 1.6 (not strong). The article reads almost like a letter to the editor or opinion piece, which comes with less strict ‘peer review’.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I have no science to back this up, but there may be some out there. I think a lot of it is youth sports. I believe Dr. James Andrews wrote a book about his observation of increased injuries amongst youth athletes. A lot of these guys started playing year round organized sports much younger than kids a generation or two ago, and they also shifted their focus to a single sport that they play/train in year round at a much earlier age. It makes sense that the increased wear and tear would add up, and sometimes guys are doing things at an age that young bodies aren't ready for and being trained by people that don't know what they're doing. I think you see it in basketball too. You rarely saw the big stars using "load management" back in the day. Now it's almost expected.

I’m shocked at how much they let kids pitch all year. Seems awful for the arms. No wonder they all have Tommy John. The human body can only tolerate so much repeated stress. Kids don’t need to play the same sport all year.

 

[721Comstock]

croissant

Bonjour.

 

[javadoc]

I’m shocked at how much they let kids pitch all year. Seems awful for the arms. No wonder they all have Tommy John. The human body can only tolerate so much repeated stress. Kids don’t need to play the same sport all year.

Wonder if NYS football players have less injuries for this reason.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Steve Martin for the Win

“I want a shoe with cheese on it and I want to massage your grandmother.”

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Bonjour.

Ca va

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think overtraining plays a big part. A high percentage seem to happen to guys with other preexisting calf and ankle injuries.

 

[SUskibum]

I don’t ever recall seeing so many in football. (George Kittle just snapped his).

Can someone who understands football training explain why they seem much more common?

One of the all time renowned strength coaches, particularly across olympic 'power dominated' sports, Charles Poliquin 'Strength Sensei' Strength Sensei, would tell you it's from the training dogma that was dominant from the 1980's for the next 40ish years.

The main idea, particulary for lower body was that squats and other leg press type movements should be restricted so that the hips go farther back and the shins stay more upright, supposedly helping take stress off the knees. The problem with this adjustment is the the back gets extra stress and you never load the ankle in full flexion (which would require the knees traveling over the toes which was a no-no for decades)

If you consistantly load the ankle (and knee) in a shorter than natural range of motion, and then play a sport that stresses those joints beyond the trained range of motion, you get issues (duh!). For example, look at Angeli's foot/ankle angle when he plants on his injury, he was asking for maximum torque while his ankle was a maximum flexion, a level of force he may or may not have trained at that flexion angle.

Recently, some top sport scientists like Brad Shoenfeld, PHD and others (including influencers like Ben Patrick 'knees over toes guy') have been proving this hypothesis out with scientific studies, but since a whole generation of trainers have dominated sports training for a generation, it will likely take time to shift.

When you hear coaches talk about building strength (and power) though a full range of motion being emphasized, or 'mobility' work, thats when you know you have a trainer who is taking the more modern (actually ancient if you ask Charles) approach to stressing and training the joints as completely across the range of motion as possible. This loading across the full joint range makes them less vulnerable when they are put in high strain situations way beyond the range of motion you see typically trained by trainers that came out of partial range of motion school from 1980-2010

 

[Toga]

Ca va

Ca va bien

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Ca va bien

Ca va?

 

[HyattsCuse]

That was a crazy short article for a scientific publication, and it hit the points I thought would have been raised - increasing size of players, and turf/surface. The one I did not know about was limitations on coaching staff contact with players in the offseason, so they can't monitor physical preparedness. Sort of the opposite of college ball.

But I cannot believe that got through peer review (is it a reviewed publication?) and they spelled Aaron Rodgers' name wrong right at the beginning of the abstract. Threw me right out of the gate.

Good catch on the Rodgers typo! It is peer reviewed.

Yeah, it’s short. I mentioned it was light reading for that reason.

I still thought it was interesting since it included stats that confirmed Jake’s comments about an increase, it shows there are actually medical people out there that have this topic on their radar, and the list of 5 points with possible contributing factors.

 

[Toga]

Ca va?

I studied at the Sorbonne for a semester but my French is a total disgrace. I mean I hardly studied when there were road trips to be had.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Bonjour.

Chauffeur!

This is fun!

 

[orange79]

French toast!

Am I doing this right?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

French toast!

Am I doing this right?

Uh, it’s freedom toast.

So no.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

French toast!

Am I doing this right?

Pan Purdue or something like that.

 

[anomander]

B

I don’t ever recall seeing so many in football. (George Kittle just snapped his).

Can someone who understands football training explain why they seem much more common?

Bigger, larger, faster, more explosive players create a greater load on the achilles. The recent ones are interesting because typically it would happen between start and stop explosive cuts, but some have just been normal runs. Could also be other factors like playing with an injury and putting more stress on the achilles that gets damaged. Mostly, the bigger and more explosive players get, the more you’ll see these type of injuries.

 

[AZOrange]

One of the all time renowned strength coaches, particularly across olympic 'power dominated' sports, Charles Poliquin 'Strength Sensei' Strength Sensei, would tell you it's from the training dogma that was dominant from the 1980's for the next 40ish years.

The main idea, particulary for lower body was that squats and other leg press type movements should be restricted so that the hips go farther back and the shins stay more upright, supposedly helping take stress off the knees. The problem with this adjustment is the the back gets extra stress and you never load the ankle in full flexion (which would require the knees traveling over the toes which was a no-no for decades)

If you consistantly load the ankle (and knee) in a shorter than natural range of motion, and then play a sport that stresses those joints beyond the trained range of motion, you get issues (duh!). For example, look at Angeli's foot/ankle angle when he plants on his injury, he was asking for maximum torque while his ankle was a maximum flexion, a level of force he may or may not have trained at that flexion angle.

Recently, some top sport scientists like Brad Shoenfeld, PHD and others (including influencers like Ben Patrick 'knees over toes guy') have been proving this hypothesis out with scientific studies, but since a whole generation of trainers have dominated sports training for a generation, it will likely take time to shift.

When you hear coaches talk about building strength (and power) though a full range of motion being emphasized, or 'mobility' work, thats when you know you have a trainer who is taking the more modern (actually ancient if you ask Charles) approach to stressing and training the joints as completely across the range of motion as possible. This loading across the full joint range makes them less vulnerable when they are put in high strain situations way beyond the range of motion you see typically trained by trainers that came out of partial range of motion school from 1980-2010

Totally agree in addition to the near complete focus on strength in the upper calf. I’m a big believer and user of knees over toes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Totally agree in addition to the near complete focus on strength in the upper calf. I’m a big believer and user of knees over toes.

Minor quibble, I believe the proper song lyric is "knees and toes," not "knees over toes."

 

[IthacaMatt]

Your observation is accurate. Here’s a little light reading for you (and anyone else interested) that gives some possible reasons.

An Apparent Achilles Heel of the NFL: Have Achilles Tendon Injuries Significantly Increased to Unacceptably High Incidence Levels in the NFL and if so, why? A Clinical Insight - PMC

Many if not most of us watched in utter disbelief and horror last September 11th as Aaron Rogers, the newly acquired $75 million dollar quarterback with the New York Jets just 4 snaps into the new season, suffered an Achilles Tendon ruptures (ATR) ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thank you. Excerpt from a linked / related article about NFL players' ability to return to play (RTP), post-Achilles rupture:

Conclusion:​

Rate of RTP following primary Achilles tendon tears may be lower than previously published. However, for those able to return, performance only in the season immediately following injury appears to be affected; players return to pre-injury levels if given the opportunity to play >1 season after injury.

 

[dollarbill44]

Minor quibble, I believe the proper song lyric is "knees and toes," not "knees over toes."

That song actually covers a lot of sports injuries.
Head: concussion
Shoulders: torn labrum
Knees: ACL
Toes: turf toe

I think some sports medicine programs actually make first years learn it during orientation.

 

[sufandu]

I’m shocked at how much they let kids pitch all year. Seems awful for the arms. No wonder they all have Tommy John. The human body can only tolerate so much repeated stress. Kids don’t need to play the same sport all year.

The majority of the stuff I've read from Dr. Andrews is regarding youth pitchers, how much they throw year round, and the types of pitches they're throwing at young ages. He said he saw a significant jump in his own practice of teenagers needing Tommy John. This was about 15 or so years ago that I read it. In his opinion, youth baseball pitchers shouldn't throw for 4 months out of the year. And he specifically said they shouldn't throw anything. A pitcher playing QB during football season doesn't count as a break.