Alec Baldwin shooting accident

[Toga]

The argument that I am making is simple and reasonable; any person, including an actor or actress, should check a firearm over to ensure that there are no live rounds present before pointing it at another person and pulling the trigger. This is a reasonable argument.

Blanks and live ammunition are easy to discern from one another because of the bullet point. I do not think that Baldwin or anyone else did this on purpose. I do however think it was grossly negligent on Baldwin’s behalf. I say it now, just as I would if the victim was a family member of mine. Because I am consistent.

Seems to me that is why one has an armorer. An untrained person checking a gun in and of itself seems dangerous.

 

[David332]

Seems to me that is why one has an armorer. An untrained person checking a gun in and of itself seems dangerous.

No one who is untrained with firearms should be handling them, period. Full stop.

 

[Mareiniss]

It sounds like this was a low budget film that cut a lot of corners and was doomed from the start. Whoever is in charge is going to be paying off lawsuits for many years.

I'm not a personal injury attorney, but my understanding is that, if the film company bought workers' compensation insurance, as required, the cinematographer and director might be limited to that form of remedy, rather than a lawsuit. That is because employees cannot sue their employer or fellow employees for negligence. Their only remedy is a workers' comp claim.

On the other hand, if an injured party was retained as an independent contractor, rather than as an employee, s/he might be entitled to bring a personal injury or wrongful death lawsuit based on negligence.

 

[Briancuse]

I'm not a personal injury attorney, but my understanding is that, if the film company bought workers' compensation insurance, as required, the cinematographer and director might be limited to that form of remedy, rather than a lawsuit. That is because employees cannot sue their employer or fellow employees for negligence. Their only remedy is a workers' comp claim.

On the other hand, if an injured party was retained as an independent contractor, rather than as an employee, s/he might be entitled to bring a personal injury or wrongful death lawsuit based on negligence.

You are probably right. I'd imagine Baldwin takes care of the families also.

 

[RF2044]

“Unfathomable dominoes”, as in someone would have to want to kill someone and then just slip in live rounds? It’s not exactly as if an Illuminati conspiracy would need to take place. A director for example could easily do it. Strict liability crimes exist for a reason.

"Unfathomable dominoes," as in it would require a series of coincidental outcomes / confluence of circumstances to pull off that even complete suspension of disbelief wouldn't allow for.

We're not talking about negligence -- above, you suggested that it was a perfect murder scenario. But it might make a good plot for a TV show.

 

[David332]

"Unfathomable dominoes," as in it would require a series of coincidental outcomes / confluence of circumstances to pull off that even complete suspension of disbelief wouldn't allow for.

We're not talking about negligence -- above, you suggested that it was a perfect murder scenario. But it might make a good plot for a TV show.

You are misreading what I was saying. My point was if no one is criminally responsible for this, an accident, then it could be repeated in the future intentionally.

 

[RF2044]

You are misreading what I was saying. My point was if no one is criminally responsible for this, an accident, then it could be repeated in the future intentionally.

No, it couldn't. I'm not misreading anything.

There are checks and balances built into the process. First, a would be murderer would have to arrange for a movie to be filmed in that state, and get the person that they want to kill to agree to be on set there.
If the director wanted someone dead, how would they get the gun loaded? They'd have to enlist the armorer, because that group is in charge of pre-check prior to weapon use on film -- the mastermind couldn't just plant the live rounds themselves. Even if the master / head armorer wanted someone dead and loaded live rounds, there's a secondary armorer who double checks that the rounds aren't live. And even if they got the gun actually loaded with a live round, there's no guarantee that an unwitting actor would actually hit the intended target, based upon how the scene is being filmed.

So, barring some vast conspiracy to commit the perfect murder, that would rely upon the unknowing actor doing the desired outcome and for all of the other factors involved to somehow work out favorably, it is unlikely with extreme prejudice that something like that could be pulled off with any intentionality.

Horrible tragedy, but an accident when a process goes horribly wrong.

 

[Briancuse]

You are misreading what I was saying. My point was if no one is criminally responsible for this, an accident, then it could be repeated in the future intentionally.

I think you are reading too much into.this. Sounds like this is a case of major incompetence.

 

[MSOrange]

It sounds like this was a low budget film that cut a lot of corners and was doomed from the start. Whoever is in charge is going to be paying of lawsuits for many years.

Agree. Seems like the set was a big clusterf***

 

[HOFCeluck]

I always default to incompetence over malice.

 

[Briancuse]

I always default to incompetence over malice.

We noticed. Just messing with you.

 

[Day2]

Seems to me that is why one has an armorer. An untrained person checking a gun in and of itself seems dangerous.

Might be against union regulations as well. An actor isn’t even allowed to move a light on set.

 

[Mareiniss]

Seems to me that is why one has an armorer. An untrained person checking a gun in and of itself seems dangerous.

Here's two recent quotes from Rust's armorer, 24 year old Hanna Gutierrez Reed (from one month ago):

"I think loading blanks was like the scariest thing to me because I was like, 'Oh, I don't know anything about it,'"

and

"I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn't take [her previous armorer] job because I wasn't sure if I was ready ..."

Rust's 24-Year-Old Armorer Said She 'Almost Didn't Take' Previous Job: 'I Wasn't Sure If I Was Ready'

"I think loading blanks was like the scariest thing to me because I was like, 'Oh, I don't know anything about it,'" Hannah Gutierrez-Reed previously said about her first time as lead armorer

people.com

 

[upperdeck]

it didnt have live rounds(bullets) though did it? even when using blanks there are still materials in it that come out and can harm people. and you cant expect these actors to be opening up every gun on set and try to tell whats really in the chamber.. how would you even do that with some of these weapons.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

it didnt have live rounds(bullets) though did it? even when using blanks there are still materials in it that come out and can harm people. and you cant expect these actors to be opening up every gun on set and try to tell whats really in the chamber.. how would you even do that with some of these weapons.

It's possible there was one live bullet in there. The gun had been used by others a few hours prior for target practice.

 

[upperdeck]

It's possible there was one live bullet in there. The gun had been used by others a few hours prior for target practice.

if thats the case you would think on a movie set the first thing someone whose job is that, would be to unload and reload weapons so that doesnt happen.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

if thats the case you would think on a movie set the first thing someone whose job is that, would be to unload and reload weapons so that doesnt happen.

They actually had 2 people employed on the set to do just that. We joke about nepotism on the SU hoops team, but this movie set had a 24-year old armorer who is the daughter of a much more seasoned armorer with a long history in the industry. She clearly needed more time in the job before getting the lead role.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Here's two recent quotes from Rust's armorer, 24 year old Hanna Gutierrez Reed (from one month ago):

"I think loading blanks was like the scariest thing to me because I was like, 'Oh, I don't know anything about it,'"

and

"I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn't take [her previous armorer] job because I wasn't sure if I was ready ..."

Rust's 24-Year-Old Armorer Said She 'Almost Didn't Take' Previous Job: 'I Wasn't Sure If I Was Ready'

"I think loading blanks was like the scariest thing to me because I was like, 'Oh, I don't know anything about it,'" Hannah Gutierrez-Reed previously said about her first time as lead armorer

people.com

I like the idea that her being 24 is some form of indictment in and of itself. How old are the people we send off to war to fight for us ? Oh yeah .. not old.. do they receive guns ? Oh yeah they do

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I like the idea that her being 24 is some form of indictment in and of itself. How old are the people we send off to war to fight for us ? Oh yeah .. not old.. do they receive guns ? Oh yeah they do

And yet they have to go through extensive weapons training before they do. What did her 'education' consist of?

 

[STEVEHOLT]

CNN had a dude on from the industry who is an expert in this .. he of course stated that only a real gun is realistic enough for movies .. wonder if the fact his job goes away if they stopped using real guns had any influence on his answer ?

 

[STEVEHOLT]

And yet they have to go through extensive weapons training before they do. What did her 'education' consist of?

What does being 24 have to do with it ? Nothing .. age isn’t a factor here even a little bit.

 

[orange79]

If you all want to talk political sh1tt, you all know where to do it.

And that place is NOT HERE.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

What does being 24 have to do with it ? Nothing .. age isn’t a factor here even a little bit.

Her lack of experience has everything to do with this. She wasn't qualified for the job, and that's exactly why she was hired - the producers wanted someone cheap, and that's what they got. I just read a story about another guy who turned down the job because the producers were rushing production, not allowing him to hire on the staff he felt he needed for the task, and not allowing the team sufficient time to prepare for the actual shoot. He was going to get 2 weeks to prep all weapons and other props when he said the job would take 2 months to adequately prepare for. Unfortunately the 24 year old didn't know that because she didn't have sufficient experience being the main person.

 

[justgold315]

New update is crew were shooting real bullets from the gun earlier that day

 

[Mareiniss]

Agree. Seems like the set was a big clusterf***