an open and honest discussion about SU's offense

[Jasoncuse]

A number of factors:
- Lack of scoring talent
- Lack of consistent shooters
- No interior threat
- Ball handling and point guard woes
- Lack of depth may inhibit our ability to try running or pressing, though I'm dubious about JB actually pushing the tempo more at this stage

Then you throw in an absolute slog of a half court offense with no creativity or movement. We run the same ball screens over and over while the guards pound the ball into the hardwood. With guys like Chukwu, Roberson, Coleman and so on setting those screens, it's pointless. Without an offensive threat setting the screen, defenses don't have to worry and can help on the ball handler.

And we run so much iso with players that aren't necessarily adept at beating their man, finishing or finding an open shooter. Mostly using the dribble to get good shots has been rough and we've been far too reliant on this plan.

There were a handful of times last year (FSU game, mostly, I believe), where we actually had some ball and player movement in the half court and it was successful, but more often than not, JB chose to grind down the shot clock and hope Tyus/Frank/OB could find a bucket. That cannot continue if this program is to ever elevate above the middle of the ACC.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think it’s outdated. A lot of teams are following the NBA and moving to a systems based on ball movement where we tend to leave the ball in one or two players hands to create for themselves or others as the NBA did previously.

I thought the best offense we ever had was in 09-10 and that was for the most part because we lacked a lot of Isolation players we relied on ball movement and movement off the ball.

We also lack skilled players at the 4 and 5 most years so that sets what we can do back a bit as JB tends to prioritize rim protection over offensive skill at those positions during recruiting.

Don't forget, we also had 2 centers who could clear the defensive boards and start the fast break, AND both were also threats in the low post, AND they could both play together in a high-low offense.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Don't forget, we also had 2 centers who could clear the defensive boards and start the fast break, AND both were also threats in the low post, AND they could both play together in a high-low offense.

Agree with that, but Nova didn't play out of the post much. They are successful because they have skilled players at every position. We have guys like Roberson/Chukwu/Moyer playing those positions over the past couple years.

 

[cuse10]

Simply have to start pushing the ball more and shore up what depth you have to substitute in the event guys get tired. Helps a lot if Tyus comes back (unlikely) and Carey is given the keys to the car in terms of pushing the pace when he's in.

 

[Waltdods]

Haha I feel like this is a question you would ask of a 5 year old team. "Alright Billy, if we pass you the ball, do you think you can catch it?"

(Your question is perfectly valid, btw)

It's funny - the team went through several years in the middle '00s when any pass to an interior player was an absolute adventure. I think Terrence Roberts slathered his hands in motor oil before every game and gave Daryl Watkins whatever was left over. It was a huge problem for those teams. Then you had a run of big guys with just great hands - Arinze, Rick Jackson, sophomore Fab, upperclass Rak. I think a healthy Sidibe ends up more in the tradition of Arinze et al, and that will make a huge difference if he can get out there.

 

[AustinCuse]

A new situational wrinkle could be 5 players who can shoot and handle the ball on the court at once - Frank, Elijah, Oshae, Braswell and Marek. Fast, great ball movement and good shooters. Of course we have to see Elijah and Braswell on the court to see if this combination would work, but this is what I am excited about.

 

[Shark58]

A new situational wrinkle could be 5 players who can shoot and handle the ball on the court at once - Frank, Elijah, Oshae, Braswell and Marek. Fast, great ball movement and good shooters. Of course we have to see Elijah and Braswell on the court to see if this combination would work, but this is what I am excited about.

I feel ya, but a more likely lineup with 5 scorers is Frank, Carey, Hughes, Oshea and Marek in the middle.

 

[two3zone]

A new situational wrinkle could be 5 players who can shoot and handle the ball on the court at once - Frank, Elijah, Oshae, Braswell and Marek. Fast, great ball movement and good shooters. Of course we have to see Elijah and Braswell on the court to see if this combination would work, but this is what I am excited about.

I feel ya, but a more likely lineup with 5 scorers is Frank, Carey, Hughes, Oshea and Marek in the middle.

And we’d still run iso plays or Frank will be instructed to dribble until there are 4 seconds on the shot clock before he makes a move.

 

[AustinCuse]

I feel ya, but a more likely lineup with 5 scorers is Frank, Carey, Hughes, Oshea and Marek in the middle.

I agree that Carey may be a better choice for scoring, but Braswell ensures that we don't give up too much on defense in terms of height.

One reason we have slowed the ball down recently is because of the thin bench. Players wouldn't be able to play 35+ minutes if the game was fast paced. With a healthier bench with more personnel, we would not need to hold the ball before starting the offensive play.

 

[Shark58]

And we’d still run iso plays or Frank will be instructed to dribble until there are 4 seconds on the shot clock before he makes a move.

I don't think he's being instructed to do that. maybe if we had a set play to run...

 

[two3zone]

I don't think he's being instructed to do that. maybe if we had a set play to run...

I’m not sure, it seems that way though. I can’t think of one reason why a guy would stand 6 feet from the top of the key and just dribble while nobody move down around. That was our second most used play outside of give Tyus the ball and hope for the best.

 

[Shark58]

I’m not sure, it seems that way though. I can’t think of one reason why a guy would stand 6 feet from the top of the key and just dribble while nobody move down around. That was our second most used play outside of give Tyus the ball and hope for the best.

start a thread called "an open and honest discussion about Frank's offensive skill set" and we'll discuss there

 

[SoBeCuse]

Guard ballhandling has been a problem and/or not having enough forwards who can handle as well as pass.

If you’re around 50 and worse playing at our tempo/pace then that is bad offense.

If we get into the Tourney it seems it is more about hoping teams run out of time to figure out the zone. Or praying they are inept enough to handle it. Offensively we’re basically shut down but squeak by because of the Zone.

 

[SoBeCuse]

1. You cannot be efficient...no matter what the numbers say when the majority of your offense is high screen with a non threatening screener/roller (Pascal). Why not run it with a wing that will give us better matchups for both the attacker and roller and clear the big to the opposite block or short corner for a dump down or lob or rebound. Angle in equals angle out on rebounds. Lots of put backs if we run it with a wing to high ball screen.
2. The only player on the team that sets the high roll and actually rolls the correct way is Marek. Basic basketball that if we can’t teach...major issue.
3. Lack of more than one outside threat. Gotta have at least 2 or 3 players way above 30 percent beyond the arc.
4. Run more than one inbounds play...we ran two all year last year.
5. Fast break offense with a second option to a low post trailer...we have lacked any centers or PF that can post on a fast break after the first option breaks down.
6. At least three offensive plays to get an open cutter or shooter. We had one with Andrew White we ran every first possession. Gmac and Andy had the handoff screen for a jumper. Etc.
7. A high low game. Please let us get Stewart for this.

Yes, James Arthur knows way more about basketball than me. But in my opinion, these points would be my focus for teams the last 8 years and this coming year.

Your #6. South Carolina blew that play up to White from the opening tip and we were done...game over. Miami did it in the ACCT. Gotta have some more secondary action and/or plan Bs.

 

[scottynguyen]

Another small point on our pick and roll offense last season - as the season progressed Chukwu rarely, if ever, made contact on his screens. It was so blatant that I think the coaches instructed him on this to avoid picking up cheap illegal screen calls.

 

[SWC75]

If your players aren't moving on offense, the defensive players don't have to move either and nobody zigs when they should have zagged, which is what opens things up.

if you start your drive from 25 feet away, the defense has plenty of time to react to it.

An intermediate passer would solve a lot of problems. A guy at the top of the key vs. a zone or to the side vs. a Man for man gives a driving player an outlet and gives the passer plenty of places to get the ball to someone who can score.

A post up player is like a squid's beak, chewing up the team inside while the tentacles tie him up on the outside.

if you beat the other team down the court, they become extras in your highlight film.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

We’ve all seen high school teams with more/better ball movement schemes than we have had in recent years. Passing and moving don’t require 5-star athletes. Sanctions and early defections aren’t the cause. Seems like a choice.

 

[Shaggy1]

Your #6. South Carolina blew that play up to White from the opening tip and we were done...game over. Miami did it in the ACCT. Gotta have some more secondary action and/or plan Bs.

Oh I agree. I was just giving an example of us actually running some. Last year we didn’t really have any quick hitter plays we ran.

 

[Shark58]

same as it ever was

 

[kirbivore]

more iso ball garbage with a deeper bench

 

[albanycuse]

Simply have to start pushing the ball more and shore up what depth you have to substitute in the event guys get tired. Helps a lot if Tyus comes back (unlikely) and Carey is given the keys to the car in terms of pushing the pace when he's in.

Battle coming back?? Lmaooooooo. He’s the most overrated player in the last 20 years. He celebrated after he had a drive and foul , made the basket, missed the free throw. This was with around a minute left and down ten. What was he happy about? He played poorly all game.

 

[Brooky03]

We can't score in the post. Our shooting sucked against UConn because they had no reason not to get in our face. There's no scoring threat at the rim.

The last center who could catch a basketball and not immediately die was senior Rak. We don't even have a forward who can go to work in the paint. It's sad.

 

[Shark58]

 

[SoBeCuse]

Not enough speed on the perimeter driving and shaky ballhandling. If you are going to play this way you gotta get by your man consistently...this was a Conf USA team and they looked more atheltic except for Battle.

Centers are a disaster.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Simply have to start pushing the ball more and shore up what depth you have to substitute in the event guys get tired. Helps a lot if Tyus comes back (unlikely) and Carey is given the keys to the car in terms of pushing the pace when he's in.

I guess but Old Dominion was faster up and down the court. It was noticeable.