ADJW on Dino: "He's going to be our coach in 2021"

[TheCusian]

You are a true looks through orange tinted glasses fan on everything. Recruiting has stunk. Let the truth set you free. College FB is not that difficult to understand as a coach. You recruit lousy, the team will stink. Like 1-10 stink.

Dino is going into Year 6. Recruiting should be far better. It isn't. Other programs use far advanced recruiting systems and procedures

Lol. I’m not making the case we’re killing it on the recruiting trail. Only that if it stretches through like 4 HC, it’s probably systemic and difficult to overcome.

 

[TheCusian]

1-10. How does that stat taste? Do you ever read your own posts. Such a homer. Be a fan. That is fine. But try to be a little objective for once. Think about what you are writing first. When every post is a total homer post you lack credibility. The FB team just finished last again...yeeesh!!

You’re clearly new here troll

 

[kcsu]

We recruited higher than BC, overall. We recruited higher rated Oline. Addazio is great at developing an Oline. He took the lowest ranked oline recruits in the ACC, and made them the #1 Oline in the ACC. Thats how.

Embrace the meathead dazzler.
Actually he would have done very well at SU.

 

[kcsu]

Really hope that we push back the 2022 Purdue game to 2024. I think the entire team is two years away from a potential breakthrough year. Yet we have two P5 games OOC like idiots.

Part of the reason why I hate Duke, NC State, Wake is because they schedule weak OOC every year. Then they start 5-1, get overhyped, and finish 7-5 overall.

We also play LSU, Missouri, ND on the road.

 

[RandomGuy]

2017	YPP	YPP Rank out of 130
Sterlin Gilbert, USF	6.15	#35
Sean Lewis/Lynch, Syracuse	5.33	#95

Did ya work for you. If you want to split it, you can look up what the defenses each team faced that year looked like so we can factor it in, you know for efficiencies sake.

I've been down on Gilbert. Part, is because TE is probably my favorite position in football. (Both lineman and receiver). He's always used them sparingly. :-(

I can understand how a lack of spring didnt give him all the info required. Tommy's throwing ability is obvious. There's always more to it. Gilbert did seem to adapt. Please, please, give Tommy that short package until Dino fixes the line.

I will always disagree with a lack of TE usage, but this is a promising stat, and I dont mind if I'm wrong. In fact, if it shows in the W column, I'll embrace it.

 

[RandomGuy]

Embrace the meathead dazzler.
Actually he would have done very well at SU.

Addazio can take 2 and 3 star lineman, and make them the best in the league. He develops them. Thats how oline works. On his way out the door? He picked up two 4 star linemen for that reason. (We're still ahead, overall)

Addazio didn't pay lip service to the "it all starts in the trenches" cliche. He did it.

Babers mentality, and Addazio's line developement? Yeah. I think we'd kill it.

 

[TheCusian]

I've been down on Gilbert. Part, is because TE is probably my favorite position in football. (Both lineman and receiver). He's always used them sparingly. :-(

I can understand how a lack of spring didnt give him all the info required. Tommy's throwing ability is obvious. There's always more to it. Gilbert did seem to adapt. Please, please, give Tommy that short package until Dino fixes the line.

I will always disagree with a lack of TE usage, but this is a promising stat, and I dont mind if I'm wrong. In fact, if it shows in the W column, I'll embrace it.

I’m down on the whole Briles offense to be honest. Seems like it’s been found out a bit. My hope is that Sterlin can evolve things to a point where it’s something that can really work again, even with our deficiencies.

We’ll see. Either way the OL and QB has to be better

 

[kcsu]

Addazio is an exceptional OLine coach. I dont really think that Dino is a good position coach. Dinos gift is his personality. He needs to surround himself with strong coaches. I think White is going to end up being a great hire. Not sure about our OC, WR or Oline coaches. The problems on offense are deeper than just talent.

 

[Nicknack]

Who actually thinks he can turn it around in a year. A lot of ppl are saying bowl or bust. Do you actually see any possible path towards that.

I think that's a really good question and one I pondered when seeing posts suggesting bowl or bust. I just don't think we're that close to 6 or more wins. It seems to me that Dino has lost his way with this program. I'm not saying that he can't get things back, but most coaches don't after things get away from them. I can't tell you how badly I want to be wrong, but I'm usually not (especially when I've been drinking).

 

[RandomGuy]

Addazio is an exceptional OLine coach. I dont really think that Dino is a good position coach. Dinos gift is his personality. He needs to surround himself with strong coaches. I think White is going to end up being a great hire. Not sure about our OC, WR or Oline coaches. The problems on offense are deeper than just talent.

Agreed, although Dino is not a positional coach. Addazio, is indeed, an exceptional oline coach. One of the best. His pro sets, had the NFL looking to his guys for proper developement. Addazio delegated to his positional coaches, but his Oline signature undoubtedly remained.

Addazio comes off like a douche. Dino, and some on his staff are real human beings. White and the D staff is bringing it. Something is off with the offense, and it needs to be fixed.

 

[SUbear]

Uh, no they didn’t

How many programs changed both coordinators, changed the defense, and had over half the active roster first and second year players?

Do you think that just maybe this disruption might impact a team like that, in particular one that relies on coaching and training up three star recruits, maybe more than others

All COVID impacts are not equal, it’s not a hard concept if you know what’s going on

This is Babers fifth year not his first, all players are now his. If he had all these inexperienced players that is on him and no one else, which means his recruiting for four years has been crap or his coaching has been less than grea or botht. You make all kinds of excuses for in the end what is doing a terrible job.
By your account he had nobody but frosh, well why was that? He did not have more opt outs than many other teams and less than some.
I do not give him a pass for his bad performance with this team. Every facet is his responsibility, inclubing lack of depth.

 

[nzm136]

Like I said, many know me here in the real world and know what I do for a living and what I own professionally. I am good with it and this will be my last post on the topic. I am certainly not anonymous. I have done OK.

I’m fairly confident that your name isn’t IthacaBarrel, which means your posts aren’t anon. Those kids on National TV don’t have your luxury, and if vague references to being successful because “you own multiple businesses” are an attempt to impress me, you failed. Internet resumes and low standards don’t earn respect. Quality of arguments earn respect, and you’ve yet to voice support for your position that it’s a good idea to let 18 year old kids make bold and controversial political statements that could very well stick with them for the rest of their lives.

 

[nzm136]

2017	YPP	YPP Rank out of 130
Sterlin Gilbert, USF	6.15	#35
Sean Lewis/Lynch, Syracuse	5.33	#95

Did ya work for you. If you want to split it, you can look up what the defenses each team faced that year looked like so we can factor it in, you know for efficiencies sake.

Yeah, that is way more meaningful. Points are far more relevant, but yards are probably a decent proxy.

See the power of relevant numbers?

 

[nzm136]

TheCusian coming in hot from the top rope!!

To be clear, my position was that pace adjusted stats are necessary when comparing fast pace offenses with non-fast pace offenses.

He then threw a fit and eventually provided pace-adjusted stats, thereby adding value to the conversation.

Calling it coming off the top rope seems a little dramatic, no?

 

[nzm136]

now you’re comparing your reasoning ability to that of a Supreme Court justice

unreal

No, I’m comparing my level of respect for someone with the extent that I agree with them.

It shocks me that you missed that point, as it shouldn’t be hard to grasp and I was very explicit when making it.

 

[nzm136]

Every time you explain non-pace adjusted stats to me it cracks me up. I've never once said that they were better. I've pushed back on the notion that they are 100% meaningless. I think non-pace-adjusted stats are ill-equipped to measure efficiency, but that there's still a correlation.

The math I disagree with is "slamming posters for using the wrong stats + never doing your own work" - it leads me to think your opinion is not worth reading because you don't really know what you're talking about outside of a basic math concept that you keep explaining to people who already understand it.

Why would my feelings be hurt lol.

To other people reading this.. The truth is that advanced stats and pace-adjusted stats are harder to find generally. The ones that are readily available are not all in one place or easily digestible. Sometimes it can be easier to lean into what you can find quickly - especially if you're on your lunch break and pecking at your phone.

This post is a microcosm of why I don’t think you understand basic concepts.

There was no work to do. A poster posted stats that weren’t comparable, and I pointed it out. I wasn’t taking a position about how good our DC is. Well supported or not, the guy’s conclusion could have been right. I don’t know, and I don’t take speculative positions.

Since I wasn’t taking a position on who the better OC was, there were no stats to pull. My only position was the use of numbers (that you routinely abuse). That argument (should be) obvious on its face, and it has been demonstrated countless times, both inside and outside of this forum.

If you want me to jog your memory about a specific instance, I’d be happy to do it. Remember that discussion that we had about offenses where you held firm about DB’s early offenses being significantly better than SS’ only to realize that, after pace adjusting, SS’ offenses were slightly better? If you can’t remember when it happened, it was roughly around the time that you started going on your crusade about strength of schedules (presumably to get around the flip in numbers).

Pace adjusting matters, and it matters a lot when you compare fast pace offenses with traditional offenses and/or slow offenses (see the above paragraph).

 

[nzm136]

Embrace the meathead dazzler.
Actually he would have done very well at SU.

I’d be OK with Addazio. I don’t think he’d win an Orange Bowl, but I do think he’d keep the team consistently decent, and I have to think he’d out perform what he did at BC.

I get that they’re Catholic and can sell being close to Boston, but we have a Dome. I have to think that a good OL + a indoor field would translate to good QB recruits.

 

[nzm136]

Addazio is an exceptional OLine coach. I dont really think that Dino is a good position coach. Dinos gift is his personality. He needs to surround himself with strong coaches. I think White is going to end up being a great hire. Not sure about our OC, WR or Oline coaches. The problems on offense are deeper than just talent.

The problem is that we have a very finite budget. If we were a big school, or if this was basketball, where winning = an avalanche of cash (relative to our competition), then we could justify funding world class position coaches at every position. But this is football, and we aren’t a factory. We have our average budget, and we can stretch it in some areas, take gambles in others, and have retreads in the rest. That’s what makes me nervous about DB. I think he’d kill it at the Texas A&Ms of the world, where you can be a classic CEO and manage an image and make high-level decisions. Unfortunately, I think SU FB is more of a startup-like job, where you have to be a Jack of all trades.

 

[kcsu]

The problem is that we have a very finite budget. If we were a big school, or if this was basketball, where winning = an avalanche of cash (relative to our competition), then we could justify funding world class position coaches at every position. But this is football, and we aren’t a factory. We have our average budget, and we can stretch it in some areas, take gambles in others, and have retreads in the rest. That’s what makes me nervous about DB. I think he’d kill it at the Texas A&Ms of the world, where you can be a classic CEO and manage an image and make high-level decisions. Unfortunately, I think SU FB is more of a startup-like job, where you have to be a Jack of all trades.

Im sure that our budget is more than App State, Coastal Carolina, NDSU, all Mac and AAC schools and on par with Duke, BC, Wake and many others.
Picking the father in law to replace Shane Lewis as QB coach didnt work out. The jury is out on Cav and Gilbert who im sure are both paid more than any of the OCs or Oline coaches in the AAC Mac Sunbelt FCS...
Money paid doesnt equate to talent. Just look at Dino.
We need better coaches and we have plenty of money to hire them.

 

[orlandoorange]

Fun thread. So many posts saying that we can't win here or it's super hard to do so, while at the same time saying that GROB and SS were horrible coaches.

Which is it? The place or the bad hiring decisions?

HHCDM won, so it must not be the place.

It seems like the problem is that we can't win when we hire bad coaches.

 

[nzm136]

You really think because a black athlete put Equality on the back of their Jersey they are going to have an issue finding a job after college lol... You sir, are out of touch.

I personally support freedom and equality, and I think that they're both ideals that the overwhelming majority of Americans strive to uphold, or at least desire to see in our society.

However, I also think that the words written on the player's jerseys carry significance in the present context beyond the literal meaning of the words themselves, and our nation is deeply divided in how it interprets those words and ideas.

Half of America voted for the other guy in the last election. (I mean "other guy" broadly as in, regardless of whether you supported Trump or Biden, roughly half of America disagreed with you.) I know and will admit that racial relations aren't the same as presidential elections. However, I believe that there is a high overlap between one's political views and one's views on racial relations, and the recent election gives a very quantitative view on how people really feel (reduced polling bias). There isn't perfect overlap, sure, but I think that there's enough of an overlap to use the last election as a proxy that shows a deeply divided country that's roughly evenly split. Feel free to use the reaction to that kid from Chicago who shot 2 people in Kenosha if you want a more direct example of a divided country. Many see him as a hero, and many others see him as a murder in the 1st degree.

I also think that in addition to being deeply divided, a large number of people are deeply and irrational passionate about politics and racial relations. I've heard politicians from Mississippi and Texas discuss leaving the United States due to unfavorable (for them) election results. (Nothing will come of the discussions, nor should it, but the mere fact that they're happening is astounding to me.) Sure, those statements were only made by 2 people that I'm aware of, but they were both elected officials and therefore suggest strong passions of a larger group, which is evidenced by the countless protests and riots that have dotted the country over

Furthermore, I think that corporate America exposes all in it to people of all political beliefs.

 

[nzm136]

Im sure that our budget is more than App State, Coastal Carolina, NDSU, all Mac and AAC schools and on par with Duke, BC, Wake and many others.
Picking the father in law to replace Shane Lewis as QB coach didnt work out. The jury is out on Cav and Gilbert who im sure are both paid more than any of the OCs or Oline coaches in the AAC Mac Sunbelt FCS...
Money paid doesnt equate to talent. Just look at Dino.
We need better coaches and we have plenty of money to hire them.

Money paid equates to the probability of better talent, and not every good bet works out (see card counting). I can't say that he made the right or wrong bets - I don’t think any here can with any high degree of certainty - but I can say that the limited resources means he's playing with far from certain odds, so winning everywhere with every hire isn't realistic.

I don’t know if the above defends him or not, but I am confident that it’s true. Whether or not he pans out here doesn’t mean that he’s a bad coach. He has weakness (I agree with many of your posts and sentiments), but he has also shown that he can do really good things in the right situation (whether or not we’re the right situation remains to be seen). I think I’m sold on him as a CEO, but I don’t think I’m sold on him as a do it all guy (which I think is your point, albeit with different words).

 

[kcsu]

Money paid equates to the probability of better talent, and not every good bet works out (see card counting). I can't say that he made the right or wrong bets - only that he's playing with far from certain odds, so winning eveywere with every hire isn't realistic.

Agreed. My point isnt about who is hired it is simply that SU has the funding to hire good coaches. The issue is does Dino have the ability to identify coaching talent. Its not a money issue.

 

[nzm136]

Agreed. My point isnt about who is hired it is simply that SU has the funding to hire good coaches. The issue is does Dino have the ability to identify coaching talent. Its not a money issue.

Let me push back - I don’t know that we do have that cash. Sure, we can hire a handful of sure things, but they aren’t cheap, and we have a limited assistant coach budget. Is it on par with BC, WF, etc.? Yes - it’s actually probably better. But we’re also bidding against SEC schools, Clemson, B1G schools, etc. for those coaches, and we can only responsibly bid up until the marginal benefit matches the marginal cost.

MAC schools have some great assistant coaches (roll the dice long enough, and you’ll get lucky numbers), but there aren’t great staffs top to bottom (it’s hard to roll lucky numbers a bunch of times in a row), and if/when there are, they don’t last long. It’s a competitive market.

EDIT: I wish we could hire guys like Sark to be offensive advisors, like Alabama did a couple of years ago, but we can’t. (I know you’re not advocating for Alabama’s assistant staff budget or people, so I’m definitely exaggerating with that example, but I think the exaggeration better illustrates my point.)

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Depends on any changes with the ACC schedule. We probably should beat Ohio and Albany, while losing to Clemson (2-1). Our other 4 P5 home games we should go at least 2-2 but realistically could go 3-1 (4-3 or 5-2). Our 4 P5 road games realistically we are likely to go 1-3 (5-6 or 6-5). Then we have Liberty and who knows which players stay or go from their roster, so it could go either way (5-7 or 6-6 or 7-5).

So IMO we should win 5 to 7 games next season. I don’t think 8-4 or better is realistic given our starting point. 4-8 or worse there better be factors like major injuries, no fans in the stands, etc.

That being said if we have a functional O and seem to be heading in the right direction, I would be ok bringing Dino back at 3-9. However if the O is still a cluster F, we go 5-7, and recruiting is not looking good, Dino better be willing to change his system completely. Otherwise he needs to go.