Alec Baldwin shooting accident

[STEVEHOLT]

Her lack of experience has everything to do with this. She wasn't qualified for the job, and that's exactly why she was hired - the producers wanted someone cheap, and that's what they got. I just read a story about another guy who turned down the job because the producers were rushing production, not allowing him to hire on the staff he felt he needed for the task, and not allowing the team sufficient time to prepare for the actual shoot. He was going to get 2 weeks to prep all weapons and other props when he said the job would take 2 months to adequately prepare for. Unfortunately the 24 year old didn't know that because she didn't have sufficient experience being the main person.

So if she had been sufficiently trained, like our young soldiers, then being 24 wouldn’t matter ?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So if she had been sufficiently trained, like our young soldiers, then being 24 wouldn’t matter ?

Actually, I think it would. The folks in the military they trust to issue and manage the weapons are typically older than 24 as well. This isn't a case where one gun = one person like the military. You need multiple safety checks when guns are moving around like this on a set. Experience is much more valuable in those situations.

 

[dasher]

He clearly isn’t though; he accidentally shot two people, killing one. He’s obviously not that careful. If he was as careful as his colleagues assert than he would have checked the gun before pointing it towards someone and pulling the trigger. In NYS he would be having significant legal issues right now. Personally, though I’m not an actor, I would never blindly trust ANYONE in this situation. If I was an actor, I would have checked the gun first.

We really should wait till we know all of the facts.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He was handed the gun and was told it was safe. This wasn't his fault.

Yes, it was. It’s the shooters job (always) to inspect the gun. Never take anyone’s word that a gun is safe or unloaded. Always assume it is loaded and ready to fire. (Not saying he will go to jail, but it is at least criminally negligent homicide (or the states equivalent).

 

[CuseTroop]

Actually, I think it would. The folks in the military they trust to issue and manage the weapons are typically older than 24 as well. This isn't a case where one gun = one person like the military. You need multiple safety checks when guns are moving around like this on a set. Experience is much more valuable in those situations.

Not arguing, just tossing in my observations. I don't think any of my unit armorers were over the age of 24. Maybe 1, but he woulda been 25ish. Typically, at least back then, unit armorers were either E4 or E5s. But that's just maintaining the arms room and issuing weapons to the unit. You'd go to a secondary location for ammo, which was managed by at least a E6 I believe.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Not arguing, just tossing in my observations. I don't think any of my unit armorers were over the age of 24. Maybe 1, but he woulda been 25ish. Typically, at least back then, unit armorers were either E4 or E5s. But that's just maintaining the arms room and issuing weapons to the unit. You'd go to a secondary location for ammo, which was managed by at least a E6 I believe.

And who would be managing range operations?

I can't really figure out what an equivalent job would be here.

 

[CuseTroop]

And who would be managing range operations?

I can't really figure out what an equivalent job would be here.

You'd have a senior NCO running range operations. Prolly an LT running around too. Range operations is closer to what we're talking about here.

 

[CuseTroop]

You'd have a senior NCO running range operations. Prolly an LT running around too. Range operations is closer to what we're talking about here.

Heh, I'll try find the video of when they let a put a young cusetroop in charge of the explosive simulators. I coulda lost a hand or two, for sure started a fire or two. Somedays I really miss the Army lol

 

[David332]

If you all want to talk political sh1tt, you all know where to do it.

And that place is NOT HERE.

I sincerely apologize if anything I wrote initiated or contributed to such discourse as that wasn’t my intention. This group is important to me and I don’t ever wish to step on anyone’s toes.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Interesting they are charging Baldwin with involuntary manslaughter.

 

[orange79]

Interesting they are charging Baldwin with involuntary manslaughter.

Yeah, based on what we "know" now, it will be hard to make this stick, I would think.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Yeah, based on what we "know" now, it will be hard to make this stick, I would think.

When I read the story, first thing I did was check to see the Prosecutors party affiliation. Is New Mexico moving to red? Prosecutor is a dem.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Yeah, based on what we "know" now, it will be hard to make this stick, I would think.

Here is the definition from NM statutes:
B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

I think it can stick. He pointed a gun at someone and fired, without first checking to see if the gun was loaded.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think that was a Columbo episode

"Columbo" Make Me a Perfect Murder (TV Episode 1978) ⭐ 7.5 | Crime, Drama, Mystery

1h 40m | TV-PG

m.imdb.com

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Here is the definition from NM statutes:
B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

I think it can stick. He pointed a gun at someone and fired, without first checking to see if the gun was loaded.

He employed someone specifically to do that. That’s the defense, right?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He employed someone specifically to do that. That’s the defense, right?

I think any (legitimate) gun expert would say no, but I really don’t do guns. (I did grow up in a hunting household and hunted for a while. I was always taught to know what’s in your chamber.) The person who fires is responsible to know what’s in the chamber.
Just my $.02.
I think the fact that he lied about not pulling the trigger may hurt him. Could be seen as a guilty mind.
FBI lab said that gun could not have fired accidentally.
We’ll see.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think any (legitimate) gun expert would say no, but I really don’t do guns. (I did grow up in a hunting household and hunted for a while. I was always taught to know what’s in your chamber.) The person who fires is responsible to know what’s in the chamber.
Just my $.02.
I think the fact that he lied about not pulling the trigger may hurt him. FBI lab said that gun could not have fired accidentally.
We’ll see.

Thought I read they used blanks and real. Would he be expected to discern the difference in a practice session?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Thought I read they used blanks and real. Would he be expected to discern the difference in a practice session?

He didn’t try. Plus, blanks contain no projectile. They are “blank”.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He didn’t try. Plus, blanks contain no projectile. They are “blank”.

But the rounds would look the same to an untrained eye

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

But the rounds would look the same to an untrained eye

Not the end, where there is no projectile. Why are you defending the guy? He’s not untrained. He’s been in movies sets multiple times. He improperly used a gun and killed someone.
His negligence is not checking the the chamber. He claimed he was told it was a cold gun, meaning empty. Had he checked, he would have known it was hot.

 

[Forloveoforange]

Has it been stated that he was holding the hammer? If you pull back the hammer and you let it slip off your thumb, before engaging the cocked position, it will let the firing pin hit the ammo... (maybe I shouldn't say firing pin, I suppose the hammer takes away the firing pin). You definitely don't want to be doing this in an unsafe direction, with a loaded gun, which tragically was the case. Of course the whole movie thing goes against the "don't point a gun in an unsafe direction, not even a toy gun, for that matter".

Stated earlier that the gun was used for target practice. That is pretty scary, and surprising that the blame isn't going in that direction, also.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Not the end, where there is no projectile. Why are you defending the guy? He’s not untrained. He’s been in movies sets multiple times. He improperly used a gun and killed someone.
His negligence is not checking the the chamber. He claimed he was told it was a cold gun, meaning empty. Had he checked, he would have known it was hot.

Just trying to have a discussion. Why you always have to be the miserable wanker?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Just trying to have a discussion. Why you always have to be the miserable wanker?

Why are you obstinate and obtuse. You brought up the same inane issue over and over again. Read the law (I posted it). Read the available reports. I have. Baldwin lied. He said he didn’t pull the trigger. Why would he lie about that? Because he knew he never checked the gun. He knew he pointed a gun at a man, pulled the trigger, and a man died. He killed a man due to his negligence, arrogance and hubris.

You weren’t defending his actions, just trying to excuse the death of this man as though nothing Baldwin could have done would have prevented the death. How about not firing a gun at the guy. It’s that simple. Don’t point a gun and pull the trigger and not expect someone to get shot.



A man is dead, solely to to Baldwin’s conduct. None of that is disputable. Nothing that did or did not happen before he pulled the trigger matters, except as to his state of mind, which impact the level of criminal conduct. If he doesn’t pull the trigger, the man’s not dead. Therefore, he is criminally culpable.

The other thing is that if he was not part of elite, he would have been arrested and charged long ago. This new charge would be the plea bargain offer. (Based on reading the applicable statute, this charge appears appropriate.)

 

[bozophobe]

The person who died was a woman. The second person hit, who was injured, is a male. And the FBI performed more than one test; one of which resulted in the gun going off in the cocked position without pulling the trigger.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Why are you obstinate and obtuse. You brought up the same inane issue over and over again. Read the law (I posted it). Read the available reports. I have. Baldwin lied. He said he didn’t pull the trigger. Why would he lie about that? Because he knew he never checked the gun. He knew he pointed a gun at a man, pulled the trigger, and a man died. He killed a man due to his negligence, arrogance and hubris.

You weren’t defending his actions, just trying to excuse the death of this man as though nothing Baldwin could have done would have prevented the death. How about not firing a gun at the guy. It’s that simple. Don’t point a gun and pull the trigger and not expect someone to get shot.



A man is dead, solely to to Baldwin’s conduct. None of that is disputable. Nothing that did or did not happen before he pulled the trigger matters, except as to his state of mind, which impact the level of criminal conduct. If he doesn’t pull the trigger, the man’s not dead. Therefore, he is criminally culpable.

The other thing is that if he was not part of elite, he would have been arrested and charged long ago. This new charge would be the plea bargain offer. (Based on reading the applicable statute, this charge appears appropriate.)

You have the most important fact wrong so forgive me if I don’t believe for a second that you are in possession of any other facts about this case at all. Go back to your right wing sources that spoon feed you anti-Baldwin talking points. I’m not defending him, just trying to understand the actual facts of this case.