Class of 2016 Andrew White iii... the third

[Briancuse]

Maybe someone in the White camp (daddy?) has delusions of AW playing guard here? That could be a sticking point. It would make a helluva lot more sense than bs like JB is in Rio. That is laughable and anyone who says that has zero credibility.

Like most people, I'm confident AW winds up at SU.

He can play both, I don't see what the problem is, we have some really versatile players, we can go a number of different ways.

 

[RoatanCuse]

This one isn't actually a Yogi-ism. He said "it's not over til it's over."
The Fat Lady Sings thing was from someone else, and then re-used during a few different sports broadcasts, and then i thought it was made nationally famous by Dandy Don Meredith during a Monday Night Football game, but i can't be sure of that.

Thanks. I think I was too lazy to look it up. Yup, I remember Don Meredith singing that at the end of some games...with Howard Cosell. Good broadcasting crew.

 

[Toga]

Really think Frank Howard is our next great guard. Great size, uncanny vision and high level distribution skills, built well for transition, and just needs to get his shot down and consistent. This kid really is special.

If we do get White, we'll be absolutely loaded. I cannot wait to see us matchup vs. UNC, UVA and Duke.

Frank could definitely see time when we press.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Moyer is playable and will get some minutes but I know he is not as far along as people within the program would have liked by now. Expect Thompson to get more minutes at least at the beginning of the season because he is actually further along and doing better in workouts than people anticipated.

Matt Moyer looks like he did not spend nearly enough time in the weight room this past year. His shoulders are slimmer than Battle - who is a guard. Granted, he's built, but he's still a guard.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I would be surprised if Chewy is more effective than DC. This will be a learning year for Chewy. He was a non-entity for Providence and he has not played since. I expect an improved DC, and Chewy to come into his own next year.
Rico is an ideal sixth man. He can play anyplace in the frontcourt. No need for him to start especially since White, if he comes, will be senior. Expectations of Rico getting a high draft pick are not dependent on his starting. If the team does well and Rico is a key part of it, he will get all the credit he deserves.

You forget, he's had a year to practice the zone since he came over from Providence. I think he is going to be a very effective rim protector this year. He's freaking huge and was already a promising shot blocker. I think he will easily block at least 2 shots per game this year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There is absolutely nothing in this post that is accurate, IMO.

We have depth in the frontcourt--at the power positions, not at the 3. AW3 wouldn't play "some 3," he'll get the bulk of his minutes there--precisely because we don't have any other player on the current 9 man roster who is suited to play small forward.

Respectfully, I-Matt, not trying to call you out. But I don't know what people are seeing here to suggest he'll play guard.

OK, Ryan, who does White take the minutes from - Lydon, the pre-season all-conference guy, or Roberson, our best rebounder since Rick Jackson? If we get White, he has to play at least 25-30 minutes a game, because he will be our best 3 point shooter other than maybe Lydon.

So if he's going to play most of those minutes at F, who sits, our best rebounder, or our next first round pick? I mean, you have got to be kidding me. Neither Tyler is going to play fewer than 30 minutes a game, and that's what would their limit would be with your suggested rotation. If he's going to primarily play forward, then he probably isn't coming here. That's not what he wants. At least that might explain his delay in committing.

He wants the chance to play significant minutes at the 2, and to work on those skills. If he doesn't get that opportunity - where we have a clear need, by the way - then he won't come here. Do you think that Malachi Richardson would have continued to play the 3 this year? White is looking for that role - being the third guard more than being the third forward. Michigan State told him that wanted him primarily at forward and he said "no thanks".

It's just like Tyus Battle's recruitment - if we didn't offer him time to be the lead guard, like Dion did, then he wasn't coming here. He could play on the wing at Duke, but that's not what he wanted, he wanted the ball in his hands, and that's why we got him and Duke didn't.

Who is it easier to take minutes from on this team next year - a senior forward, Tyler Roberson, who could average a double double this year after averaging 9 and 8 last year and us thinking he underachieved, or Frank Howard, who shot 28% from the floor last year and averaged less than 2 points a game? And you're calling me out as delusional?

P.S. - While we're at it, just look at JB's past personnel moves in terms of moving big guys to the 2 guard position. You may think of White as another James Southerland, but even Southerland got a try-out as a 2 guard his senior year. It didn't work out, but JB has done this so many times in the past.

Kueth Duany played the 2G on our championship team. Jason Cipolla played the 2G on the '96 team that made the Finals. Raf Addison was converted to 2G his senior year. Marius Janulis is yet another. Todd Burgan got some run at the 2G his senior year on the team when Jason Hart was a freshman. I could go on and on (and already have …).

Suffice it to say that if we get Andrew White this year, he will probably play the same amount of time at 2G as Tyus Battle plays at the point. That's a natural pairing. If Gillon or Frank Howard are in the game, they are not the off-guard. Battle would be. Battle is going to have the ball in his hands, probably 15 minutes a game. Who is going to play 2 guard with him? Maybe Gillon, who has a pretty decent shot from 3, but Gillon is more of a driver, and when the 2 of them are in the game together, that's more of a running team than a half court offense team. White is the answer.

When Gillon and Battle are in the game, if you are the opponent, you make them play half-court basketball and you zone them. If you play White with those 2 guards, then you are either sacrificing more outside shooting by leaving Lydon - maybe your best player - on the bench. Or you leave out Roberson, who is by far our best rounder, but who can't play the 5.

Lydon at the 5 last year did not work against good teams. That's why we were a .500 team in the ACC last year and we on the bubble. Because we had Tyler Freaking Lydon as our best center!

 

[CuseMan4]

Matt Moyer looks like he did not spend nearly enough time in the weight room this past year. His shoulders are slimmer than Battle - who is a guard. Granted, he's built, but he's still a guard.

Correct and came into Cuse not as in shape as he should have been. He was the limit for the team as far as sprints and conditioning went.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Rico is a draft pick this year. He's already on the team. One sports magazine called him the 9th best player in college basketball the other day. He's not coming off the bench. It's beyond ridiculous to say so. Battle isn't going to be our starting PG, he's going to be the guy who shifts to PG when the starting PG goes out. Haven 't you watched JB's substitution patterns?

??? I did not even mention Battle.
Did you ever hear of Waiters? Did he start? Was he drafted higher than Rico will be? Rico will get plenty of minutes without having to start. He is versatile.

 

[Digger]

OK, Ryan, who does White take the minutes from - Lydon, the pre-season all-conference guy, or Roberson, our best rebounder since Rick Jackson? If we get White, he has to play at least 25-30 minutes a game, because he will be our best 3 point shooter other than maybe Lydon.

So if he's going to play most of those minutes at F, who sits, our best rebounder, or our next first round pick? I mean, you have got to be kidding me. Neither Tyler is going to play fewer than 30 minutes a game, and that's what would their limit would be with your suggested rotation. If he's going to primarily play forward, then he probably isn't coming here. That's not what he wants. At least that might explain his delay in committing.

He wants the chance to play significant minutes at the 2, and to work on those skills. If he doesn't get that opportunity - where we have a clear need, by the way - then he won't come here. Do you think that Malachi Richardson would have continued to play the 3 this year? White is looking for that role - being the third guard more than being the third forward. Michigan State told him that wanted him primarily at forward and he said "no thanks".

It's just like Tyus Battle's recruitment - if we didn't offer him time to be the lead guard, like Dion did, then he wasn't coming here. He could play on the wing at Duke, but that's not what he wanted, he wanted the ball in his hands, and that's why we got him and Duke didn't.

Who is it easier to take minutes from on this team next year - a senior forward, Tyler Roberson, who could average a double double this year after averaging 9 and 8 last year and us thinking he underachieved, or Frank Howard, who shot 28% from the floor last year and averaged less than 2 points a game? And you're calling me out as delusional?

P.S. - While we're at it, just look at JB's past personnel moves in terms of moving big guys to the 2 guard position. You may think of White as another James Southerland, but even Southerland got a try-out as a 2 guard his senior year. It didn't work out, but JB has done this so many times in the past.

Kueth Duany played the 2G on our championship team. Jason Cipolla played the 2G on the '96 team that made the Finals. Raf Addison was converted to 2G his senior year. Marius Janulis is yet another. Todd Burgan got some run at the 2G his senior year on the team when Jason Hart was a freshman. I could go on and on (and already have …).

Suffice it to say that if we get Andrew White this year, he will probably play the same amount of time at 2G as Tyus Battle plays at the point. That's a natural pairing. If Gillon or Frank Howard are in the game, they are not the off-guard. Battle would be. Battle is going to have the ball in his hands, probably 15 minutes a game. Who is going to play 2 guard with him? Maybe Gillon, who has a pretty decent shot from 3, but Gillon is more of a driver, and when the 2 of them are in the game together, that's more of a running team than a half court offense team. White is the answer.

When Gillon and Battle are in the game, if you are the opponent, you make them play half-court basketball and you zone them. If you play White with those 2 guards, then you are either sacrificing more outside shooting by leaving Lydon - maybe your best player - on the bench. Or you leave out Roberson, who is by far our best rounder, but who can't play the 5.

Lydon at the 5 last year did not work against good teams. That's why we were a .500 team in the ACC last year and we on the bubble. Because we had Tyler Freaking Lydon as our best center!

I think the ongoing, line-in-the-sand "argument" about where an uncommitted 5th year grad transfer hypothetically best fits in our zone is my favorite syracusefan message-board (bored??) argument of all-time.

I pretty much feel like I'm in a group therapy session and these "crazy" arguments make me feel normal

 

[JLine]

Just glad JB is coach, along with the rest of the great staff. Can only imagine the head scratching, and other things he may be doing if he was reading the thoughts of some here. Please commit AW, for the sanity of us all. Somewhere, anywhere.

 

[JLine]

And AW is not a guard...on D.

 

[Devilsadvocate]

As for the reason for AW3 dragging this on . . . I’m not sure I buy the argument that he (or his Dad) are negotiating for minutes, or time at 2G, or a starting position.

If that was the case, you’d think he be visiting other schools to gain some leverage. He has visited just two other schools in a month, and eliminated both of them within days. (That’s assuming he has eliminated Miami, which I haven’t heard beyond this board.)

 

[Budley]

Rico is a draft pick this year. He's already on the team. One sports magazine called him the 9th best player in college basketball the other day. He's not coming off the bench. It's beyond ridiculous to say so. Battle isn't going to be our starting PG, he's going to be the guy who shifts to PG when the starting PG goes out. Haven 't you watched JB's substitution patterns?

Where did the name Rico come from? Did he have issues with the Feds?

 

[JarHeadJim]

Where did the name Rico come from? Did he have issues with the Feds?

From the stash he sported last season!

 

[Nicknack]

As for the reason for AW3 dragging this on . . . I’m not sure I buy the argument that he (or his Dad) are negotiating for minutes, or time at 2G, or a starting position.

If that was the case, you’d think he be visiting other schools to gain some leverage. He has visited just two other schools in a month, and eliminated both of them within days. (That’s assuming he has eliminated Miami, which I haven’t heard beyond this board.)

Absolutely agree. I find it almost unthinkable that Boeheim would go through long, drawn out negotiations with a transfer (or any player for that matter).

 

[Nicknack]

Where did the name Rico come from? Did he have issues with the Feds?

Because he shares a resemblance with this guy...

 

[CusefanATL]

"We've got all our recruiting done and the players will be finishing up summer school, so they'll be going home. By the time they're ready to come back at the end of the month, Mike and I will be there."

 

[normaliswear]

"We've got all our recruiting done and the players will be finishing up summer school, so they'll be going home. By the time they're ready to come back at the end of the month, Mike and I will be there."

I guess that could be taken either way. As "we have everyone we're going to have." Or "All the recruiting we're going to do we've done. Now just waiting for the kid to commit. "

 

[Nicknack]

Oh good... another message that we all get a chance to crack. Come on AW, end this madness already!

 

[RF2044]

OK, Ryan, who does White take the minutes from - Lydon, the pre-season all-conference guy, or Roberson, our best rebounder since Rick Jackson? If we get White, he has to play at least 25-30 minutes a game, because he will be our best 3 point shooter other than maybe Lydon.

So if he's going to play most of those minutes at F, who sits, our best rebounder, or our next first round pick? I mean, you have got to be kidding me. Neither Tyler is going to play fewer than 30 minutes a game, and that's what would their limit would be with your suggested rotation. If he's going to primarily play forward, then he probably isn't coming here. That's not what he wants. At least that might explain his delay in committing.

He wants the chance to play significant minutes at the 2, and to work on those skills. If he doesn't get that opportunity - where we have a clear need, by the way - then he won't come here. Do you think that Malachi Richardson would have continued to play the 3 this year? White is looking for that role - being the third guard more than being the third forward. Michigan State told him that wanted him primarily at forward and he said "no thanks".

It's just like Tyus Battle's recruitment - if we didn't offer him time to be the lead guard, like Dion did, then he wasn't coming here. He could play on the wing at Duke, but that's not what he wanted, he wanted the ball in his hands, and that's why we got him and Duke didn't.

Who is it easier to take minutes from on this team next year - a senior forward, Tyler Roberson, who could average a double double this year after averaging 9 and 8 last year and us thinking he underachieved, or Frank Howard, who shot 28% from the floor last year and averaged less than 2 points a game? And you're calling me out as delusional?

P.S. - While we're at it, just look at JB's past personnel moves in terms of moving big guys to the 2 guard position. You may think of White as another James Southerland, but even Southerland got a try-out as a 2 guard his senior year. It didn't work out, but JB has done this so many times in the past.

Kueth Duany played the 2G on our championship team. Jason Cipolla played the 2G on the '96 team that made the Finals. Raf Addison was converted to 2G his senior year. Marius Janulis is yet another. Todd Burgan got some run at the 2G his senior year on the team when Jason Hart was a freshman. I could go on and on (and already have …).

Suffice it to say that if we get Andrew White this year, he will probably play the same amount of time at 2G as Tyus Battle plays at the point. That's a natural pairing. If Gillon or Frank Howard are in the game, they are not the off-guard. Battle would be. Battle is going to have the ball in his hands, probably 15 minutes a game. Who is going to play 2 guard with him? Maybe Gillon, who has a pretty decent shot from 3, but Gillon is more of a driver, and when the 2 of them are in the game together, that's more of a running team than a half court offense team. White is the answer.

When Gillon and Battle are in the game, if you are the opponent, you make them play half-court basketball and you zone them. If you play White with those 2 guards, then you are either sacrificing more outside shooting by leaving Lydon - maybe your best player - on the bench. Or you leave out Roberson, who is by far our best rounder, but who can't play the 5.

Lydon at the 5 last year did not work against good teams. That's why we were a .500 team in the ACC last year and we on the bubble. Because we had Tyler Freaking Lydon as our best center!

False choice. Lydon played the majority of his minutes last year at center, where he was physically overmatched defensively but did just fine offensively. Oh yeah--you've already decided that he won't play any minutes at the 5. Your last paragraph is complete bunk--that's not why we were a .500 team in the ACC, at all.

White isn't a 2. He doesn't have the skill set of a 2, or the lateral mobility of a 2 in our system. No amount of wishful thinking is going to make him a 2.

Battle is not going to play the point much, either, because at best he would be the third best lead guard on the team. When he was being recruited, circumstances were different. The staff believed that Mali would return, and the best way to get Mali / Battle on the court together was to play them both in the backcourt. But

One more ting--a Battle / White / Lydon wing triumvirate would be the worst ball handling / passing group we may have ever had. It wouldn't work in terms of complimentary skill sets, or against the press.

 

[supp]

Kueth Duany played the 2G on our championship team. Jason Cipolla played the 2G on the '96 team that made the Finals. Raf Addison was converted to 2G his senior year. Marius Janulis is yet another. Todd Burgan got some run at the 2G his senior year on the team when Jason Hart was a freshman. I could go on and on (and already have …).

People keep leaving out Gbinije. He couldn't chew gum and dribble when he got here. He wound up playing point for most of two years. Talking in absolutes about where this guy (if he comes) will play while slapping down other posters for weeks on end about it is a bit irritating if you ask me.

 

[Brooky03]

I don't know why it's so hard for some of you to believe that JB guarantees starting roles for certain players. Does that make him less pure or something? And it doesn't matter if he's said the exact opposite. He lies sometimes. It's OK.

Coleman has been the starting center since he walked through the door. Do you think he earned it? What about Fab Melo when he was a freshman? How do you think we got Battle to renege on Michigan? And yeah, that's probably what it took for Gillon to commit on the spot, and it's probably what it will take to land White.

It's meaningless anyway. JB's substitution patterns will tell you that much.

'pure' has nothing to do with it. Promising minutes to anybody other than a transcendent talent is just not a smart move in most cases. JB's smarter than that.

 

[RF2044]

People keep leaving out Gbinije. He couldn't chew gum and dribble when he got here. He wound up playing point for most of two years. Talking in absolutes about where this guy (if he comes) will play while slapping down other posters for weeks on end about it is a bit irritating if you ask me.

Here's what is really irritating--fanciful projections that have no basis in reality, logic, theory, or empirical evidence.

 

[Chicago44s]

Where did the name Rico come from? Did he have issues with the Feds?

It's the name of Tyler's Sweet 'Stache

Tyler Lydon has a mustache named 'Rico'; his Syracuse teammates split on the look

 

[KaiserUEO]

Where did the name Rico come from? Did he have issues with the Feds?

its because he can throw a pigskin a quarter mile...