Another Kaleb Thread...

[Scotch]

The discussion around Kaleb has rightly focused on the fact that he's very young, and has been thrust into major playing time at least a year before the coaching staff planned on. He's in a tough spot, and there are examples of other Syracuse players, especially at the PG position, that have taken major leaps between their freshman and sophomore years (Jason Hart, MCW). A lot of posters I respect sound really confident that Kaleb is going to make a similar leap, but I just don't see it.

He doesn't possess the handle, or mindset of a PG. He lacks difference-making quickness and size. He doesn't regularly beat his man off the dribble and get into the lane. His shooting - admittedly NOT the reason he was recruited - looks below average at best (in terms of form, quickness of release, etc.). The decision-making is tough, because that's where freshman struggle the most, but wow. The kid has a long way to go in almost every area.

I don't think it's unfair to expect a higher level of play, even from a freshman, at this point. College basketball is getting younger and younger, and freshman are contributing big, effective minutes across the country. Comparisons to Ennis are unfair - that kid played like a college senior from Day 1. But look back at Triche's freshman year. The kid ran the point solidly, he made smart decisions, effectively handled the ball, and regularly got into the lane and made plays. Billy Edelin was even more effective as a freshman. And we're not talking about lottery picks here. If we were, we can go back to Flynn's fantastic freshman year - you could see the quickness. Or MCW, even in limited playing time, you could see the flashes. You could see the size and athleticism. I realize I'm comparing him to some pretty special players, but we're Syracuse, we have a standard of special players starting for us.

The comparison that seems to make the most sense at this point is Scoop. Scoop had a rough freshman year, and I honestly doubted if he would ever be a contributor for us. I was wrong. But I've also seen Josh Wright come through the program. I'm not ready to call the kid Josh Wright, but I'm certainly not ready to call the kid a 4-year starter either. He's young, it's early, but that doesn't mean it's crazy to have concerns about Kaleb at this point in time. I wish I was seeing more flashes. He seems like a great kid with a great work ethic, and we can all agree on hoping he figures it out.

 

[moqui]

I'm more interested in how he performs over the last 9 games of the regular season than the first 9. it's really just about cutting down on the turnovers, and I don't think its unreasonable to think he'll be more used to the speed of the game by mid-February such that his TO rate will be 20-30% lower than it is now.

 

[Orangezoo]

He is definitely no Josh Wright. He also is a different type of PG than we have seen in a while. He is more in the mold of a UConn PG in that he is out of control at times but shows some flashiness and ability to score. That turn around in the lane was pretty. The turnovers including the one where he just dribbled it off himself was not. Lets also not forget he really often has few options as to where to go with the ball. This last game he had a ton more options than earlier in the year and hit a few but still struggled mightily. A consistently aggressive and potent Cooney will go a long ways the rest of the way. Of course trev will have off games but if he keeps attacking and picking his spots/setting his feet, things will open up some more for Kaleb.

Also he is really wide eyed right now. He sees the court like a frosh PG not ready for primetime. Head down, not seeing the play before it happens etc. This past game was the first game I felt that we could have let him sit a while during the meat of the game to just watch. If mike G hadn't gotten hurt that could have been a great chance for him to just sit and watch so he can see things from a diff perspective.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Man you guys are a tough crowd. My guess is that comes from having back to back to back first round picks at guard, one right after the other after the other.

Kaleb is not Dion and he's not MCW and he's not Ennis. He is a freshman for God sakes and was never recruited to start from day one. JB has thrown him in the pool and told him to sink or swim. He is our only point guard and all things considered he's done pretty well. And he will get better this year. All he needs to do is relax a little and let the game come to him. Once he does that, the TOs will come down.

And for the record, I absolutely think its unfair to expect the same level of play from Kaleb as you saw the last two years...he's a work in progress...

 

[realorange]

There is a coach on the bench who as a freshman, used to drive into the lane without knowing what he would do when he got there. Red turned out to be a pretty damn good player.

 

[pearl31]

The discussion around Kaleb has rightly focused on the fact that he's very young, and has been thrust into major playing time at least a year before the coaching staff planned on. He's in a tough spot, and there are examples of other Syracuse players, especially at the PG position, that have taken major leaps between their freshman and sophomore years (Jason Hart, MCW). A lot of posters I respect sound really confident that Kaleb is going to make a similar leap, but I just don't see it.

He doesn't possess the handle, or mindset of a PG. He lacks difference-making quickness and size. He doesn't regularly beat his man off the dribble and get into the lane. His shooting - admittedly NOT the reason he was recruited - looks below average at best (in terms of form, quickness of release, etc.). The decision-making is tough, because that's where freshman struggle the most, but wow. The kid has a long way to go in almost every area.

I don't think it's unfair to expect a higher level of play, even from a freshman, at this point. College basketball is getting younger and younger, and freshman are contributing big, effective minutes across the country. Comparisons to Ennis are unfair - that kid played like a college senior from Day 1. But look back at Triche's freshman year. The kid ran the point solidly, he made smart decisions, effectively handled the ball, and regularly got into the lane and made plays. Billy Edelin was even more effective as a freshman. And we're not talking about lottery picks here. If we were, we can go back to Flynn's fantastic freshman year - you could see the quickness. Or MCW, even in limited playing time, you could see the flashes. You could see the size and athleticism. I realize I'm comparing him to some pretty special players, but we're Syracuse, we have a standard of special players starting for us.

The comparison that seems to make the most sense at this point is Scoop. Scoop had a rough freshman year, and I honestly doubted if he would ever be a contributor for us. I was wrong. But I've also seen Josh Wright come through the program. I'm not ready to call the kid Josh Wright, but I'm certainly not ready to call the kid a 4-year starter either. He's young, it's early, but that doesn't mean it's crazy to have concerns about Kaleb at this point in time. I wish I was seeing more flashes. He seems like a great kid with a great work ethic, and we can all agree on hoping he figures it out.

ok, um, you had to start a fresh thread to really showcase your disdain for the kid? couldn't stand it being "lost" in one of the other threads?

 

[doc05]

Man -- it's 9 games into his college career, being forced into a starting role he wasn't intended to have in the first place. Kaleb was never a one and done type prospect. He is going to be a great PG for this team, but he needs time. Give the kid a break.

 

[CaptainJ]

Maybe when he understands the political undertones of the united we stand gear, he will realize he is playing for America against whatever country we are invading that month and his consciousness and game will rise to a new level when he realizes he is now partially responsible for fighting the war on "terror". If only the soviets had the benefit of capitalism helping to draw people off the fence into groupthink.

I decided it was time to spice things up a bit so I can tell some of these threads apart from each other.

 

[Scotch]

ok, um, you had to start a fresh thread to really showcase your disdain for the kid? couldn't stand it being "lost" in one of the other threads?

Yep, disdain. Good post bro.

 

[bevosu]

At this point it's obvious that many think that it isn't the time to question whether KJ will eventually develop into a solid point guard.

I don't have any problem with people having their doubts. I do have a problem with people saying he definitely will or definitely won't.

Personally I think he'll be a decent college level guard. Not sure his position is PG?

 

[Brooky03]

Yep, disdain. Good post bro.

Disdain might be a strong word, but you clearly don't like him and don't have much, if any, faith that he's going to get better, or good enough to be the starting PG we need. Many on this board, or just in general, would agree this is unwarranted.

Some of your criticisms were a little inaccurate, too, IMO. His handle is shaky in certain situations, but he can beat his guy off the bounce and he does have really good athleticism/quickness. He's just out of his element right now and trying to piece it all together. His jumpshot is fine, as well; I haven't found any glaring weaknesses with it from a form/release standpoint.

 

[moqui]

I'm more interested in how he performs over the last 9 games of the regular season than the first 9. it's really just about cutting down on the turnovers, and I don't think its unreasonable to think he'll be more used to the speed of the game by mid-February such that his TO rate will be 20-30% lower than it is now.

I'm going to self-correct here: it's not just the turnovers, it's the defense, too. Kaleb doesn't fully grasp his responsibilities in the zone right now, and that is nearly as big a problem as the turnovers. He's not alone in this, of course. Roberson is frequently out of position, and though McCullough is pretty good when he's playing the wing, he's completely lost when he has to play the middle of the zone.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I'm going to self-correct here: it's not just the turnovers, it's the defense, too. Kaleb doesn't fully grasp his responsibilities in the zone right now, and that is nearly as big a problem as the turnovers. He's not alone in this, of course. Roberson is frequently out of position, and though McCullough is pretty good when he's playing the wing, he's completely lost when he has to play the middle of the zone.

Chris also has lapses from the wing. St Johns beat us because Greene hit 3 wide open shots from Chris's side of the floor.

Lapses on D happen. You're also not going to hold teams to zero points. They are going to score. But we haven't helped ourselves at times.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I haven't seen much emotion from Kaleb, either.

 

[pfister1]

I'm going to self-correct here: it's not just the turnovers, it's the defense, too. Kaleb doesn't fully grasp his responsibilities in the zone right now, and that is nearly as big a problem as the turnovers. He's not alone in this, of course. Roberson is frequently out of position, and though McCullough is pretty good when he's playing the wing, he's completely lost when he has to play the middle of the zone.

Kaleb's shortcomings are absolutely compounded by the shortcomings of those around him. This is probably the weakest group of players (at the particular point in their development where they are today) that we've put on the floor together in a long time. It's not that they are terrible or don't have potential its just that their individual shortcoming aren't being hidden by the next guy, because the next guy has significant shortcoming of his own.

 

[NineOneSeven]

ok, um, you had to start a fresh thread to really showcase your disdain for the kid? couldn't stand it being "lost" in one of the other threads?

True or False: OP presented an opinion on a sports forum that is open to opinions.

 

[pearl31]

True or False: OP presented an opinion on a sports forum that is open to opinions.

True or False: OP could have utilized any of the other "Why Kaleb is no good" threads to express an opinion

 

[bballbeadle]

Maybe when he understands the political undertones of the united we stand gear, he will realize he is playing for America against whatever country we are invading that month and his consciousness and game will rise to a new level when he realizes he is now partially responsible for fighting the war on "terror". If only the soviets had the benefit of capitalism helping to draw people off the fence into groupthink.

I decided it was time to spice things up a bit so I can tell some of these threads apart from each other.

Ha ha! I thought your post was wry. I don't like how we conflate any game with war, even though I know we have "war games." At any rate, friend, you are distracting from the intent of the post, and so am I. Yes, all of our players should be aware every second that if they lose, the terrorists win!

 

[tee1222]

True or False: OP could have utilized any of the other "Why Kaleb is no good" threads to express an opinion

I'm going with my instincts on this one and say True.

 

[Scotch]

True or False: OP could have utilized any of the other "Why Kaleb is no good" threads to express an opinion

My intent was to have a different conversation around Kaleb than previous threads - essentially, that the fans that are worried about his upside have the same right to their opinion as the fans that are convinced he will be a 4-year starter for us. It's way to early to know, but projecting is part of the fun. Probably could have communicated that in another thread. Good policing.

 

[tee1222]

I'm going with my instincts on this one and say True.

JarHeadJim - you're on a run bro. I can tell. Do your thing that you do!

 

[pearl31]

My intent was to have a different conversation around Kaleb than previous threads - essentially, that the fans that are worried about his upside have the same right to their opinion as the fans that are convinced he will be a 4-year starter for us. It's way to early to know, but projecting is part of the fun. Probably could have communicated that in another thread. Good policing.

Didn't mean to "police" - just felt like too many are unfairly piling on the kid, and have been doing so for the past several weeks - not sure why new threads are needed to rehash the same criticisms of a freshman trying to find his way